Looking to upgrade my PA/Speakers

Bigtan said:

I'm a college student that can't work because I have way too much school work to do. So, I have no income. I can only work with the money that I sell my B52's for, which will be around $500

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Full time college student at one time as well, so I know where you are coming from. I had to do the same thing with huge speakers, at the time I had a Chevy malibu, def not big enough. I solved the problem by renting a uhaul when I had gigs. Granted its not the prettiest, but it served its purpose. I saved enough to get better equipment, and a van to haul it with. It took two years but was well worth the wait. Take the advice of the people here, they aren't trying to bash you, but rather guide you in the direction that will lead you to financial success in the future with this industry. If you go the way you want, you might not be in the industry for long. I have been doing this for 17 years now, and have seen dj companies come and go, mainly, because they tried to do the gear on the cheap. Clients do notice this, and in the end isn't worth it.

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Okay...

TIME OUT!

Right now, I want those of you who have ever been in his situation, trying to DJ in college on a budget, to raise your hands. If you can't raise your hand, then get out of this thread and go find someone else to harass.

The kid is looking for some help, albeit on a shoestring budget, but I sincerely think none of you have stepped foot on a college campus in quite some time.

JT, you're damned lucky to go to a college open mic night and find much more than a guitar amp, let alone actual speakers and a mixer.

As for the gear, you can only get what you can afford. Who cares what name is on the damn amp or speakers, as long as it can do the job that is required of it. After all, everyone starts somewhere.

There's one thing about DJing in college, as a college student...you have to be creative with what gear you can afford and if you're creative enough, you'll end up making the professional DJs in the area look like a bunch of chumps.

Please take a look at page 11
It states 215 Watts RMS at 8 Ohms, the 1200 Watt rating is in bridged mode. I have 4 S115V's that I used to run with an RMX2450, now I'm using PLX2 3602's to run them and have adequate headroom for them. With 215 Watts you're not going to get the sound you want.

http://www.behringer.com/assets/PMP1280S_P0568_M_EN.pdf

ittigger said:

'The best bang for your buck will be to buy good quality speakers - which will give you great sound for years to come. Buy something cheap and it'll sound bad and as a benefit of buying cheap, you'll have to invest some more (to buy good quality speakers) because you didn't do it right the first time.

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While not directly bashing the kid, you still ignore the budget he said he has to work with. And for the record, I've received crap from members of this board for using "bad" speakers both in college (B-52 SR series) and now (JBL Sound Factors). Funny, with an equalizer both of these series can dance circles around the what the professionals in our area use.

Jon Tuck said:

So what type gigs are you attempting to bring inferior sound to? Im not sure where your college is but they dont like any of their music played on speakers that have less bass than their computer systems have. Are you doing freebies and thats why you cant save up? Get a friend with a truck or a wagon/hatchback or something keep the B52s until you can buy a compact top and sub system. Then again maybe you just do frat house parties for beer but they still wont invite you back without some Bump.

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Once again, bashing the kid for bringing "inferior sound" to a gig. Also demonstrated is the severe lack of knowledge about a college campus. Thanks to the earbuds and crappy sound coming out of iPods, it's hard to make acutal speakers sound worse than those. Thanks to technology and the low price of gear, the vast majority of frat houses have their own in-house systems.

Jon Tuck said:

so its not important how they sound for these open mics? When the customers and owners decide you dont have decent sound and find someone else then what will you do with your investment?

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Once again, for most open mics in a college town, a performer would be thrilled to have a guitar amp. Actual speakers would be icing on the cake. Once again, we see the lack of mindset for a college town...the money comes from the college kids, give them a little coffee shop and an open mic and as long as the coffee is good, they're not going anywhere.

richardstringer said:

People have helped you allo they can and you've proven you've got an attitude mate, your budget is so low you can't get anything decent, listen to Dr. Zinc, he was right, good luck with your foolish, naive quest.

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Knocking the kid for a low budget and completely ignoring the fact that lost cost doesn't necessairly mean crappy speakers.

ittigger said:

J Mac, WTF? No one's bashing him being in college and having low funds (as opposed to no funds). I haven't offered name brand equipment either. Some of us have offered information on how one should be looking to get to Point B from Point A. While there are several ways to do it, we're trying to show him the best route.

And even though some of us may have not 'stepped foot on a college campus in quite some time' - that doesn't alleviate the responsible answer. Has the rules of college (low funds) changed how the DJ / audio professional does things over the years?

Would you walk into a homeless shelter and tell them that it's ok to use crappy gear because you can't afford it or would you say, look - maybe this just isn't for you? or would you show them their options and let them decide?

