Same Library For Multiple Systems

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Rox I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this.
Cest le vie.

Our whole conversation via PM was not specifically aimed at this thread and wasn't even about this thread.
But it was relevant and applicable, and mostly appreciated and mature, that is why discussions, especially serious and provocative exchanges and their informative evolution, are important and should not be muted, truncated, or erased or filtered through opinion monitors. Short of cursing and obvious flaming, what negative impact can such discussions have? Would running off theiving bottom feeders hurt this forum?

I guess I'll just keep treating everyone equally until contrary evidence warrants, no matter the form of communication, others can do otherwise.

Ain't America GREAT!!

House rules apply to everyone we strive to apply them fairly though some feel otherwise.
I never invite strangers into my house, they are invited into public places where I frequent, for example, venues where I perform, and they are welcome in those public place. I consider these forums more public than home. Maybe that is where we might also agree to disagree.

But if they show up, and start stealing, promoting other events and behaving in a manner that has a harmful impact on my event, they are treated to the house rule that establishes they must alter their actions or leave.

I guess my question boils down to this, and this is an honest, serious inquiry and has no hidden intent, "Is the purpose of ODJT to promote professionalism in the mobile disc jockey industry, or, is this just a forum that gathers members?"
 
ODJT's purpose is dual. To promote information sharing amongst DJs and gain members. We have to gain members in order to survive. That's just a fact. As people get busy and post less or no longer post for what ever reason we need new people to offset the loss in participation in order to make ODJT a valuable resource for all involved.

Let's not even try and define professional and professionalism because I think we can agree that's just counter productive on most DJ forums, ODJT included. Any attempt to define either term invites a firestorm. Hence the lack of 'professional' in my statement above.

We could grow a lot of faster. I deliberately choose not to run advertising campaigns so that we grow predominately by word of mouth and therefore everyone knows someone here and we retain that community atmosphere that most of our members seem to enjoy.

As I said before house rules apply to everyone. I cannot allow one or more people to make ODJT an unwelcoming community to new and old members alike. It's just not going to happen a lot of people have worked awful hard to make ODJT what it is today and I flat out refuse to see it go down the crapper because 1 or 2 people cannot play well with others.
 
I think this should be in the Big Debates section more!!

its going to be a fight to the death lol
 
Damnit Dan you're just as guilty of bumping this thread as Dennis


Ohhhhhhhh Damnit I just bumped it too... :sqwink:
...and you another one!!!

Damn now I am too...
c4b_football.gif


P.S. Dennis, To the death is a bit much, I prefer to leave em alive but unable to continue due to extreme trauma.:sqwink:
 
1 original set, 16 copies. Original never leaves the house and all the copies are either CD burns or MP3s.

Never seen or even heard of anyone being asked to produce a license or any kind of legal documentation.

Just say "piracy" for short.

You've never heard of anyone getting caught because unless you're in a club or public venue where licenses are checked - how the hell is a music industry lawyer going to find you?

Is this a recurring theme among mobile mulit-ops of all shapes, sizes and prices? You bet. But, there's not a lot of opportunity for enforcement of the copyrights among DJs who seldom appear in public venues.
 
Interesting thought.

Most will agree that if you have one master set of music and two systems you are safe sending that second system out on a night you are not working.

But how different is that than as long as you are not playing the same song at the same time you are covered? You own one copy of the song so as long as 2 systems are not playing the same song at the same time only one copy is being used??

The only was to fix this Grey area is the music industry should just give DJ's the music for free for the promotion that is done for the artist.

Option 2 that I feel would work is a annual music license for DJ's

How would this differ from 3, 4 or 5 (etc) systems not playing the same song at the same time?
 
No one here does. The multi ops don't even own 1 collection of their music.
I DO!

I don't worry about this issue as I have one basic music library and require all our DJs to buy their own. Our DJs always have more than the basic library. The Pros were busted many years ago for burning copies of CDs and giving them to their DJs. RIAA came down hard on them, but it seems the issue is just to difficult to enforce anymore.
 
And some people wonder why the rest of us can't make a living doing this.

The piracy issue is mute on that. If music is a significant expense for a single op - then that person needs to take a serious look at what they are doing and learn to buy music properly. Many DJs grossly overspend on music and are better described as "collectors" rather than DJs. It amazes me how many people run with outrageously heavy inventory and very light schedules.

