I'm considering getting a 18" Harbinger sub.

To many ads? Support ODJT and see no ads!
Why do DJs brag about being booked…
but never brag about being profitable?

I’ll wait.

If you don't have anything on the top line, the bottom line will never look fun. But I agree with your sentiment here.

I was approached to be the "in house" guy for a wedding venue that was trying to book all-inclusive packages. And he asked me what I was making per event and tried to spin it that each gig wouldn't pay as much but how consistent he could get me work. We weren't a fit when I explained that his strategy was the exact opposite of what I want. I want a tight calendar of highly profitable events, not working a ton to make the same thing.
 
Why do DJs brag about being booked…
but never brag about being profitable?

I’ll wait.
It's a seriously flawed question, and essentially invalid.

For 90% of DJs - a "gig" is the thing that matters, not the money. This typically transcends any actual "business plan" if there is one.

Let's start with Mixx for example: He's driven by emotion - a love for whatever it is "DJ' means to him. The money is more or less irrelevant. His working (paid) career was something else entirely. Now retired, he focuses on that same DJ passion,

If we ran thru the entire roster of members on this site we'd find that in one degree or another that same element describes most, including those who appear to charge a premium.

There's also a lot of DJs who seem to understand making a "profit" on a per gig basis, but run what is essentially a one product offer - rather than a servcie business. It often gets as narrow as a house painter who only does stained (no scraping) one stroy buildings under 1,000 SqFt,, only on the weekedns, and doesn't do windows or doors. It's not necessarily a business if we're simply hanging a line off the bridge - fishing for a bite.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MIXMASTERMACHOM
run what is essentially a one product offer - rather than a servcie business.

There are lots of businesses that would be better served to focus on doing a small set of things well versus trying to be all things to people in the name of flexibility.
 
There is without a doubt, a vast array of DJ’s and motivations. I admire those who are able to do it for a living, without needing a second (or third) job. I was more like Mix (a frightening thought), in that I was retired when I was DJing. I wasn’t concerned about how many gigs I got, nor did I NEED the money. I enjoyed playing music for the enjoyment of others. Unlike Mix, I DID run a legitimate business. I did make a profit, and when I determined the business was going into the red, I shut it down. There are DJ’s who do it just for fun, and others just looking to make a few extra bucks. It’s not a one-size-fits-all situation.
 
Why do DJs brag about being booked…
but never brag about being profitable?

I’ll wait.
Because most don’t treat it like a business, no business plan, no idea what their true costs are.
Let say it’s a Friday night bar / club gig, pay us $300
Assume parking is easy no cost and you have to supply the gear.
4 hour gig
Time costs
Gig prep minimal , go over gear make sure it’s all functioning properly change ant batteries charge any rechargeable devices/lighting, make sure you have the proper music latest hits what trending in your area, load gear.
Let’s call it 2 hours
Drive to gig
1/2 hour may vary

Load in and set up
Minimum 1 hour
Play set
4 hours
Tear down load up
1 hour estimate
Drive home
1/2 hour may vary
Unload and put away gear
1/2 hour estimate
That’s 8 1/2 hours
Just of $35 an hour
- taxes $75
-Fuel $10
-wear and tear on vehicle -$10
- wear and tear on gear - $10
-set aside to purchase new gear -$30 my goal is 10% of gross set aside for new gear
I’m sure I’m missing something
$135 in costs

Brings you $165 profit gig just over $19 an hour not very good when the local McDonald’s pays $17 an hour
 
  • Like
Reactions: sonic-vision
Because most don’t treat it like a business, no business plan, no idea what their true costs are.
Let say it’s a Friday night bar / club gig, pay us $300
Assume parking is easy no cost and you have to supply the gear.
4 hour gig
Time costs
Gig prep minimal , go over gear make sure it’s all functioning properly change ant batteries charge any rechargeable devices/lighting, make sure you have the proper music latest hits what trending in your area, load gear.
Let’s call it 2 hours
Drive to gig
1/2 hour may vary

Load in and set up
Minimum 1 hour
Play set
4 hours
Tear down load up
1 hour estimate
Drive home
1/2 hour may vary
Unload and put away gear
1/2 hour estimate
That’s 8 1/2 hours
Just of $35 an hour
- taxes $75
-Fuel $10
-wear and tear on vehicle -$10
- wear and tear on gear - $10
-set aside to purchase new gear -$30 my goal is 10% of gross set aside for new gear
I’m sure I’m missing something
$135 in costs

Brings you $165 profit gig just over $19 an hour not very good when the local McDonald’s pays $17 an hour
Now break that out for the guys going out for $150-$200 for that gig
 
Last edited:
Name a few examples?

