Securing cables.

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Ausumm said:
I wonder how the venue would react if the paying client got in someone's face and read them the riot act for giving her vendors a hard time.
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The bride LOVES the venue. They have been sooooo accommodating and flexible, and NONE of the other vendors have any problems at all. The venue called the bride to tell them that ALL my concerns were unfounded, and they offered (verbal) assurances to fix ALL the issues.

Ausumm said:
All I know is...once you're in there and set up...you're golden.
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That is my hope/plan at this point. I will sign the form, ignore it, and go for the "verbal" instructions about what will really be happening. Get in, get setup, and then just do my thing.
 
soundinmotiondj said:
The bride LOVES the venue. They have been sooooo accommodating and flexible, and NONE of the other vendors have any problems at all. The venue called the bride to tell them that ALL my concerns were unfounded, and they offered (verbal) assurances to fix ALL the issues.
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At this point, I wouldn't care what my wife would think. I'd tell the bride, sorry. It just sounds way to risky.
 
Sounds To Go said:
These kinds of ambiguities, redundancies, etc. ALSO suggest to me that this agreement was not drafted by legal professionals, and as such would probably not stand up in a court of law anyway.
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It is purely there to try and make their lives easier...
even at someone else's expense.
As far as signing it...I'd bet there is no legal action they could take to prevent your from working there if you didn't sign it.

I can only imagine the "agreement" the bride and groom have to sign....
 
soundinmotiondj said:
As much as I'd like to....

The bride is a co-worker of my wife. The wedding is in 10 days. The bride fired her other DJ yesterday morning. My wife pimped me out to her at lunch time yesterday. I meet with the couple tomorrow night to plan the ceremony and reception.



I have been in contact with the venue, and gotten the written requirements. Site survey is Friday morning @ 9am.



Actually, I probably would not ever use it again. I use gaffers tape to secure my cables, and have for over a decade. I used duct tape before that (e.g. before I knew gaffers tape existed).

The purpose of the cover is to prevent damage to the cord from foot or wheel traffic. The thing that mitigates the trip hazard is the tape!

My tops are typically placed 20-25ft apart. So a 5ft or even a 15ft version of the cord cover will not be sufficient. My local home improvement megamart has a 50ft roll of cord cover, so that is my fall back plan.

Every cord cover I have EVER seen is as much of a trip hazard than a loose wire. Cord covers (almost) never lay flat...especially if they are rolled up to fit into a bin for transport. We put one one a printer cord in my office...it took almost a month to get to almost flat.

I found four different manufacturers of cord covers, and sent links to the rep at the venue. All of the instructions call for the cord covers to be taped to the floor with double stick tape. Pressure sensitive double stick tape is the only substance I know of that will leave more "sticky" behind than duct tape! BUT...this is safety equipment, and I really should follow the manufacturers installation instructions... :trirolleyes:

The venue is a "wedding in a box." So, while you might think they were in the wedding business, they are in fact part of the shifting-liability-lawyer-industrial complex. They want "Additional Insured" status (not a big deal...but an indication of what is motivating them), their "Vendor Agreement" is a whole list of "don't's" for the DJ, and so on.

One of the points in the vendor agreement is repeated THREE times with very slightly different wording each time:



Actually, that's not a big deal...I never eat at my events anyway. I eat before and after the event. I am vegetarian, and I have yet to see a vegetarian friendly meal at a wedding. And I don't want to risk dropping something on my tux shirt in the middle of the event (even though I always bring two shirts anyway...just in case).

But to repeat that "don't" THREE times!!! Apparently I may be one of the few people who has taken the time to actually read the agreement.

They also have a clause that says "All equipment...belonging to the DJ...must be removed by the ending access time." The "ending access time" is also the end of the reception time. When I explained that if there is a hard deadline in writing, I will stop the event 60 minute prior to that to ensure that I can fully load out, the coordinator balked:



BUT...they can not amend the agreement to include that language.... :trirolleyes:
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You CAN have food and beverage if you want. You are NOT the Venue's Vendor. You are in essence also a guest of the Client. I had this happen to me before. Bride and Groom, personal friends, had a reserved seat for me at THEIR table. The Banquet Manager told me when it was time to eat they will serve me. I was busy and did not answer. When I went over and sat down at the head table, he almost blew his top.

