After looking at the Bose site and the F1 vids, I'm not sure I like how the F1 is mounted over it's sub. It looks to me like it just sort of sits on top of the integral handle in the sub with a very shallow guide and no "depth" so to speak to hold it in place like a traditional 35mm hole mount does. I know the F1 top also has the standard pole mount built in for mounting over traditional poles or stands, it's just that judging by the vids when it's shown being mounted on top of it's own F1 sub, it appears that anything more than a slight bump and it will fall right off, no?
New Speakers are HERE! (Bose F1)
- Thread starter djmagicmoments
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Entirely possible that it's 'too loud' - most DJs play too loud.
Operator error or ignorance. Deaf DJs.
Too loud will cause fatigue regardless of the source - L1, one speaker, a concert or jackhammer.
It's human nature I suppose to get used to a given volume then want to turn it up. If during setup you know what level is 100db on the dance floor or other listing location, then you know when to stop. IMO 95 is plenty, but I want to know where 100 is just in case they want it louder yet (happens 5% of the time).
I've never been asked to turn it down, don't drive the dancers to the far side of the floor, and don't leave with a headache.
The worse experience was at Carnegie Music Hall in Pgh (scott may know it). Built 100 years ago it's all marble, columns, walls, floor...the DJ that night, no clue who he was (they actually) was the only time I had to leave the room during a reception..more than 1o or 15 minutes and my head was ready to explode.
Operator issue, not a gear issue (i dont' think in this case)
So you'd rec two? or?
Maybe I'm the douche bag in this group but the next time I use a db meter to measure sound volume before or during an event to determine loudness will be the first (except the one time the police came on a neighbor's complaint and I proved we were well within code.)
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You are incorrect about fatigue being just a matter of volume. The design of conical or point source makes a dramatic difference. The fact that you don't have the issue is a tribute to your personal skills that are not possessed by the majority. The line array properties are very forgiving to the ignorant or forgetful.
I always use two...ALWAYS. My backup system is also part of main system. Should one side crap out, the second will carry the day however my heart will be pounding for the remainder of the event.
DJ TJ : The F1-812 / F1 Subwoofer mounting system is solid. It is extremely stable, no more or less likely to fall when crashed into than a speaker on a tripod. In the F1 bracket scenario, it has less distance to fall than if on a tripod. For the first 10 uses, the connection of the F1-812 to the bracket was a sonofabee to release, taking two of us to wiggle and wiggle the 812 until it came loose. Now it's tight but one-manable.
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You are incorrect about fatigue being just a matter of volume. The design of conical or point source makes a dramatic difference. The fact that you don't have the issue is a tribute to your personal skills that are not possessed by the majority. The line array properties are very forgiving to the ignorant or forgetful.
I always use two...ALWAYS. My backup system is also part of main system. Should one side crap out, the second will carry the day however my heart will be pounding for the remainder of the event.
DJ TJ : The F1-812 / F1 Subwoofer mounting system is solid. It is extremely stable, no more or less likely to fall when crashed into than a speaker on a tripod. In the F1 bracket scenario, it has less distance to fall than if on a tripod. For the first 10 uses, the connection of the F1-812 to the bracket was a sonofabee to release, taking two of us to wiggle and wiggle the 812 until it came loose. Now it's tight but one-manable.
Well I'll have to join you in your douche baggery aside from for my own entertainment and information I've never used a db meter at any event either
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It has very little to do with volume. Although an array helps disperse the sound better equalization of the room is the important factor
I'm trying not to get sucked into this, but there comes a point when I must. Line arrays do not posses magical or mystical properties and in fact they can be a poor choice.
Here is one of the major problems with a line array -
Near field there are huge phase problems between the top/bottom speakers, and the middle speakers, vs a point source (i.e. traditional loudspeaker).
You can electrically correct (time delay) for only one distance. The above is exactly why they should be placed as far as possible from the audience - they usually should be setup behind you.
Next is the problem of excessive horizontal dispersion in small or narrow rooms, which leads to too much reflected energy off of the side walls, further diffusing the sound.
A properly designed point source loudspeaker can often sound superior - and I hinted at it back in the "Is that Bose?" thread. What is that? It is easier to describe what is not a properly designed loudspeaker, because there are so many of them. IMHO, absolutely nothing has more tarnished the public's perception of "DJ sound" than the typical two-way 15" loudspeaker. Nowhere in the high fidelity/audiophile world will you see 15" drivers crossed over to mids or tweeters above 500 hz, yet it is rampant in the DJ industry. There are those here who object to the physics behind this, so I won't go into the "why" (they certainly don't act like a point source), just let me say that, especially at higher volumes, most of them do not sound good, leading to listener fatigue (DSP on newer models has helped, but it can only correct for so much). I have been at far too many weddings (as a guest) when it was off to the bathroom for tissue paper to stick in my ears, when the DJ started cranking it.
No wonder the name "Bose" influences people, but just because a Bose line source speaker might sound better than a poorly designed conventional speaker does not mean they are a panacea for all situations. They are just another tool in the DJ's arsenal.
