Pricing revisited

What if the birthday party had photographers, catering, planners, etc? Would you charge more? Would you walk out?

So you provide two DJs for weddings, but not for parties (with the same equipment and number of guests)?

What about 8 hour parties? Most wedding receptions don't last that long, but the last birthday party I did did.

Why does a wedding involve more music research?

Mike

So even if it is the EXACT same event, you charge a different price because it is called a wedding instead of a party.

Mike

I see no explaination about why a wedding takes more music research than a birthday party.

In any event, music research should be up to you as a DJ and not a billable hour.

After all I don't bill clients for my years of college when I was doing lighting research.

Mike

As stated earlier, part time or full time should not have ANY bearing on what you charge. It makes even less sense to bring that up to a client that your fee is affected by your status as a full or part timer. You should charge what people are willing to pay you to keep you as busy as you want to be.

Very few of our events require 20 hours of time. We have detailed info on as many venues as we can. 3 big binders worth. Not only does it help us in planning, it's a great selling tool at meetings when i client sees pictures of us at the venue they chose. So very rarely do we have to do site visits.

I don't tell clients how much time it will take to prepare for their event. I make sure they understand that we will do everything necessary to make sure we are prepared and ready to give them the evening what they want. Some events simply take more planning and some take less.

I also don't want clients to feel like they are paying me to prepare. It's my job to be prepared. We charge for the event. Yes, preparation is needed for formal events, so fewer discounts are available for those. I'm guessing, but if I told clients I'm spending all those hours preparing, they would start wondering if I am being honest, even if I was spending that much time preparing.

GoodKnightDJ said:

You must not be as anal about details as I am.

If I'm working on their event then I'm on the clock. If you are not getting paid for every moment you work on an event then you need to revisit your pricing structure.

In all sincerity, my suggestion is to log every moment you spend on each event by event type. You'd be surprised at how much time you really do spend. There will be events that are less and events that are more so average them out.

I've had weddings that came out to twelve hours and others that came out to over thirty. It all depends on how much hand-holding the client requires. My average over a one year period was 20 hours and that is what I based it on.

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I approach it the same way Tom... billable time put in for the event. It's easier to justify to a client a smaller dollar amount over x-hours (all that goes INTO and event) than it is the total "DJ Bill" for "4 hrs" of service. They'll balk more at paying "$250/hr" than they will at "$50/hr."

Its all semantics - All of us - Hank included - are charging for that time - some just doesn't spell it out, or maybe even realize it themselves

Hank Davidson said:

Oh, you'll see that I never denied spending time on an event. I just don't view it as "chargeable". If I take a job, I take all that comes with it. Whether that's 20 hours or 50 hours makes no difference to me. After I find out what the client wants me to do when I walk in the door, that's what I charge them for.

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Again, all semantics - if you wouldn't be DOING that activity if you didnt HAVE the job - its part of the job, whether from home before the event or not - and something you feel, at some level, that you are being compensated justly for, or you would not continue to do it, or you would raise your rates to the point you felt this way.

You just don't go "so far as to say" that your rates do in fact compensate you for this time.

Esoteric said:

Interesting.... So you make all your clients pay for your inefficiency and for the neurotic clients that might take up more time? I need to become a DJ. Or at least adopt your pricing policy. *lol*

Mike

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Nah. The way I do it anyway, not speaking for Tom, is calculate your rates based on an average of time invested. You end up not spending as much time on some jobs, and a little more on others - so it evens out.

Any kind of work that is priced per-bid or per-package is formulated in this way. Otherwise it would have to be straight hourly.

I used to be in Landscape contracting for example, and the price per-foot for an 8' section of redwood fence, or for a 36" retaining wall, is figured according to a reasonable average as to how long the labor will take to complete the item.

If the boss comes in and squeeks it out, you make a little money. If the new kid on the crew ends up doing it and takes two times as long as they should have to do it, you eat that loss.

Same thing in figuring pricing for dj jobs and the pre-event process that goes into it.

Scott Hanna said:

I don't tell clients how much time it will take to prepare for their event.

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But that doesn't mean you aren't being COMPENSATED for that time - and we all know that. And nothing wrong with that!

Scott Hanna said:

I also don't want clients to feel like they are paying me to prepare.

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Okay, fine. They don't "feel" that way, but they are nonetheless.

Scott Hanna said:

It's my job to be prepared.

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Right.... a JOB, ie something you are being compensated for.

Scott Hanna said:

We charge for the event.

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And what goes into it....

Scott Hanna said:

but if I told clients I'm spending all those hours preparing, they would start wondering if I am being honest, even if I was spending that much time preparing.

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Okay, so we don't "tell them" they are paying for these things.... but really they ARE. And really, we all feel we are being adequately compensated FOR doing these things or we wouldn't be EMPLOYING OURSELVES to DO THEM!

A whole thread dedicated to trying to argue a distinction that doesn't exist is silly.

We all get compensated for what we do - before and after the event.

Bottom line is that in our business, there are TWO kinds of expenses:

Fixed: ie not dependent upon any one event - costs just to exists as a business and do business.

Variable: Costs that are incurred PER JOB that are billed to and covered by the job in question. GUESS what THIS includes ladies and gents.... That's right...

