70% of something is better than...
- Thread starter Fred Wright
- Start date
Goodnight Wrote:
Goodnight:
What was your fallback if the "morning wedding" had wanted overtime?
Was the evening event supposed to be for "all I can afford is" $250.00??
Where did the additional $300.00 come from that required passing the hat? Was that required to get the origional contract of $250??
Numbers not adding up.
Goodnight:
What was your fallback if the "morning wedding" had wanted overtime?
Was the evening event supposed to be for "all I can afford is" $250.00??
Where did the additional $300.00 come from that required passing the hat? Was that required to get the origional contract of $250??
Numbers not adding up.
It's not a parting shot, get over yourself. It's about using price as a baseline for authenticity.
When a client calls you back and says: "My neighbor is going to do it for $200" ... they just might live next door to Skribbles.
All this finger pointing about "under-cutting" is largely a matter of perspective.
I've met plenty of people who are short on integrity but never a DJ who fit the definition of "unscrupulous".
When a client calls you back and says: "My neighbor is going to do it for $200" ... they just might live next door to Skribbles.
All this finger pointing about "under-cutting" is largely a matter of perspective.
I've met plenty of people who are short on integrity but never a DJ who fit the definition of "unscrupulous".
G
Guest
Guest
The hall had another event after the morning one. So no OT was possible.
Yes. That's all she said she could afford. All I was supposed to be was background music for a retirement party where most of the people had not seen each other for a while. The background consisted of classic rock and I was right around the corner from my house.
Sorry, I thought I said that it was from six to ten and they had the hall till midnight. My contract (signed at the venue) was for four hours. When folks started dancing 1/2 hour before I was ready to leave, they decided to ask me for OT. I told the lady in charge that it would be $150/hour and she passed the hat and collected $500.
The other factors I looked at in this was, since I was basically background music, I was going to treat it sort of like a bar gig. Bars around here pay $150 to $200 for five hours, so the $250 for four was putting me ahead of the game.
I also have to call tonight to follow up on two holiday parties I may be getting out of this and these folks know what my full price is.
Hmmm...
Then consider yourself lucky to be unware...rather than ignorant of their existence.
Not having unscrupulous MDJs that steal music or serial duplicate media for financial gain would be a bonus!
Fred, my sincerest apologies. Not an intended "jack" of your thread.
I contend that there are entities that find themselves forced to take 30% less due to serical duplicated media existing in their respective markets.
Another example of the race to zero.
G
Guest
Guest
I just booked a Wednesday 5:30-8:30 car show for the Dairy Queen. The local roller rink would usually bring music but they went under (literally, they demolished the place) a few months ago.
I gave them a discounted rate based on my normal rate because it is a wednesday night, home before 9. It's a Dairy queen 4 blocks from my house. The owners daughter was my sons teacher in Kindergarden and I asked how she was doing. The owner told me she was engaged. I am getting an information pack ready for her. Maybe get a wedding out of it also.
And I love old cars so I get paid, I get Ice cream, I get to look at old cars and I might get a wedding. It is about a 35% reduction but to me it is worth it.
Karl
I gave them a discounted rate based on my normal rate because it is a wednesday night, home before 9. It's a Dairy queen 4 blocks from my house. The owners daughter was my sons teacher in Kindergarden and I asked how she was doing. The owner told me she was engaged. I am getting an information pack ready for her. Maybe get a wedding out of it also.
And I love old cars so I get paid, I get Ice cream, I get to look at old cars and I might get a wedding. It is about a 35% reduction but to me it is worth it.
Karl
Dude,
You forget (possibly ignorant), that it is illegal for you to play store bought CD's or vinyl, at any gig for profit (on your part).
Do you use any?
What is the point of bitching, when in all honesty, you are probably breaking the law yourself?
Find another reason to hate those that are getting the best of you -- or better yet, find a way to do a better job, so you need not worry...
Just my .0002
Rick,
Thank you for asking the pivotal question.
This is where, as an industry, we are ethically & legally questionable.
I fully admit that I use store bought CDs. I also use TM Cent/Jones & RPM Top Hits. Do I download music from limewire...NOPE! Do I borrow music...rarely! I always seek to purchase an original copy of anything that is needed...IN ALL CASES. Out of print...sucks! Clients in those cases need to provide their own copy.
I & my staff unlike most MDJs may have been doing something unique over the past 2 decades.
We have kept the equivalent of BMI music logs of played selections for future reference and subject matter for a proposed music license.
No matter how much whitewash and b/s people sling on the matter. Purchasing music at least affords the copyright holder their due with regards to royalties, with the exception of music services. MDJs use music...therefore, they should pay a royalty for using it.
I for one, am striving for integrity...and I will hold all others to the same regard.
Why? Because it is the ethical thing to do.