Here is one of the major problems with a line array -
Near field there are huge phase problems between the top/bottom speakers, and the middle speakers, vs a point source (i.e. traditional loudspeaker).
You can electrically correct (time delay) for only one distance. The above is exactly why they should be placed as far as possible from the audience - they usually should be setup behind you.
Next is the problem of excessive horizontal dispersion in small or narrow rooms, which leads to too much reflected energy off of the side walls, further diffusing the sound.
A properly designed point source loudspeaker can often sound superior - and I hinted at it back in the "Is that Bose?" thread. What is that? It is easier to describe what is not a properly designed loudspeaker, because there are so many of them. IMHO, absolutely nothing has more tarnished the public's perception of "DJ sound" than the typical two-way 15" loudspeaker. Nowhere in the high fidelity/audiophile world will you see 15" drivers crossed over to mids or tweeters above 500 hz, yet it is rampant in the DJ industry. There are those here who object to the physics behind this, so I won't go into the "why" (they certainly don't act like a point source), just let me say that, especially at higher volumes, most of them do not sound good, leading to listener fatigue (DSP on newer models has helped, but it can only correct for so much). I have been at far too many weddings (as a guest) when it was off to the bathroom for tissue paper to stick in my ears, when the DJ started cranking it.
No wonder the name "Bose" influences people, but just because a Bose line source speaker might sound better than a poorly designed conventional speaker does not mean they are a panacea for all situations. They are just another tool in the DJ's arsenal.
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Interesting..you use meters, care in recording, cabling, pick the best gear..but when it comes to the actual performance..you go by ear, don't measure anything. Interesting.
It may be because in past lives (careers) I was a mechanic and some things need measured. I started editing pictures on computers before there was calibration gear so I learned to use photoshop to white/color balance pictures by the numbers. I also know that the print should be the same color as what I took a picture of - the brides pink flowers need to be pink in all the pictures regardless of the lighting/color of the light source where the picture was taken
So I have dB meter but i've checked it against a free app on my phone - easy enough to walk around with my phone and use it and my ears to judge the results of my meters, speaker placement, speaker settings, etc.
I too always bring backup, but (knock on wood) have not a failure that affected a performance (had an amp fall off a cart..but I had backup).
It may be because in past lives (careers) I was a mechanic and some things need measured. I started editing pictures on computers before there was calibration gear so I learned to use photoshop to white/color balance pictures by the numbers. I also know that the print should be the same color as what I took a picture of - the brides pink flowers need to be pink in all the pictures regardless of the lighting/color of the light source where the picture was taken
So I have dB meter but i've checked it against a free app on my phone - easy enough to walk around with my phone and use it and my ears to judge the results of my meters, speaker placement, speaker settings, etc.
I too always bring backup, but (knock on wood) have not a failure that affected a performance (had an amp fall off a cart..but I had backup).
Hmm...
I've been a photog at well over 100 weddings so I've seen MANY MANY djs. Most play too loud, some not loud enough but that's more rare.
My volume is the same every time - or can be. I know, i measure it. 5 hours later and my head is pounding from song after song, i'm tired, etc - I know it's not too loud.
Bands do sound checks..i just figured to get a measurement was, well, what pros do.
I have a light meter for photography - besides the one in the camera. And I use it often even though I can get close by eye - close isn't close enough when a client is paying you, IMO.
I don't have to guess what 95db is..i know. I won't be tempted to turn it up to the clip lights start - because I KNOW that's 120db on my system at 1m and it's gonna drive the listener's ears into the pain category.
Seen MANY other Djs do it. I don't know if it's ego, if htey figure too loud is what they hired a DJ to play, or ignorance.
If you're hurting your customers - if they're ears are ringing on the way home or the next day that's not the way to get referrals.
I've been a photog at well over 100 weddings so I've seen MANY MANY djs. Most play too loud, some not loud enough but that's more rare.
My volume is the same every time - or can be. I know, i measure it. 5 hours later and my head is pounding from song after song, i'm tired, etc - I know it's not too loud.
Bands do sound checks..i just figured to get a measurement was, well, what pros do.
I have a light meter for photography - besides the one in the camera. And I use it often even though I can get close by eye - close isn't close enough when a client is paying you, IMO.
I don't have to guess what 95db is..i know. I won't be tempted to turn it up to the clip lights start - because I KNOW that's 120db on my system at 1m and it's gonna drive the listener's ears into the pain category.
Seen MANY other Djs do it. I don't know if it's ego, if htey figure too loud is what they hired a DJ to play, or ignorance.
If you're hurting your customers - if they're ears are ringing on the way home or the next day that's not the way to get referrals.
I think a big part of that is being located BEHIND your drivers. It's pretty easy to think that it's not loud enough when you're vantage point is not what the crowd's is.
I think so too - but you can learn what the volume level should be, even when behind the speakers. Walking around the room also tells you this.
Did you carry your db meter when you were working photography?
Bands do sound checks but I have yet to see any one of them walking around with a db meter to make sure it's not too loud. Most bar bands are in the 100+db range easily some more. Large venue concerts are over 100db regularly and depending on the style of music 115db wouldn't be abnormal
How could you possible KNOW that without measurements each time?