I'm a foodie, so I immediately think about restaurants with massive menus vs a tight menu of items they excel at. Nobody know Thomas Keller's name because he asks everyone that comes in what they might want to eat. He develops a menu and serves it.

Are you going to get better cuts of meat from a butcher shop or a grocery store?

Would you rather be a handyman or a specialist in a trade?

Would you rather be a neurosurgeon ($750K avg. salary) or a general surgeon ($400K average)?

If I want ski gear, I'm not going to a Dick's Sporting Goods. I'm going to a shop that specializes in alpine sports.

There's obviously businesses that have had success trying to have broad general appeal (Walmart, Target, etc.). But I don't think I'm going to get "The best" of anything from those places. The tradeoff is convenience for deeper selection and expertise.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sonic-vision
I'm a foodie, so I immediately think about restaurants with massive menus vs a tight menu of items they excel at. Nobody know Thomas Keller's name because he asks everyone that comes in what they might want to eat. He develops a menu and serves it.

Are you going to get better cuts of meat from a butcher shop or a grocery store?

Would you rather be a handyman or a specialist in a trade?

Would you rather be a neurosurgeon ($750K avg. salary) or a general surgeon ($400K average)?

If I want ski gear, I'm not going to a Dick's Sporting Goods. I'm going to a shop that specializes in alpine sports.

There's obviously businesses that have had success trying to have broad general appeal (Walmart, Target, etc.). But I don't think I'm going to get "The best" of anything from those places. The tradeoff is convenience for deeper selection and expertise.
This is just worthless hype, like covering the windows of an otherwise empty store with giant SALE posters.

BUSINESS
A restaurant for example, requires investors, mortgages/loans, multiple licenses, inspections, real estate holdings, commercial supplier relationships, managers, licensed servers (bar tenders), and employee managers, and other directive staff., plus advertising, an ALL under a pressing timeline.

None of that exists for a DJ - No license, ZERO up front investment, no office, no physical location at all. As a result - anyone who can develop even a basic talent for events or venues can start work immediately., I know, I've trained DJs. I was initially trained by someone else and started with no personal equipment and no music collection. Night clubs, mobile, etc. I was a college student, and it was years before I went on to do my own thing with my own resources,

TALENT
I would simply suggest that "DJing" is not a business at all. It's simply a craft that can be put to work in other businesses. Those businesses may be night clubs or other venues, or actual entertainment bureaus/agencies that do event planning and entertainment booking,.

Being a contractor doesn't alone make someone a "home builder" or developer. Likewise, the tax status or legal organizational form is irrelevant when a DJ is essentially a solo-op working part time with shallow resources. If our van breaks down - there's no one to call, no one to replace us. We have a true emergency and possible no show if we can't find an instant solution to the stark reality of our resources and fulfillment capacity., That's not a true business because it represents an imminent cliff that no real business would ignore.

I stopped promoting myself as a "DJ" years ago. I'm TALENT. Most of the time now that talent is technical, industrial, or creative, but it was always there even when I was focused simply on the performative role. When a venue approached me about being the "House DJ" I didn't hesitate to say yes. I also recommended they hire at least one other company in parallel so customer's had choices other than simply whom I alone had available, It was steady reliable income for more than simply weddings, a great source of continuous referrals and references, and steady work for other DJs working with me. It really had no impact on my ability to continue with my own preferred bookings, No one was requires to use a "house" DJ - it was simply an option to help people manage their costs and utilize services already vetted by the venue itself. For me, it gave me wider access to many more 'off season' and non-wedding bookings that were otherwise never going to intersect with my advertising in that per-internet era.
 
Why do DJs brag about being booked…
but never brag about being profitable?

I’ll wait.
Most dj's work for average or below average pay... therefore, to sound impressive they talk about quantity. I actually talk more about how little I work compared to many in my area (most of my peers here do around 100-125 events, whereas I do 60ish).

Profitability also relies on people knowing their numbers... which most people genuinely have no clue until the end of the year when they gotta tell their accountant their expenses.
 
Why can't I be both?

All of these labels are rooted in ego or self-image rather than intention or operational reality.
There is intention when being a specialist vs a handyman. The specialist is able to work less and make more. That has nothing to do with ego and everything to do with lifestyle. I used to get excited about doing lots of events, whereas nowadays, where I have a family and where I find myself enjoying certain events over others... I want to work less, not more. I'd prefer to specialize in what I do enjoy (weddings with certain style crowds and packages of certain parameters), work less than I used to, and make much much more. That's intentional. Being a "wedding dj" and marketing that "specialty"allows me to do that vs being a generic dj getting smaller gigs for literally half the price and working 2x more.
 
