I'm going to try and step in for Rox here (Update: I don't have to - he posted next)
I don't think he was wrong for assuming - we're using similar information, that we have seen and heard for others in similar situations. Could you be an oddball that matches others situations, absolutely.
Rox started out the same as everyone else, by getting out there and doing it - although I don't think many of his (nor mine) were for $150.00.
I also don't think he's bitter about DJ's low balling him - I think he's trying to inform you that you're low balling yourself.
So 300.00 is not more affordable, compared to 400 - 500 (for other DJ's)?
Personally, 20 years of sales experience means crap if you weren't selling DJ or entertainment services. If anything, you would know (from being a salesman) that you get what you pay for, hence your prices should have been in line with the others. If all cars cost 30,000 dollars and one guy is selling it for 10,000 - would you not assume that something may be wrong with it - why are they giving it away for that price? Are they losing money? If he's selling it for 10k, why aren't the others? etc, etc. Personally, this would force me over to one of the 30k cars - all kinds of alarms would be going off in my head. Honestly, do you ever think you'll get a ferrari (100k) for the price of a prius (30k)?
Absolutely correct, there is no better advertising than word of mouth - especially when people know they can get something for nothing. Again, I can't compete with free - but free can't compete with me and the infamous Rule #1, You Get What You Pay For. Do you think you're saving the world by dropping prices? You're actually costing yourself money and if you don't believe me, get Rick to give you a business model view of this scenario.
I agree with this statement.
Depending on how you run your business, you may be profitable at $100.00 per hour. You were not at $100.00 per hour though, you were at $50.00 per hour. That's not profitable.
I think we need to clarify something in this paragraph. This wasn't a party for 'A' 12 year old. This was a party for multiple 12 year olds. Regardless of where it is or for however long it is, it SHOULD have been at least 300 for a lead, let alone a stranger. In your first post, you said a 'lead from a friend' - to me, that is a stranger. A lead from my uncle is - you guessed it, a stranger. Some of us have referral fee's - where do you think the referral fee goes? If you drop your price, it comes out of your pocket.
Not once did you mention this was "a favor for one of my very best friends (who is a web designer and IT Director that designed my website and does all of my internet optimization for free)." This might have changed Rox's reply a bit, as well as mine. It's hard to give advice or opinions if you don't provide all the important information. You asked our advice, and most of us said - if your competition is in x, y, z range then that's probably where you should be. ANY self respecting, professional grade DJ would realize that his or her equipment, time, media costs, services, etc are well worth at least that.
We don't feel that we are low balling (nor high balling) our customers either, yet most of us, if not all of us, are in a much higher price range.
I have to make an educated guess (by this message) that you charge 300 - 350 for a Wedding? I can't figure out for the life of me how (nor why) you think this is ok.
We don't low ball our pricing. There are others cheaper than 150 for a 3 hour show? Lord help us!
I try to specialize in Weddings so I take this one personally. Bluntly, I despise people that look at Weddings like this. Some of us strive to make that day the very best it can be. We spend hours and hours on preparing for this day and then people like you get 'sick' over how much we charge for it. Go perform your job all week and get paid for 1 day of it and then let's see if you have the same opinion. If you don't value your (nor your clients) time and event (let alone, equipment, media, service, etc, etc), then please stay out of the wedding arena, much less other arena's. By not understanding nor accepting this, you're actually hurting yourself and the rest of us - which you can feel free to do because in time, you'll either burnout like all the others, or you'll realize that we speak the truth and fall in line - and help defend and practice what we preach.
Let's do some simple math: using your price of 100.00 per hour for a 695.00 wedding, this would cover 6.95 hours of service. Most receptions are 4 hours with 1 hour to setup and 1 hour to tear down (some need more than that). That's 6 hours. Now add in all the hours you spent talking to the client or working on documents, costs and time for obtaining needed music, other requirements, etc. Unless you can accomplish this all in under .95 hours, then you're now under your own rate of 100.00 per hour.
This same calculation using 50.00 per hour brings the show cost down to 347.50 for the same amount of work, purchasing, etc. I SERIOUSLY doubt you're a threat to my survival at either rate. To boot, your rate is also less than 50.00 per hour by the time you got done with all the extra stuff involved with a wedding.
One thing I have discovered, people are not afraid to invest in quality and know it when they see it. If you think you're qualified, then I think we challenge you to raise your prices to that of your competitors and find out.
PS: I don't think ANY of my weddings have felt sick over the price of their shows - as evidenced by repeat parties, referrals, etc.
To you, maybe the Wedding is a typical show that you show up, get paid for and leave. To us, it's a very significant event that takes lots of work and coordination. I'm pretty certain I can speak for all of us when I say our time is valuable. Is yours not?
I do too but 150 doesn't buy much music nor does it cover your cost for the 500.00 year. Now lets add in taxes you will have to pay, equipment costs, fuel, vehicle insurance, food, drinks, etc. FYI - I started collecting my music 25 years ago - that doesn't help me with the cost of current music you might need for a 12 year old party.
He tried to give you good advice - we all have. Rox is just a little more blunt about some things.
I TOTALLY disagree. For some people, that may be their prime purpose. Rick's is to drink and program. We try to help each other here on this forum however (analogy time), you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink it.
I don't.
Agreed.
Agreed.
TOTALLY AGREED - but it should be more like 66% -70% - and it wasn't a friend of a friend. According to the post, it was a lead from a friend. There is a difference.
This goes back to not providing us enough initial insight and also hoping he gives a 'lead' of yours a huge discount.
