I'm considering getting a 18" Harbinger sub.

6

Proformance said:

I'm going the route of not comparing DJs to surgeons or lawyers., That's absurd and desperate. What those professions due is nowhere close to being as fragile as DJ entertainment.

The glaring contradiction is this limit of 60 gigs. If your DJ model is outpacing doctors and lawyers then why haven't you expanded it into a full time business doing hundreds of events each year? There's no need for you to do more than 60 personally, so why haven't you simply replicated this into a larger business as so many other talented DJs and entertainers have done? You seem to be operating as a hit and run.

Lawyers create law firms. Doctors build hospitals. What's holding you back?

Click to expand...

The limit is self imposed. It provides the balance I enjoy at the income levels I want… and of course I still sometimes bend my own rules by doing 70 last year… but anything beyond 60 is literally on a case by case basis. There are others that bring in similar gross revenues as I do with doing only 40 events a year. To me that’s more attractive than examples you share of doing more.

What I won’t do is create a larger business model handling events where I’m not there. Why… I just don’t want to. I used to do that ten years ago and I genuinely hated having the responsibility of events I was not at. Simple as that. Not everything needs to be scaled to make it successful. There are wedding planners who literally do only 3 or 4 weddings a year… yet they’re each $5M+. Is there something wrong with that model? Or photographers who only do 15 weddings a year at $20k each. Great talent has value, why can’t we recognize that exists in the wedding world as DJs?

Albatross said:

If I can only do one of those jobs . . . . . in a day, I have to choose the one that has the most value to me.

Click to expand...

Why are you only doing one job a day?

Your restaurant example is flawed because even a single sitting is comprised of MULTIPLE customers. That restaurant is also most likely one of many other holdings under unique names.

The next time you are working a wedding take note of the following: the bar and restaurant with it's staff is serving a hundred or more customers in a one-to-one relationship. The DJ, is serving up a single order placed by just one customer.

The whole one job a day is self-defeating. If I am generating referrals and turning away busines then I am simply committing occupational suicide by slow self suffocation. What's the point of having great service if I can't teach other people to deliver it?

djtaso said:

why can’t we recognize imagine that exists in the wedding world as DJs?

Click to expand...

I fixed that for ya.

Let me see if I can keep up:
Our current comparison model/inspiration is a $5M wedding planner?

I have no gripe with DJ Paris Hilton, but she's not my inspiration.

Proformance said:

Why are you only doing one job a day?

Click to expand...

I haven't figured out how to break the laws of space and time to be two places at once yet, but as soon as I figure it out I'll be sure to do many.

You are treating turning people away as if it's the dumbest thing that has ever happened. Yet, look at how desirable all the higher education programs with low acceptance rates become. Look at the fact that Rolex has literal waiting lists to buy a $10,000 watch.

I don't mind turning away business at all, nor do I mind telling someone I'm not the right fit for them if I'm not.

My retainer was half the total fee.
Balance no less than two weeks before event.
Mixxy, there are people that have money to spend. Raise your prices!

sonic-vision said:

Mixxy, there are people that have money to spend.

Click to expand...

If you could introduce him to them, that might help

Albatross said:

I haven't figured out how to break the laws of space and time to be two places at once yet, but as soon as I figure it out I'll be sure to do many.

You are treating turning people away as if it's the dumbest thing that has ever happened. Yet, look at how desirable all the higher education programs with low acceptance rates become. Look at the fact that Rolex has literal waiting lists to buy a $10,000 watch.

I don't mind turning away business at all, nor do I mind telling someone I'm not the right fit for them if I'm not.

Click to expand...

It's not a physics problem, it's an employment and resource issue. Turning people away as a DJ is not itself a hallmark of sophistication.

How ridiculous is the comparison to a college or University? A higher education program is not at risk of default when one persons unmaintained van breaks down. Your experience probably felt a lot different, and had it not worked out - how sophisticated would the problem have seemed to that customer?

No matter how illustrious the individual fees may seem - a one man band is a job not a business. As business scholars might say: "if it can't be repeated and delivered by others then what we've created is a job - not a business.