Because most don’t treat it like a business, no business plan, no idea what their true costs are.
Let say it’s a Friday night bar / club gig, pay us $300
Assume parking is easy no cost and you have to supply the gear.
4 hour gig
Time costs
Gig prep minimal , go over gear make sure it’s all functioning properly change ant batteries charge any rechargeable devices/lighting, make sure you have the proper music latest hits what trending in your area, load gear.
Let’s call it 2 hours
Drive to gig
1/2 hour may vary

Load in and set up
Minimum 1 hour
Play set
4 hours
Tear down load up
1 hour estimate
Drive home
1/2 hour may vary
Unload and put away gear
1/2 hour estimate
That’s 8 1/2 hours
Just of $35 an hour
- taxes $75
-Fuel $10
-wear and tear on vehicle -$10
- wear and tear on gear - $10
-set aside to purchase new gear -$30 my goal is 10% of gross set aside for new gear
I’m sure I’m missing something
$135 in costs

Brings you $165 profit gig just over $19 an hour not very good when the local McDonald’s pays $17 an hour
This is totally bullshit.

I did club gigs at $150 /night. 3 nights a week: annual gross $22,500.
If that sounds low it was because the year was 1983.
In today's dollar that's: $73,220. (. . . and we're still only counting those 3 club nights)

I see musicians playing out in various locations today for about $150 /gig. You know what they all have in common? They're teenagers! High School kids cutting their chops or honing their skills on their instrument of choice with actual live experience. Middle school kids playing 'DJ' at their own school dances. I know - because I often support young talent when a good opportunity comes their way..

You've got made up numbers in that diatribe that just don't need to exist. 10% of gross for new gear? I finance gear (often at 0%) forward against new business, The first job typically pays the bill in full - but I don't pay it off early because that would just be stupid. A $3,600 item paid over 3 years at 0% is just $100 /month is paying for itself every time it goes out. By the time it's finally paid it's produced so very much more than that in income. If it's well cared for and no longer needed I can even recover much of the original cost by re-selling it. Renting very expensive gear can be even better, utilizing it at just 10% or less of the actual purchase value.
 
Last edited:
There is intention when being a specialist vs a handyman. The specialist is able to work less and make more. That has nothing to do with ego and everything to do with lifestyle. I used to get excited about doing lots of events, whereas nowadays, where I have a family and where I find myself enjoying certain events over others... I want to work less, not more. I'd prefer to specialize in what I do enjoy (weddings with certain style crowds and packages of certain parameters), work less than I used to, and make much much more. That's intentional. Being a "wedding dj" and marketing that "specialty"allows me to do that vs being a generic dj getting smaller gigs for literally half the price and working 2x more.
I don't think of you as specialist. I think of you as a boutique item. What you do is very retail.
Presentation
and skills are not the same thing. As you suggest - you prefer to posture in style - but that itself is not a skill - it's a proposition and it has a limited if even fragile life span.

One thing that really stands out is the constant references to: "generic DJ(s) getting smaller gigs for literally half the price." It's virtually impossible for you to describe your service without inserting that reference like it's some kind of yard stick. I don't know any skilled professionals who actually present/speak that way.

An auto mechanic may also have a specialty - but there is always training, certification, continuing education, and clearly defined skills. There are licenses, bonds, and other qualifications that have to be met to do auto repair for hire and make a commercial business out of it.

Even a 'handyman' has to post a surety bond with the state to operate legally. Electrician, Plumber, Developer,, Real Estate Agents, Home Inspectors - they are all licensed and bonded professions.

No such requirement exists in the U.S. for people playing per-recorded music for a fee.
 
Last edited:
I don;t think of you as specialist. I think of you as a boutique item. What you do is very retail.
Presentation
and skills are not the same thing. As you suggest - you prefer to posture in style - but that itself is not a skill - it's a proposition and it has a limited if even fragile life span.

One thing that really stands out is the constant referecnes to: "generic dj(s) getting smaller gigs for literally half the price." It's virtually impossible for you to describe your servcie without inserting that reference like its; sme kind of yard stick. I don't know any skilled profesionals who actua;y present/speak that way.

An auto mechanic may also have a specialty - but there is always training, certification, continuing education, and clearly defined skills. There are licenses, bonds, and other qualifications that have to be met to do auto repair for hire and make a commercial business out of it.