As far as the cord covers, if you are not going to ever use it again, add it to your total fee and buy what is needed or get the Client involved if they want to reduce the cost. My thinking is that the venue is trying their best to discourage the use of other DJs so their's can be used. Monopoly is illegal.
BTW all communication should be between you and YOUR Client. It is too late now but I would have ignored everything from the Venue. A can of worms has been opened. Why should you sign an agreement with the Venue? Did they hire you? Are they paying you?
 
wow I have never had any of these hassles on any venue I have been too!
 
ahoustondj said:
You CAN have food and beverage if you want. You are NOT the Venue's Vendor. You are in essence also a guest of the Client.
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I never eat during an event anyway...so it is a non issue in my case. I eat before the event, and after. I do not want to risk soiling my clothing with food. Also, I eat a vegetarian diet, and it is VERY rare for a wedding to serve vegetarian friendly food.

The only reason to bring it up that specific point, is that it was repeated three times with slightly different working on the agreement. This leads me to question the venue's attention to detail. I strongly suspect that I am the first person (vendor or not) to really read the agreement with a critical eye.

ahoustondj said:
As far as the cord covers, if you are not going to ever use it again, add it to your total fee and buy what is needed or get the Client involved if they want to reduce the cost.
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My concern is only marginally the cost. I budget about $50 for consumables for each event. That more than covers specific music, office supplies, tape, batteries, etc. The expense would be lumped into that bucket, and absorbed easily enough.

My concern is really the venues aggressive attempt to shift liability. The mandate for cord covers is ostensibly to "secure" the cords. However, they mandate to use no tape of any kind does not allow that safety gear to be properly installed according to the manufacturer.

Cord covers just won't work on wood floors! The version I purchased is made from PVC, and will slide all over a wood floor. There is also no way that the cord covers will lay flat!

My plan is to use bungee cords to secure the speaker cables to the legs of the tripods near the floor. The cables will be held tightly in place, and should remain immediately next to the wall. If the venue insists on cord covers, I will fasten the cord cover to the cables with zip ties. I tried this at the house, and I am comfortable with this as a solution.

ahoustondj said:
My thinking is that the venue is trying their best to discourage the use of other DJs so their's can be used.
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As it turns out, the venue has a list of "approved" DJ's, but none are "in house." So, there can only be so much "discouragement" going on here.

I have been "assuming" (yes, I know how to conjugate that word) that the venue was "competent"...and therefore it was legitimate to attribute their actions to malice. After meeting them in person, the venue is new...and all the people I met are VERY new to the wedding industry, and are VERY inexperienced at event planning. The venue opened in August...and both planners I spoke with were not hired until September!

I met with the main & back up "wedding coordinators" for my clients. Here is a short list of concerns I had following my on site visit:

  • There is no floor plan of the room available. Neither planner knew the basic dimensions of the room, or had any idea about capacity numbers. Apparently there is not even a basic printed brochure that can be given to potential clients showing the room layout.
  • Neither planner had idea how long it would take to get 150 guests through a multi station buffet - something that has happened more than 80 times since the venue opened in August. The venue has allotted one hour for dinner. I asked if they could just go to their notes from the events last weekend and see how long it actually took. They said that they don't take notes during an event.
  • The planners allowed 20 minutes after the B&G arrive (8pm) before the buffet opens (8:20pm)!!! Mingling time? At 8pm, cocktails and hors d'euvers or not, people want to EAT!
  • The table spacing will not allow my dolly to pass without moving almost 40 chairs! Both coordinators seemed really shocked that I would be concerned with table spacing!

In addition, the load in/out path is over about 200 feet of twisting sidewalk from a parking lot to a side door. The sidewalks are new, even, and flat. This will be tedious during the load in, when it is still daylight. I have no idea how well lit the sidewalks will be when it comes time to load out. And, when the venue gets a couple years of age on it, and that sidewalk starts to twist and buckle...the load in/out will be a real challenge.

ahoustondj said:
Why should you sign an agreement with the Venue? Did they hire you? Are they paying you?
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These agreements are a condition of access. No sign, no access.