Even the language used here makes that plain: "I've booked a job on. . ." or "my next gig is . . ." These are one off descriptions. What are the odds that you will one day sell this "business" as opposed to merely selling the equipment?

Proformance said:

It's not a physics problem, it's an employment and resource issue. Turning people away as a DJ is not itself a hallmark of sophistication.

How ridiculous is the comparison to a college or University? A higher education program is not at risk of default when one persons unmaintained van breaks down. Your experience probably felt a lot different, and had it not worked out - how sophisticated would the problem have seemed to that customer?

No matter how illustrious the individual fees may seem - a one man band is a job not a business. As business scholars might say: "if it can't be repeated and delivered by others then what we've created is a job - not a business.

Even the language used here makes that plain: "I've booked a job on. . ." or "my next gig is . . ." These are one off descriptions. What are the odds that you will one day sell this "business" as opposed to merely selling the equipment?

Click to expand...

It has almost zero resale value as a business. Many service businesses are just worth the equipment. What's your point?

If you want to nitpick whether we call it a job or a business go right ahead.

I have the privilege to choose what kind of work I want to pursue, and what work I want to turn away. That's exactly what I was hoping for in this particular venture. Your approval of my process is thankfully not one of the things I'm seeking.

Sold my webpage along with my casino event biz that included my DJ biz.
All casino equipment was sold. Kept my sound equpment. Wasn't offered what I was asking.
Pro: are you in the spin zone?

Proformance said:

I'm going the route of not comparing DJs to surgeons or lawyers., That's absurd and desperate. What those professions due is nowhere close to being as fragile as DJ entertainment.

The glaring contradiction is this limit of 60 gigs. If your DJ model is outpacing doctors and lawyers then why haven't you expanded it into a full time business doing hundreds of events each year? There's no need for you to do more than 60 personally, so why haven't you simply replicated this into a larger business as so many other talented DJs and entertainers have done? You seem to be operating as a hit and run.

Lawyers create law firms. Doctors build hospitals. What's holding you back?

Click to expand...

My guess would be reliable talent I tried to multiop about 16 years ago I couldn’t find people that would reliably show up let alone have the skills and talent to replicate what I do. In the end my year long attempt at this hurt my reputation

sonic-vision said:

Sold my webpage along with my casino event biz that included my DJ biz.
All casino equipment was sold. Kept my sound equpment. Wasn't offered what I was asking.
Pro: are you in the spin zone?

Click to expand...

I don't know what a 'spin zone' is.
How long was the active client list that sold with that casino Biz? ( . . . or was it just equipment?)

Food for thought:
If a mobile DJ books only 24% of the available calendar with customers hosting one-off wedding events - where's the 'business equity' ?? It's certainly not going to be in the already depreciated used gear, is it? An expired prior customer list ??

My conversion from DJ to AV / Event Tech. was a persistent and ongoing intention because even when booking over 100 DJ gigs a year it didn't take long to realize that Wedding and other DJ gigs have little to no forward momentum in career terms. Referrals are nice, but they are a niche that is ultimately self-defeating from a vocational standpoint. Like an echo, they fade with time, and the personality (actors) age out of the role.

Relationships on the other hand, are sources of business that stay with me for years, and even decades with recurring work. For example, one client just settled the balance on their 2025 bookings account at $42,000. That's ONE client and ONE season. Other such customers have been with me for years or decades - and when I sell the "business" this is the thing to which that term applies: an existing client list and operations still in full forward motion. I will stay on as a consultant and client liaison during a period of transition to insure that the value of the client list is fully realized and secured by the new operators. Hell, I may even become a part time employee.

I can't really well do that with weddings unless our actual clients are the venues and planners rather than the couple. Furthermore, if I promote myself as the actual product then the business value is not there when I want to step away. My most recent wedding invoice ($4,700) was paid for by the bride's family but, I was actually referred by the venue and ultimately contracted by the independent planner, not the bride. (I don't recall if I even met the bride.)

The important factor for my interests - is that the internet played no part in this booking, save for the ability to send & receive emails, documents etc. It was entirely personal referrals, and known references. The bride asked: "who did that . . previous event," the club manger gave my contact info, the planner requested a quote, and recommended for hire.