Even a 'handyman' has to post a surety bond with the state to operate legally. Electrician, Plumber, Developer,, Real Estate Agents, Home Inspectors - they are all licensed and bonded professions.

No such requirement exists in the U.S. for people playing per-recorded music for a fee.
You not viewing me or others as a specialist is fine, as That's your perception as someone who is in the industry... but to the consumer, the conversation or perception is more along the lines of "all he does is weddings" or, "oh this is the guy you want for your wedding, hes the best at them". That's what I mean by "specialty"... in the eyes of the consumer and from a marketing perspective.

You're going the more literal route it seems as in nothing we do is a specialty compared to that of a lawyer or doctor or anything that has more a more formal education or training, as if that is the standard. You tend to really belittle the occupation of a dj... for what reason I dk. Ironically, many "wedding" dj's I know make more than the average doctor... so if you wanna call it niche marketing as opposed to being a specialist since this profession doesn't meet that standard... that's fine... I honestly just care about what I put in my pocket and to use my time as effectively as possible.
 
It's all about what works best for you as a DJ. Some do well in a bar or club. Others do well at weddings like Taso and others do well at other events. Back in the 80's in Newark, NJ there was Club Zanzibar. Tony Humphreys was the DJ who played there on Saturday nights. He was getting paid $1,500 and that was great money at that time. He became a legend and he's still DJing. I saw him this past summer. I can remember we used applaud him after he would finish a set.

Also keep in mind there are those who are better at doing a certain kind of event than another kind of event. I remember a song by Steve Arrington called Nobody Can Be You But You. That fits for this discussion.
 
It's all about what works best for you as a DJ. Some do well in a bar or club. Others do well at weddings like Taso and others do well at other events. Back in the 80's in Newark, NJ there was Club Zanzibar. Tony Humphreys was the DJ who played there on Saturday nights. He was getting paid $1,500 and that was great money at that time. He became a legend and he's still DJing. I saw him this past summer. I can remember we used applaud him after he would finish a set.

Also keep in mind there are those who are better at doing a certain kind of event than another kind of event. I remember a song by Steve Arrington called Nobody Can Be You But You. That fits for this discussion.
What does this have to do with DJs who profess about being busy but not about being profitable? What do you personally do to make sure your gigs are profitable year after year
 
  • Like
Reactions: sonic-vision
Why can't I be both?

You can try.

But the reason fine dining restaurants do a pre-fixe menu at $375 per person is that they have a capacity constraint on seats in the restaurant. The same person can't put out those meals and a $5 burger for the bar next door. If I can only do one of those jobs in a day, I have to choose the one that has the most value to me.

If your game is I'll just find all of those customers and hire the guy to cook the food, you'll eventually bump up against the threshold where food moves from a commodity to being prized because it's special in some way. You might as well just be Taskrabbit/Yelp/Angie's list at that point because you're just pointing them to the person that can help and trying to monetize your cut. And maybe you think that's where your actual talent is - finding providers and connecting them with people that need a service.

You make it really clear through your posts that you don't think any provider of recorded music is special. So if you assume this is a commodity service, then it doesn't matter who shows up to play the music as long as they are professional enough and can take instructions. You seem to think hiring DJs is like hiring a line cook.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sonic-vision
You not viewing me or others as a specialist is fine, as That's your perception as someone who is in the industry... but to the consumer, the conversation or perception is more along the lines of "all he does is weddings" or, "oh this is the guy you want for your wedding, hes the best at them". That's what I mean by "specialty"... in the eyes of the consumer and from a marketing perspective.

You're going the more literal route it seems as in nothing we do is a specialty compared to that of a lawyer or doctor or anything that has more a more formal education or training, as if that is the standard. You tend to really belittle the occupation of a dj... for what reason I dk. Ironically, many "wedding" dj's I know make more than the average doctor... so if you wanna call it niche marketing as opposed to being a specialist since this profession doesn't meet that standard... that's fine... I honestly just care about what I put in my pocket and to use my time as effectively as possible.
I'm going the route of not comparing DJs to surgeons or lawyers., That's absurd and desperate. What those professions due is nowhere close to being as fragile as DJ entertainment.

The glaring contradiction is this limit of 60 gigs. If your DJ model is outpacing doctors and lawyers then why haven't you expanded it into a full time business doing hundreds of events each year? There's no need for you to do more than 60 personally, so why haven't you simply replicated this into a larger business as so many other talented DJs and entertainers have done? You seem to be operating as a hit and run.

Lawyers create law firms. Doctors build hospitals. What's holding you back?