When I was all vinyl and doing clubs which required constantly fresh music - I had a single collection that cost about $3,000/yr to maintain. That era peaked maybe ~1987. Now fast forward to the CD era and I'm buying for 5 mobile CD systems - the cost is now about half - just $1,600 ~ 1993.

Mobiles were so much more predictable and consistent, so I became more discriminating and the collections didn't need to be identical. They were all solidly rounded for weddings, but some were heavy on the younger stuff and others were heavy on adult & oldies. You match the right collection with the right job and DJ on any given day. Thus, I didn't waste space or money sending Patti Page CDs to a prom, nor did I have Jay-Z at 50th Anniversaries.

Now I'm a single-op again buying for one collection and my annual music expenditure is under $300. Promo only takes care of most new music and the rest I can purchase as needed and frankly, those days of buying $18 CDs for some obscure first dance song are long over. If the client doens't provide their own copy (and many do) it's just $0.99 to download it. It's so common now for people making requests to offer you their iPod as a source - and using their device is another great way play without pay.

As I see it - the people who think they need to own every song they play need to get a clue and realize they get paid to PLAY songs not COLLECT them. For the next group of people who feverishly obsess over DJs cranking out duped libraries - just get a life and get off the gerbil wheel. The only thing holding you back is your desire to run in place while looking for what everyone else is doing wrong.

Piracy is no excuse for not being competitive. I don't care how many systems the other guys is running... music expense has nothing to do with how I'm going to out book him. I've seen some serious piracy in multi-ops over the years and I can assure you it doesn't work out well. The inability to come up with legitimate models extends to just about every other facet of their business and that is their true weakness. More than anything piracy just bogs these guys down in endless duplication and inventory issues which draws time and money away from productive use.

There is no validity to the equation GEAR = JOBS - it's a lie. As someone else mentioned, the best answer is to require your DJs to build and maintain their own collections. Give them a list of what they should have and concentrate on your TRUE business of booking events. SALES = JOBS and it's the guy with the customers and contract that makes money - not the guy holding the music.
 
How would this differ from 3, 4 or 5 (etc) systems not playing the same song at the same time?

I'm not sure where this non-sesne about "timing" comes from but it's time to put it away.

You are violating the copyright because the track is simultaneously and physically AVAILABLE to two discreet users and violates the mechanical license. You are liable for the purpose even if the second DJ never plays it at all.

Perhaps if the source is streaming but, this requires an entirely different license altogether anyway. The right to stream the content is not part of the license you acquired when you bought the track or disc.
 
Proformance did you ever read the EULA from Itunes. You might as well steal the music as buy from them they are both illegal for commercial performance
 
I'm not sure where this non-sesne about "timing" comes from but it's time to put it away.

You are violating the copyright because the track is simultaneously and physically AVAILABLE to two discreet users and violates the mechanical license. You are liable for the purpose even if the second DJ never plays it at all.

Perhaps if the source is streaming but, this requires an entirely different license altogether anyway. The right to stream the content is not part of the license you acquired when you bought the track or disc.

I totally agree with you. I was pointing out that there is no difference.
 
I suppose there is no corelation to the number of events a single op can do as compared to a multi-op when a single original is copied and given to each of the multi-op's stable of dj? In other words, we both purchased a single original. When the multi-op charges LESS per gig than the Single Op does, who loses money? The Single Op does because the multi-op is able to lower his price-per-gig due to the music that was cloned and given to the stable djs.

In reality isn't the Single Op the loser in this senerio?
 
In Canada, you can purchase the music, buy an AVLA licence for each system that goes out for ~$150. So you can spend Thousands of $$$$ on a master set of music and spend only $150 on each case of copied music that goes out.

Master + 10 sets = Original cost of Music + 10($150)
 
Also note, if any AVLA scout comes out (and they do) ask them to provide a warrant to be at that private function and to view your equipment and library. Roz will be calling you on the Monday sayin' WTF, why wouldn't you show that you were legit. I say 'cause I have rights, and so do my clients.
 
In Canada, you can purchase the music, buy an AVLA licence for each system that goes out for ~$150. So you can spend Thousands of $$$$ on a master set of music and spend only $150 on each case of copied music that goes out.

Master + 10 sets = Original cost of Music + 10($150)

I don't think that's the intent Al.....I might not be right, though.....
 
As for the AVLA laws, yes that is the intent. As for Discount, who cares if he has illegal music or not; IT DOES NOT AFFECT YOU!!! This wouldn't affect me even if I lived in the same city.