I'm not going to say I never walk the room I do several times during the night. I do as many gigs as I want to do most years and 85%+ are referral. Either they are stone deaf or I have a pretty good grasp of how loud I'm playing
I walk around the room. I also watch the crowd. Their body language will tell you that it's too loud.
I dropped off something for another DJ once, during dinner. I could easily see that everyone was bunched at the other end of the venue. His music was louder than my music is when Dancing. I asked him if he thought it was loud. He said no. I said did you wonder why everyone is as far away from you as possible?....and the bar is near you. He said no, he had not
I dropped off something for another DJ once, during dinner. I could easily see that everyone was bunched at the other end of the venue. His music was louder than my music is when Dancing. I asked him if he thought it was loud. He said no. I said did you wonder why everyone is as far away from you as possible?....and the bar is near you. He said no, he had not
I've had several times at the end of the event what ever it be that guest have come up to me and said nice choice of music and the volume was perfect
Then unchain yourself and go for a walk...listen. get a meter in your phone and measure it.
i go walk around, listen - before anyone gets there and once it's full. I observe the people.
I remember one wedding (bose l1 speakers BTW) in a large venue and there were 4 older ladies dancing on the far side of the room and everyone else was outside. in the august heat and humidity.
WAY too loud and harsh .
An april wedding last year another DJ had lower end gear (behringer sub and older wood/carpet powered EV tops, corded mid ) and again, most people went outside -in the rain. I was photog there and I asked them sitting outside 'why aren't you in there dancing?' - 'too damned loud'.
Both dj's complained 'i don't know why they won't dance..must not be a dancing crowd'...uh huh.
i go walk around, listen - before anyone gets there and once it's full. I observe the people.
I remember one wedding (bose l1 speakers BTW) in a large venue and there were 4 older ladies dancing on the far side of the room and everyone else was outside. in the august heat and humidity.
WAY too loud and harsh .
An april wedding last year another DJ had lower end gear (behringer sub and older wood/carpet powered EV tops, corded mid ) and again, most people went outside -in the rain. I was photog there and I asked them sitting outside 'why aren't you in there dancing?' - 'too damned loud'.
Both dj's complained 'i don't know why they won't dance..must not be a dancing crowd'...uh huh.
over the past 4 years i have measured DJs and live music. And my car stereo. And in the past have worked places with noise regulations to meet (OSHA). You don't need a big honkin db meter - there are phone apps that are pretty close to a good db meter in accuracy.
I still have my hearing - all of it.
I've yet to find a factory car stereo that goes above 90db. I suppose one may be out there. Why would a car company risk being sued for making a customer deaf?
Go turn up your car loud and drive 8 hours..or even 4..you'll get out and have hearing issues for abit. Again, OSHA regs are not pulled out of thin air.
I've played 2 venues here (outdoor) that have db limits.
I've had one event where the crowd wanted it louder than I could do (when they stand 1 foot from the speaker, and you turn it all the way up and they stay there..good indication), and only one where they asked me to turn it up. I've had many where they compliment me on the volume ' thanks for not playing so loud'.
And in 10+ years as a wedding photog i've overheard MANY complaints from guests about the music being too loud.
Not to worry, we hear our complaints about photographers too. Specifically when they say they are done at 8:30 and want to get everything done in 20 minutes. Or, they leave as soon as the dancing get started. I will NEVER EVER recommend a photographer like that. I hardly ever see quality pictures of the dancing portion of the night. They always say, "my time is up". Granted, I understand it's been a long day... TOO BAD!
So, I bet you have heard quite a few noise complaints... I assure you that when the bride comes up and says "can you believe my photographer left and the fun is just getting started", as much as I want to say that you (the bride) booked them, I just smile and agree.
The ONLY photographers I recommend are the ones that stay until they get the ENTIRE night for the bride & groom. Just another reason the bride & groom appreciate my advice.
It's no wonder so many dj's are bringing their cameras and taking pictures for the bride & grooms. It's funny that photographers complain that everyone with a digital camera is "stealing their weddings". Here's a thought... BE THERE TILL THE END! So, you're tired on Sunday. We all are!
So, I bet you have heard quite a few noise complaints... I assure you that when the bride comes up and says "can you believe my photographer left and the fun is just getting started", as much as I want to say that you (the bride) booked them, I just smile and agree.
The ONLY photographers I recommend are the ones that stay until they get the ENTIRE night for the bride & groom. Just another reason the bride & groom appreciate my advice.
It's no wonder so many dj's are bringing their cameras and taking pictures for the bride & grooms. It's funny that photographers complain that everyone with a digital camera is "stealing their weddings". Here's a thought... BE THERE TILL THE END! So, you're tired on Sunday. We all are!
Sound Meter - Android Apps on Google Play is the one I use. On my new phone it maxes (harware limit) at 100db. My last phone would go to 120. Something to be said for a cheap phone I guess? LOLwhat's a db meter?
YUUPPPP. all the weddings I do there is something special I do for the bride and groom and not once was the photog there