From here, it doesn't appear that he wants a hand up - he wants a hand out. We've offered valuable advice (even on a budget) - he refuses to hear it. There are several other factors that play into this 'no fund / college' problem as well. Where are the funds for the music itself?

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It's true that some have offered info on different routes, but telling him that he can't get anything decent for his budget or saying save up and buy better speakers isn't helping at all.

The rules of DJing on a college campus changed ever since napster came out. Ever since then, for doing frat gigs and the likes, the rules have completely changed, even to the point where us professionals don't stand a chance in hell of competing against some of these college kids. After all, why spend even $500 on a professional DJ, when we can pay this guy $100 and have another $400 of beer money.

Funds for the music, I'll tell you right now, a frat isn't going to give two chits where the music comes from, as long as the price is right. Nothing we say or do will change that fact.

Bigtan said:

You guys act like I want bad speakers. I said I want the best bang for my buck, and I told you my budget. When I said they dont have to be "good" I meant they don't have to be the best. I'm sure the speakers I find within my budget will more than good enough for these small venues I will be playing at. Are you saying that the speakers Steve and I posted are not good enough for a venue like this? Are these bad speakers? Do you not think the owners/customers will be satisfied with the Yamaha club series speakers? Cause thats what it sounds like you're saying.

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Welcome to GearSnobLand. You'll find lots of emotion, lots of chests being stuck out, and very little actual logic. Yes, what you're trying to do is difficult but not impossible. I believe you've gotten enough info in this thread to do what you need to do. Sort through it, move forward and don't bother trying to beat the natives at their own game.

Good luck with it.

ittigger said:

Wow, I think I just got promoted to a GearSnob - didn't see that one coming.

RR, in this thread, there was very little gear names pointed out. Instead, he was supplied with alot of logic and thoughts on how to function properly within his means, which is what he asked. How you can see that as otherwise boggles my mind. Shall I assume that you're ok with this cheap mindset?

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ittigger, I was not aiming that comment directly at you but at the general mentality that often gets displayed here. There are plenty of guys here who spout off that if you don't have a $2k cabinet, you shouldn't be DJing. The kid has a few shells to spend. If you have something useful to offer then offer it but this thread has devolved into nothing but petty name calling, or gear snobbery.

It has always been my belief that this Forum existed to help BETTER OUR CRAFT IN EACH AND EVERY WAY. Irregardless of what is being used on a College Campus or a latrine, we try and lead by example. This is how any industry improves itself by making things better. Advising people to buy inferior products that could possibly fail during a performance is foolhardy. Ever been to a store looking for a product and have the sales people tell you "Sorry we can't help you!"? Not because they don't have the product itself but maybe the quality brand the customer was seeking was one the store chose not to carry.

Recently, I have seen a proliferation of people signing on here looking for advice on how to cut corners, buy cheap gear, eliminate necessary gear but expect the same results etc. That does not help to educate the potential customer who has no clue what we use and why we use what we do. To most of them it is just price as long as sound comes out of two enclosures. Do we really want to help thse folks into that kind of thinking? What does that say about us?

There is plenty of help out there for the OP of the kind for which he is looking. I thought we were above the level of the Craigslist Djs and crappy gear. Irregardless what anyone started out using, that is the past! We move forward with quality equipment and professionalism among ourselves. It is not being a snob or uppity. It is more like elevating oneself from the crap out there so we can gain the benefits of respect, being taken seriously and making it easier to ask for the big $$$$$$$$.

I don't believe for one minute that Frat Parties and Open Mike sessions have to have crappy DJs and gear. I would bet that those same students have no problem buying the latest electronic gadgets such as the latest iphones, ipads etc.Those things cost good money. 100 students each contributing a measly $3.00 each can pay for a good DJ to come in and do a party for them.

I am not going to contribute to helping to saturate the DJ market with crappy DJs and gear. Once there, many don't have the ambition to improve themselves and end up on Craigslist undercutting others and sometimes ruining clients special days. Let them seek advise elsewhere.

ittigger said:

RR, if you go back and read the thread, you will note that he was given plenty of useful information. I don't see any petty name calling nor gear snobbery. I see that the conversation may have turned into - try to understand a college kid with no money, to which I have no empathy. If the dude has gas, beer or other money, then he has money. He was also given ideas to donate to earn money, if needed. While I have not been a GearSnob, I refuse to assist someone do something for nothing - while I personally have invested hundreds of thousands to do it the right way. Let me also add that while this dude is in college and has 'no money', I grew up in section 8 housing, literally with nothing. If I can do it the right way, so can they.