Every "wedding in a box" has an "outside vendor" agreement. Most involve showing proof of "additionally insured" (not an issue), and have certain "house rules." The house rules vary...but are generally on the theme of "behave like a professional." Most are pretty flexible....especially when there are concerns.

So, if I choose not to sign the client will need to find a new vendor, or a new venue (which will be keeping a HUGE portion of any down payments that have been made). Guess how most clients will choose to solve that problem?
 
soundinmotiondj said:
Originally Posted by ahoustondj
Why should you sign an agreement with the Venue? Did they hire you? Are they paying you?

These agreements are a condition of access. No sign, no access.

Every "wedding in a box" has an "outside vendor" agreement. Most involve showing proof of "additionally insured" (not an issue), and have certain "house rules." The house rules vary...but are generally on the theme of "behave like a professional." Most are pretty flexible....especially when there are concerns.

So, if I choose not to sign the client will need to find a new vendor, or a new venue (which will be keeping a HUGE portion of any down payments that have been made). Guess how most clients will choose to solve that problem?
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soundinmotiondj,

Your contract needs attention.
 
soundinmotiondj said:
  • There is no floor plan of the room available. Neither planner knew the basic dimensions of the room, or had any idea about capacity numbers. Apparently there is not even a basic printed brochure that can be given to potential clients showing the room layout.
  • Neither planner had idea how long it would take to get 150 guests through a multi station buffet - something that has happened more than 80 times since the venue opened in August. The venue has allotted one hour for dinner. I asked if they could just go to their notes from the events last weekend and see how long it actually took. They said that they don't take notes during an event.
  • The planners allowed 20 minutes after the B&G arrive (8pm) before the buffet opens (8:20pm)!!! Mingling time? At 8pm, cocktails and hors d'euvers or not, people want to EAT!
  • The table spacing will not allow my dolly to pass without moving almost 40 chairs! Both coordinators seemed really shocked that I would be concerned with table spacing!

In addition, the load in/out path is over about 200 feet of twisting sidewalk from a parking lot to a side door. The sidewalks are new, even, and flat. This will be tedious during the load in, when it is still daylight. I have no idea how well lit the sidewalks will be when it comes time to load out. And, when the venue gets a couple years of age on it, and that sidewalk starts to twist and buckle...the load in/out will be a real challenge.



So, if I choose not to sign the client will need to find a new vendor, or a new venue (which will be keeping a HUGE portion of any down payments that have been made). Guess how most clients will choose to solve that problem?
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First of all: the list....How does any of this have anything to do with you. You are the DJ; thay have a planner. As for the last item, either load in/set up before the chairs are in place, or move them yourself....

As far as the load in and load out; what exactly do you want the venue to do? Carry it in and out for you?

The answer is simple here; either buck up and stop complaining or just black list the venue.....It's that simple
 
Have you been communicating with them via email? Any response (for instance the 30 minute extension) is then essentially "in writing", even if they refuse to amend the actual document.
 
Simply put, some potential clients AND venues are just not destined to be contracted and paying clients.

With so many concerns, just nicely say "no thank you".

We all have venues we prefer not to work. I have a few that are not worth the hassle and if a potential bride calls me for one of them, sorry but I am already booked for that day.
 
soundinmotiondj said:
These agreements are a condition of access. No sign, no access.

Every "wedding in a box" has an "outside vendor" agreement. Most involve showing proof of "additionally insured" (not an issue), and have certain "house rules." The house rules vary...but are generally on the theme of "behave like a professional." Most are pretty flexible....especially when there are concerns.

So, if I choose not to sign the client will need to find a new vendor, or a new venue (which will be keeping a HUGE portion of any down payments that have been made). Guess how most clients will choose to solve that problem?
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How did they get to you is my question. The only contact and conversation one should be having with a venue is a site visit to determine pricing and acceptance of a Gig & Placement and load in of gear. All other matters should be referred back to your client! Your agreements should be between your client and you. One of the elements of a Contract is Consideration/Compensation. Who is paying who for what?
 