*Original Post and replies*
I don't think he was wrong for assuming - we're using similar information, that we have seen and heard for others in similar situations. Could you be an oddball that matches others situations, absolutely.
Rox started out the same as everyone else, by getting out there and doing it - although I don't think many of his (nor mine) were for $150.00.
I also don't think he's bitter about DJ's low balling him - I think he's trying to inform you that you're low balling yourself.
So 300.00 is not more affordable, compared to 400 - 500 (for other DJ's)?
Personally, 20 years of sales experience means crap if you weren't selling DJ or entertainment services. If anything, you would know (from being a salesman) that you get what you pay for, hence your prices should have been in line with the others. If all cars cost 30,000 dollars and one guy is selling it for 10,000 - would you not assume that something may be wrong with it - why are they giving it away for that price? Are they losing money? If he's selling it for 10k, why aren't the others? etc, etc. Personally, this would force me over to one of the 30k cars - all kinds of alarms would be going off in my head. Honestly, do you ever think you'll get a ferrari (100k) for the price of a prius (30k)?
Absolutely correct, there is no better advertising than word of mouth - especially when people know they can get something for nothing. Again, I can't compete with free - but free can't compete with me and the infamous Rule #1, You Get What You Pay For. Do you think you're saving the world by dropping prices? You're actually costing yourself money and if you don't believe me, get Rick to give you a business model view of this scenario.
I agree with this statement.
Depending on how you run your business, you may be profitable at $100.00 per hour. You were not at $100.00 per hour though, you were at $50.00 per hour. That's not profitable.
I think we need to clarify something in this paragraph. This wasn't a party for 'A' 12 year old. This was a party for multiple 12 year olds. Regardless of where it is or for however long it is, it SHOULD have been at least 300 for a lead, let alone a stranger. In your first post, you said a 'lead from a friend' - to me, that is a stranger. A lead from my uncle is - you guessed it, a stranger. Some of us have referral fee's - where do you think the referral fee goes? If you drop your price, it comes out of your pocket.
Not once did you mention this was "a favor for one of my very best friends (who is a web designer and IT Director that designed my website and does all of my internet optimization for free)." This might have changed Rox's reply a bit, as well as mine. It's hard to give advice or opinions if you don't provide all the important information. You asked our advice, and most of us said - if your competition is in x, y, z range then that's probably where you should be. ANY self respecting, professional grade DJ would realize that his or her equipment, time, media costs, services, etc are well worth at least that.
We don't feel that we are low balling (nor high balling) our customers either, yet most of us, if not all of us, are in a much higher price range.
I have to make an educated guess (by this message) that you charge 300 - 350 for a Wedding? I can't figure out for the life of me how (nor why) you think this is ok.
We don't low ball our pricing. There are others cheaper than 150 for a 3 hour show? Lord help us!
I try to specialize in Weddings so I take this one personally. Bluntly, I despise people that look at Weddings like this. Some of us strive to make that day the very best it can be. We spend hours and hours on preparing for this day and then people like you get 'sick' over how much we charge for it. Go perform your job all week and get paid for 1 day of it and then let's see if you have the same opinion. If you don't value your (nor your clients) time and event (let alone, equipment, media, service, etc, etc), then please stay out of the wedding arena, much less other arena's. By not understanding nor accepting this, you're actually hurting yourself and the rest of us - which you can feel free to do because in time, you'll either burnout like all the others, or you'll realize that we speak the truth and fall in line - and help defend and practice what we preach.
Let's do some simple math: using your price of 100.00 per hour for a 695.00 wedding, this would cover 6.95 hours of service. Most receptions are 4 hours with 1 hour to setup and 1 hour to tear down (some need more than that). That's 6 hours. Now add in all the hours you spent talking to the client or working on documents, costs and time for obtaining needed music, other requirements, etc. Unless you can accomplish this all in under .95 hours, then you're now under your own rate of 100.00 per hour.
This same calculation using 50.00 per hour brings the show cost down to 347.50 for the same amount of work, purchasing, etc. I SERIOUSLY doubt you're a threat to my survival at either rate. To boot, your rate is also less than 50.00 per hour by the time you got done with all the extra stuff involved with a wedding.
One thing I have discovered, people are not afraid to invest in quality and know it when they see it. If you think you're qualified, then I think we challenge you to raise your prices to that of your competitors and find out.
PS: I don't think ANY of my weddings have felt sick over the price of their shows - as evidenced by repeat parties, referrals, etc.
To you, maybe the Wedding is a typical show that you show up, get paid for and leave. To us, it's a very significant event that takes lots of work and coordination. I'm pretty certain I can speak for all of us when I say our time is valuable. Is yours not?
I do too but 150 doesn't buy much music nor does it cover your cost for the 500.00 year. Now lets add in taxes you will have to pay, equipment costs, fuel, vehicle insurance, food, drinks, etc. FYI - I started collecting my music 25 years ago - that doesn't help me with the cost of current music you might need for a 12 year old party.
He tried to give you good advice - we all have. Rox is just a little more blunt about some things.
I TOTALLY disagree. For some people, that may be their prime purpose. Rick's is to drink and program. We try to help each other here on this forum however (analogy time), you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink it.
I don't.
Agreed.
Agreed.
TOTALLY AGREED - but it should be more like 66% -70% - and it wasn't a friend of a friend. According to the post, it was a lead from a friend. There is a difference.
This goes back to not providing us enough initial insight and also hoping he gives a 'lead' of yours a huge discount.
*Original Post and replies*