This is business that has a more attractive transfer value. Selling won't make me rich - but, it has value because it provides the next proprietor with a train that is already moving with committed passengers already on-board, receivables, and a calculable future, with gear that is still up to date, and reliable commercial alliances, allies, and suppliers.

Proformance said:

I don't know what a 'spin zone' is.
How long was the active client list that sold with that casino Biz? ( . . . or was it just equipment?)

Food for thought:
If a mobile DJ books only 24% of the available calendar with customers hosting one-off wedding events - where's the 'business equity' ?? It's certainly not going to be in the already depreciated used gear, is it? An expired prior customer list ??

My conversion from DJ to AV / Event Tech. was a persistent and ongoing intention because even when booking over 100 DJ gigs a year it didn't take long to realize that Wedding and other DJ gigs have little to no forward momentum in career terms. Referrals are nice, but they are a niche that is ultimately self-defeating from a vocational standpoint. Like an echo, they fade with time, and the personality (actors) age out of the role.

Relationships on the other hand, are sources of business that stay with me for years, and even decades with recurring work. For example, one client just settled the balance on their 2025 bookings account at $42,000. That's ONE client and ONE season. Other such customers have been with me for years or decades - and when I sell the "business" this is the thing to which that term applies: an existing client list and operations still in full forward motion. I will stay on as a consultant and client liaison during a period of transition to insure that the value of the client list is fully realized and secured by the new operators. Hell, I may even become a part time employee.

I can't really well do that with weddings unless our actual clients are the venues and planners rather than the couple. Furthermore, if I promote myself as the actual product then the business value is not there when I want to step away. My most recent wedding invoice ($4,700) was paid for by the bride's family but, I was actually referred by the venue and ultimately contracted by the independent planner, not the bride. (I don't recall if I even met the bride.)

The important factor for my interests - is that the internet played no part in this booking, save for the ability to send & receive emails, documents etc. It was entirely personal referrals, and known references. The bride asked: "who did that . . previous event," the club manger gave my contact info, the planner requested a quote, and recommended for hire.

This is business that has a more attractive transfer value. Selling won't make me rich - but, it has value because it provides the next proprietor with a train that is already moving with committed passengers already on-board, receivables, and a calculable future, with gear that is still up to date, and reliable commercial alliances, allies, and suppliers.

Click to expand...

We’ve heard this from you many many times now. We get it, we understand. We don’t need a in depth explanation once a week on how you think the way you do it is the best and only way it should be done.

tunes4046 said:

My guess would be reliable talent I tried to multiop about 16 years ago I couldn’t find people that would reliably show up let alone have the skills and talent to replicate what I do. In the end my year long attempt at this hurt my reputation

Click to expand...

In a general sense (based on market observation rather than an actual window to your specific experience . . )

"Replicating what I do . ." would be the first mistake. If we are running a talent based operation then we have to allow space for individual talent to blossom; even (and especially) when that talent might even exceed our own.

I did production and DJ service for various multi-ops for many years and the most successful teams are the ones allowed to produce on their own terms. The emcee has to trust me and I have to trust him/her to both follow and lead in collaborative ways that advance each of our own best talents. The most destructive collaborations are those in which we are constrained to comply with someone else's routine or style. Imagine for example, if a movie producer gave the casting director an implied demand that every leading male resemble Harrison Ford.

"Have the skills and talent . ." is something that has to be taught, demonstrated, and practiced with ongoing support. New hires never work alone, they have to be part of a team with qualified support and direction for more than a year before taking a more leadership role on gigs or with other event crew. If you move too fast, or operate a "multi-op" using solo DJs (rather than teams) the enthusiasm and reward just isn't there for the employee.