Houston - Sometimes life isn't all black and white; there are shades of gray...Yes you can go back to your client and b1tch about the venue....That's not the service and attention they want, nor would I think that's the service you want to give the client.....

I don't know what dream world you live in where you can simply disregard the wishes of the venue....

You either ascribe to the venue's rules or decline the gig; it's that simple. The OP wants his cake and wants to eat it as well.

Whining to your client isn't going to make you look any better to the client.
 
Steve LeBlanc said:
Houston - Sometimes life isn't all black and white; there are shades of gray...Yes you can go back to your client and b1tch about the venue....That's not the service and attention they want, nor would I think that's the service you want to give the client.....

I don't know what dream world you live in where you can simply disregard the wishes of the venue....

You either ascribe to the venue's rules or decline the gig; it's that simple. The OP wants his cake and wants to eat it as well.

Whining to your client isn't going to make you look any better to the client.
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First: I do not Bitch to my Clients. If there is an issue at the Venue i report back to them with my findings then give them my stance as to what I would or would not do. What I don't do is play puss to everything that is handed me and go the proverbial mile like you do. I am not afraid to loose a gig because of BS.
I am also the Guest of the Client and thus the Venue has to accomodate and respect me as such.
The service I want to give the client is the one for which they have paid. Everything is negotiatable towards signing an agreement.
No venue is going to tell me how to do my job.
I have broken many a venue's rules and lived to go back there for repeat performances. What you fail to realize is that the Client is the one who is better suited to set things straight because they are the ones that is paying. Just as how I can't tell the venue what to do they can't in turn tell me what to do.
I think you use the words Bitching and Whining" rather loosely. An objection to something is not called bitching or whining,
 
You "report"...after the 2nd or 3rd time, it's whining, b1tching and a primadonna attitude to all others involved.

I don't play puss....I accommodate my clients wishes and work with all involved to ensure a successful event.

Why can't you just tell the client that it just doesn't work for you and decline the gig?

"No venue is going to tell me how to do my job.
I have broken many a venue's rules and lived to go back there for repeat performances. "

This says it all....

Hey, if it works for you, fine. Just don't crap on everyone else, simply because they choose to work with all involved
 
Steve LeBlanc said:
Houston - Sometimes life isn't all black and white; there are shades of gray...Yes you can go back to your client and b1tch about the venue....That's not the service and attention they want, nor would I think that's the service you want to give the client.....

I don't know what dream world you live in where you can simply disregard the wishes of the venue....

You either ascribe to the venue's rules or decline the gig; it's that simple. The OP wants his cake and wants to eat it as well.

Whining to your client isn't going to make you look any better to the client.
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Steve,
I want to clarify things once again. I know things/conditions at these venues are not Black and White or perfect. I have the experience and Sales Negotiating background to know how to avoid the issues with the Venues before they come up. It is easier to avoid rather than combat. I am not there to pick a fight with the venue.
I do not open a can of worms by asking stupid questions such as "Where do you want me to setup?" or "How often can I scratch my azz?"
If I want to setup in a certain location and I know the Venue may oppose, I cite safety issues as a means of getting what I want. The reason why I am there for the site visit is to ensure that the CLIENT has the best possible sound that I can offer over and beyond for which they have paid. Putting me in a corner behind a table full of guests may not be the best idea of delivering that perfect sound.
A question to the Venue such as "You don't want to have a Liability because of a Safety issue, do you?
A question to the Client such as "You want the music to be the best that it can be, right?
Do I make concessions? Sure I do, when it makes sense. Location of gear is a moot point when you think of it. Whether you spread the speakers or put them all together with you and the other gear in a 9' square area, will still amount to the same space taken. One will definitely sound better than the other. Guess which one?
99% of the time there are no issues when I visit and leave the Venue for a site visit, so the Client never gets involved. If the venue wants me to load in from my parked vehicle 1/4 mile away through winding walkways and up stairs...that is not a problem because my fee will be then calculated to take all this into account. I never quote price until after the site visit. Have I ever lost a Gig because maybe my price was to high? Yes I have! Do I care? Heck no! That Gig was not meant for me. You can't win them all.
So even though I may come across as a non budging butt head with whom it is hard to work, that is not the case.
For those who want to go to a Gig and end up with several Bosses telling you what to do..... The Client (Acceptable), The Venue & it's staff (Not acceptable), The Wedding Coordinator (Not Acceptable)...then go right ahead and play Pansy!
 
djrox said:
Your contract needs attention.
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My contact covers this very situation. If I am unable to reach an agreement with the venue, then the contract is void, and all $$$ are returned.