PLANNING for an event! Planning for a single event and the paperwork for it are NOT "FIXED" expenses. ie - you do not "need to do" Mr. & Mrs. Smith's wedding itinerary on your computer to exist as XYZ DJ Company - No - it is something you are only doing FOR that ONE JOB - it is a VARIABLE EXPENSE that gets billed out to that job, because it's time spent that you WOULDN'T BE SPENDING WHERE IT NOT for that ONE JOB!

Again, with the landscaping analogy, our bid for any job included the overhead costs which included the secretary who fielded the prospective clients' calls before they ever signed with us. Of COURSE we were charging enough to cover the costs of doing business and what goes into the job "behind the scenes" at the office. To think a business wouldn't is absurd, and to think dj's should be any different is just plain weird.

Whether or not we tell people on a handout or on our site that we are billing them for planning time is irrelevant - we are, so let's stop being silly and move on!

Hank Davidson said:

Huge multi-ops aside, this is the kind of thing that makes me chuckle. So, basically we're talking about a big chunk of that time being "homework". I think it's fair to say that most of us prepare from our homes, yes?

Do you think John and Jane Doe are getting paid for the hours they spend at home preparing for work? Take a look at the post counts here each day. We should be thankful when we get something else to pass the time with.

Honestly, it's my job to prepare and be prepared to flip those speakers on for five or six hours. I certainly don't expect to be compensated for every conversation, songlist or agenda. Let's not argue commuting either. Some of my friends and family have to drive two hours plus to and from work everyday and guess what? The clock is only punched when they enter and exit the building.

I must have been doing something terribly wrong for the last 20 years, because I have never spent 20 "clockable" hours on an event.

:sqerr:

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Hank,
It does not sound to me like you are taking advantage of your legal tax deductions. While you are throwing money down the drain at Uncle Sam can I send you my address so you can send me some of that unwanted money too? At least I'll send you a Thank You Note when I receive it!

Not hijacking the thread but this is along the same lines of computing charges. Like going to a mechanic. You don't actually pay for the actual time he spent fixing the engine. The time computed for the charge takes into consideration bathroom breaks, coffee breaks etc.
For instance, earlier today I went out to do an Art Installation for a friend who owns an Art Gallery. It was two paintings and a 9' Leather Tapestry wall hanging. The minute I saw what was involved, I knew I would charge for three hours. I fully expected to be out of there in no more than two hours. It took almost 30 minutes to get everything up to this Hi Rise Condo. Sad part is that it actually took me 3 hours because of some complications with the Leather piece. Had this project been 6 Large framed pieces I would have charged the same but definitely finished in less than an hour and a half. Going rate per hour for Installing and hanging Art in the retail market is $125.00 per hour. The Client will pay $375.00 and I will take 60% because I charge my Designers and Art Dealers a wholesale rate when they send me their business.
The point is, I do not itemize what I am doing, I just give them the final client a flat rate which takes into account the time I leave home until I return.

Sounds To Go said:

Nah. The way I do it anyway, not speaking for Tom, is calculate your rates based on an average of time invested. You end up not spending as much time on some jobs, and a little more on others - so it evens out.

Any kind of work that is priced per-bid or per-package is formulated in this way. Otherwise it would have to be straight hourly.

I used to be in Landscape contracting for example, and the price per-foot for an 8' section of redwood fence, or for a 36" retaining wall, is figured according to a reasonable average as to how long the labor will take to complete the item.

If the boss comes in and squeeks it out, you make a little money. If the new kid on the crew ends up doing it and takes two times as long as they should have to do it, you eat that loss.

Same thing in figuring pricing for dj jobs and the pre-event process that goes into it.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I do the same thing, but I know how long a job takes, I also offer the option of paying an hourly rate. But i know that job A takes me 10 hours and job B takes me 15 hours, Client A pays less than client B. It is still a package deal, but just a different package.

I have noticed that photographers work this way as well. Makes me wonder why DJs do not?

In dealing with wedding dealers I have just noticed that when you add the word wedding on, people's prices suddenly change. So far this has happened to me with photographers, caterers, and florists. It makes no sense to me.

Mike

I dunno .....

Part timers are more concerned with "billable hours" because that's how they are paid at their other job. Career DJs are more concerened with the amount they are making per event and the relationship with the number of events with the total gross/net per year.

I have no problem with what people charge. (more or less) I can't change that. I also can't change another person's reasons why they charge what they charge.

Price for me has always been a reflection of "demand" or the lack there of.

Tom:
You seem to be defending what you use to do. Why would anyone but your clients care about what you use to do. No one here is using your model as a part time DJ for their business so there is no justification needed. Whatever you use to charge clients what your business between you and the clients. And as you stated they didn't have to hire you, they can move on.

I don't defend my prices I only explain them. And the only people who need explanation is the clients. Much like Hank and the others my prices are based on first my talent and reputation as to what i provide for the 5 hours they will see me. It's also based on the average time spent on putting together a wedding. Some weddings maybe 8 hours total while others might me 15. I think spending 20 hours is a bit out there but whatever the clients want to believe is up to them.

I quote my price on what the job. If the client wants 2 meetings it's the same price. It the client wants 5 meetings I don't charge them extra. If I need to do a site survey (which is very rare) it's on the house. I won't however charge the same price for a birthday party as for a wedding. Unless of course they just want me to show up and play music. No planning, no pre-request lists, no meetings, and no booking a year in advance. And there is always a possibility of another DJ handling the event.