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BTW, I'll clarify that I confused this thread with one of the others. He's going to have a rough go trying to make 4 bills into something decent and I'll agree with Jon that he'd do better to just stick with what he has. We don't have to devolve to being rude, however.

ittigger said:

So you would offer advice to buy crappy speakers, to which he would have to dump even more money into (to buy proper ones)? Or should he keep the ones he's got (as advised)? I mean if there is nothing of quality that you could buy for your 'budget', then what do you offer other than what I did?



Because all the equipment is cheap and the music stolen? Not sure where you're going with this. You being a college kid does not change the rules of doing it the right way. It changes the rules of how one perceives how to do it the right way. If I told you that I want a bliss light but I don't want to pay that much for it - would you give me 'good' alternatives to get me a bliss light? Oh yeah, btw - I don't want to pay more than 50 bucks. Does this change any? Oh and I'll 'only' be using it for the home - does this get me a better deal / more sympathy?



Right, so we should encourage him to do it the wrong way? Or should we provide him the knowledge of how to do it the right way and let him fail / succeed because of his own decision? Are you going to still be there to advise him when he's out of college and has a library full of stolen media and he's in your market, competing with you.

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Well, if the gear doesn't fit in his vehicle, then it really doesn't matter what it is, it's not going anywhere.

I agree, being a college kid doesn't change the rules of legality, but it the environment and the market change the rules which people are allowed to play by. Look, you guys are looking at it from a professional standpoint, which is great. That's how I look at it too, but being where he is (in a college environment and market), I know that while the legal rules and business rules are the same, the actual rules that are being played by are different.

Dude, we've got college hacks running all over the place here with their lappys full of pirated music and rigs that should be sent to the scrap pile (lack of upkeep and maintaince), so one more wouldn't be an issue. Also, I've mentored at two of our college dorms that operate radio stations and a mobile rig, so yes, I've helped some of these kids get into the markets around here, doesn't bother me in the least.

Heck, in college we were those darn college kids taking gigs from professional DJs, including a couple of weddings. Granted our music library was legal (cd based at the time)

ahoustondj said:

There is plenty of help out there for the OP of the kind for which he is looking. I thought we were above the level of the Craigslist Djs and crappy gear. Irregardless what anyone started out using, that is the past! We move forward with quality equipment and professionalism among ourselves. It is not being a snob or uppity. It is more like elevating oneself from the crap out there so we can gain the benefits of respect, being taken seriously and making it easier to ask for the big $$$$$$$$.

I don't believe for one minute that Frat Parties and Open Mike sessions have to have crappy DJs and gear. I would bet that those same students have no problem buying the latest electronic gadgets such as the latest iphones, ipads etc.Those things cost good money. 100 students each contributing a measly $3.00 each can pay for a good DJ to come in and do a party for them.

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You know, Houston, many of us came here to get away from the "I'm above helping those starting out" mentality that was prevelant on other boards. Sure, you're helping the industry by not helping make crappy DJs, but at the same time you're hurting it by allowing any knowledge you might have to be lost to the next generation of DJs.

No, frat parties and open mics don't have to have crappy gear, but guess what, most of them do. 100 kids at $3 each, that's $300. Now we can spend that on a DJ or we can spend it on 40 cases of beer and have Johnny down the hall DJ. Trust me, I'm surrounded by one of the largest Greek systems in the country, you can pay a DJ $300 or you can buy $300 worth of booze...oh by the way, booze can help you get laid. You're naive to think the DJ wins that battle.

DJ J Mac said:

You know, Houston, many of us came here to get away from the "I'm above helping those starting out" mentality that was prevelant on other boards. Sure, you're helping the industry by not helping make crappy DJs, but at the same time you're hurting it by allowing any knowledge you might have to be lost to the next generation of DJs.

No, frat parties and open mics don't have to have crappy gear, but guess what, most of them do. 100 kids at $3 each, that's $300. Now we can spend that on a DJ or we can spend it on 40 cases of beer and have Johnny down the hall DJ. Trust me, I'm surrounded by one of the largest Greek systems in the country, you can pay a DJ $300 or you can buy $300 worth of booze...oh by the way, booze can help you get laid. You're naive to think the DJ wins that battle.

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No disrespect to you my friend but I refuse to subscribe to that mentality. It is not about putting down anyone at all. Based on the (Any) poster's attitude, it will give me a sense of whether or not this person will in turn to their part to help improve this industry. I may be wrong, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like one it probably is one. It starts with ONE to make a change. It becomes more harder to change, when ONE MORE of the same is added to the mix. Plain and simple he is not ready for this business. Are you trying to tell me that if all the crappy DJs and their gear were eliminated that there will no longer be Frat parties or that some Weddings will have no music? Gasoline prices went up and poor people are still buying Gasoline for their shiny new cars.