The clients are friends of my wife. My wife (after finding out I was available) said that I would do it. So, I must make this work.

WaydeWest said:
Have you been communicating with them via email? Any response (for instance the 30 minute extension) is then essentially "in writing", even if they refuse to amend the actual document.
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The 30 minute extension is in writing.

The venue is being careful to keep the paper trail in their favor. A few other modifications have been communicated with a phone call. When I send an e-mail to confirm, the response is to the effect of "....the original agreement is what will be followed..."

ahoustondj said:
Everything is negotiatable towards signing an agreement.
No venue is going to tell me how to do my job.
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I have always thought that contacts were negotiable. Right up until the other side will not negotiate. No sign, no access. Also, I have yet to meet someone who is allowed to say "yes".

Based on the phone calls, we may be "close enough" that I can make things work. That is my hope at this point. I am planning to take my "normal" equipment load, and to arrive 2 hours early. If I can get in, great...if not, I'll be waiting at the door with the equipment on the dollies until the doors are opened.

Steve LeBlanc said:
You "report"...after the 2nd or 3rd time, it's whining, b1tching and a primadonna attitude to all others involved.
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It is good to know how it came across. I have certainly been "venting" my frustrations here.

My dealings with the venue have been in more measured tones. I have given a high level report of the "difficulties" that I am facing to the client, but have not shared any of the details with the clients. There is nothing that the B&G can do about the venue anyway. They will be getting married there in 4 days.
 
Steve LeBlanc said:
You "report"...after the 2nd or 3rd time, it's whining, b1tching and a primadonna attitude to all others involved. It usually never gets beyond the first time. I offer solutions not Gripes!I don't play puss....I accommodate my clients wishes and work with all involved to ensure a successful event. When the Venue pushes you to setup in a Corner, is that REALLY YOUR CLIENT"S wish?Why can't you just tell the client that it just doesn't work for you and decline the gig?

"No venue is going to tell me how to do my job.
I have broken many a venue's rules and lived to go back there for repeat performances. "

This says it all.... "It is how it is broken my friend, there was no anomosity on either side." Hey, if it works for you, fine. Just don't crap on everyone else, simply because they choose to work with all involved
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Some answers above in Red.
Let me give you a scenario. The venue MAKES you setup in a corner with people sitting at tables directly in front of you. Someone trying to squeeze through, trips on your tripod and the speaker topples over and hits someone. Who is at fault? Who is liable?
Let me cut to the chase..if it happened to me, in Court the venue will have to answer why they forced me to setup in an unsafe location. See my point?:triwink:
Mention that to the Venue and suddenly they let YOU make the decision of gear and speaker placement.
Psychology is a big part of sales negotiating.
 
soundinmotiondj said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by djrox
Your contract needs attention.

My contact covers this very situation. If I am unable to reach an agreement with the venue, then the contract is void, and all $$$ are returned.
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WOW! I would never use or suggest that language. Your contract is now subordinate to, dependent upon, and at the mercy of the un-negotiated, non-compensated and potentially self serving conditions and desires of a non-party to said contract.

[REPEAT]Your contract needs attention.[/REPEAT]


soundinmotiondj said:
The clients are friends of my wife. My wife (after finding out I was available) said that I would do it. So, I must make this work.
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I have empathy for your unfortunate position...bent over back-wards because the woman you love has made offers of work that only you have to honor. I have found solace and value in the following belief: "The only woman in the world that can get away with that crap, is also the only woman in the world that has the beauty and fortitude to tolerate me."
 
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