"People that reliably show up . . . " is a personnel management issue. We can't just hire someone looking for a part time job. We need young people for whom entertainment is a vocation. We need to hire people seeking a growth experience and not simply a few extra bucks on the side. Most of the young people (and I mean starting as teen-agers) I worked with in multi-op operations have gone on to careers in professional entertainment. Many I still see if they have remained in my area. Two are well recognized regional radio personalities, one runs her own dance studio, another went on to dance for major cruise line productions, others work for Disney or Universal, or have been part of the "talent show" programming that has dominated television for so many years. I had lunch last week with two former high-school students now in college. One is studying lighting design and is almost sure to end up on Broadway. His skills already exceeded his peers by miles, and even my own when I first met him at his ripe old age of fourteen! For those that worked in the mobile DJ realm - as DJs, dancers, or emcees - I first met them when they were only teenagers. In fact, keeping eyes on the dance floor wasn't simply about keeping the momentum going - it was also about spotting and protecting our younger dancers from inappropriate touching or unruly guests behavior. That's just how early in life some of the worlds best and most reliable talent actually gets started. Adults just looking for a part time gig that pays better than Uber don't have the motivation to be good DJs or entertainers. The social event business depends on finding real entertainers during that period of development where they are serious, bold, and eager for an audience.

If this sounds daunting, don't sweat it. Many of the people running these entertainment bureaus are not part time DJs - they are corporate owners that hold graduate degrees in business management, and there is a full time office staff running things.

Proformance said:

In a general sense (based on market observation rather than an actual window to your specific experience . . )

"Replicating what I do . ." would be the first mistake. If we are running a talent based operation then we have to allow space for individual talent to blossom; even (and especially) when that talent might even exceed our own.

I did production and DJ service for various multi-ops for many years and the most successful teams are the ones allowed to produce on their own terms. The emcee has to trust me and I have to trust him/her to both follow and lead in collaborative ways that advance each of our own best talents. The most destructive collaborations are those in which we are constrained to comply with someone else's routine or style. Imagine for example, if a movie producer gave the casting director an implied demand that every leading male resemble Harrison Ford.

"Have the skills and talent . ." is something that has to be taught, demonstrated, and practiced with ongoing support. New hires never work alone, they have to be part of a team with qualified support and direction for more than a year before taking a more leadership role on gigs or with other event crew. If you move too fast, or operate a "multi-op" using solo DJs (rather than teams) the enthusiasm and reward just isn't there for the employee.

"People that reliably show up . . . " is a personnel management issue. We can't just hire someone looking for a part time job. We need young people for whom entertainment is a vocation. We need to hire people seeking a growth experience and not simply a few extra bucks on the side. Most of the young people (and I mean starting as teen-agers) I worked with in multi-op operations have gone on to careers in professional entertainment. Many I still see if they have remained in my area. Two are well recognized regional radio personalities, one runs her own dance studio, another went on to dance for major cruise line productions, others work for Disney or Universal, or have been part of the "talent show" programming that has dominated television for so many years. I had lunch last week with two former high-school students now in college. One is studying lighting design and is almost sure to end up on Broadway. His skills already exceed most of hos peers by quite a bit. For those that worked in the mobile DJ realm - as DJs, dancers, or emcees - I first met them when they were only teenagers. In fact, keeping eyes on the dance floor wasn't simply about keeping the momentum going - it was also about spotting and protecting our younger dancers from inappropriate touching or behavior from guests. That's just how early in life some of the worlds best talent actually gets started.

If this sounds daunting, don't sweat it. Many of the people running these entertainment bureaus are not part time DJs - they are corporate owners that hold graduate degrees in business management, and there is a full time office staff running things.

Click to expand...

It much easier to find people in a major metropolitan area that a town of 2100 people, But again you know the best course of action for everyone in every situation

tunes4046 said:

We’ve heard this from you many many times now. We get it, we understand. We don’t need a in depth explanation once a week on how you think the way you do it is the best and only way it should be done.

Click to expand...

You assume too much.
Retired DJs are not the intended readers. That train has left the station.
Welcome to the World Wide - internet!

tunes4046 said:

It much easier to find people in a major metropolitan area that a town of 2100 people, But again you know the best course of action for everyone in every situation

Click to expand...

Well yeah, I think having a potential audience and potential employees would be kind of important if my business plan was entertainment.

Not my choice - not my problem.

Proformance said:

Well yeah, I think having a potential audience and potential employees would be kind of important if my business plan was entertainment.

Not my choice - not my problem.

Click to expand...

DJ was /is a part of my income stream, I make far more money from the two storage facilities and 3 car wash’s I own and to business take far less time to run, I’ve always been more interested in businesses that take less time and earn far greater income