Rick,
The rest of your post is material for another thread.
Thank you for asking the pivotal question.
This is where, as an industry, we are ethically & legally questionable.
I fully admit that I use store bought CDs. I also use TM Cent/Jones & RPM Top Hits. Do I download music from limewire...NOPE! Do I borrow music...rarely! I always seek to purchase an original copy of anything that is needed...IN ALL CASES. Out of print...sucks! Clients in those cases need to provide their own copy.
I & my staff unlike most MDJs may have been doing something unique over the past 2 decades.
We have kept the equivalent of BMI music logs of played selections for future reference and subject matter for a proposed music license.
No matter how much whitewash and b/s people sling on the matter. Purchasing music at least affords the copyright holder their due with regards to royalties, with the exception of music services. MDJs use music...therefore, they should pay a royalty for using it.
I for one, am striving for integrity...and I will hold all others to the same regard.
Why? Because it is the ethical thing to do.
Rick,
The rest of your post is material for another thread.
A possibility, yet highly unlikely. The odds of living next door to an eccentric, half-assed DJ like Wolfie are better, lol.
Dude, no apology is necessary. This is an open forum. We're all free to post our thoughts and ideas. Carry on, gentlemen.
In my market most don't pay for music let alone royalties on that music.
Mabye the royalties should be payed to the MDJ for promoting that music that would make a few more sign up to buy music
DjDennis
RIP- My Dad (2011), Sister (2013) and Mum (2017)
If a bride or Groom or a client called and said that they can get it cheaper after I quoted
I would also point out that if its that cheap, a deal that cheap is too good to be true could be one that could break what you want to do
I also would wish them luck as these are the going rates (by the way we have a dj company here that is doing this at present) are so low that I have heard that some Dj's refuse to work for them....
as they also say BUYER BEWARE!
I would also point out that if its that cheap, a deal that cheap is too good to be true could be one that could break what you want to do
I also would wish them luck as these are the going rates (by the way we have a dj company here that is doing this at present) are so low that I have heard that some Dj's refuse to work for them....
as they also say BUYER BEWARE!
In my market most don't pay for music let alone royalties on that music.
Mabye the royalties should be payed to the MDJ for promoting that music that would make a few more sign up to buy music
Jeff,
Paid pitchmen...? Aside from our not-being radio stations. It sounds very similar to payola. Which BTW, is a federal crime.
If it were possible... Who would profit the most?
Most likely larger multi's with mass exposure giving them even more market price influence.
G
Guest
Guest
In regard to Dennis' post:
I had a prospect call me and we did an interview; they did not bother to go through my quote generator. So I start showing them the packages; lowest o highest. After making the pitch the groom says, "Well I can get a DJ that will do all the stuff in that last package (I am charging $1,000) for $500." I asked him if he was sure that all was included and he said yes. I told him to go back to the other guy, have the other guy put it in writing with a MBG and I'll beat the price.
He went back to the other guy and the other guy would not put it in writing with an MBG. He signed with me.
I had a prospect call me and we did an interview; they did not bother to go through my quote generator. So I start showing them the packages; lowest o highest. After making the pitch the groom says, "Well I can get a DJ that will do all the stuff in that last package (I am charging $1,000) for $500." I asked him if he was sure that all was included and he said yes. I told him to go back to the other guy, have the other guy put it in writing with a MBG and I'll beat the price.
He went back to the other guy and the other guy would not put it in writing with an MBG. He signed with me.
I don't think it would be considered payola if it was done right across the board but thats another thread
Jeff, how would you propose the payments be made.
Currently, most MDJs don't even register their DBA...
Doing something across the board would depend on some form of registration acknowledgment...wouldn't it?
Otherwise...anyone with a printed business card could lay claim to being a music promoter with no feasible way for the music industry to track the promotion of their works.
Just a thought...
Currently, most MDJs don't even register their DBA...
Doing something across the board would depend on some form of registration acknowledgment...wouldn't it?
Otherwise...anyone with a printed business card could lay claim to being a music promoter with no feasible way for the music industry to track the promotion of their works.
Just a thought...
Actually, that's not correct. You cannot use store bought CDs in a public performance or broadcast without first purchasing an additional license to do so.
The warning on the label is to inform the consumer that the license included in the purchase price is for private use only.
If you are already paying the agency responsible for that publisher public performance fees covering their entire catalog, then your license would also extend too that store bought disc.
For a wedding DJ it is a non-issue because that type of event is not considered a public perfomance. The event belongs to the bride not the DJ - and she is not liable for performance fees even if she pays you a handsome fee.
But if you throw your own party and open the door to anyone willing to come in - then it is public and you are now considered a commercial establishment. This is the place where "profit" comes in.
- Important point missed by many - :
The Bride is holding a private not for profit event and she and her event are specifically and explicitly exempt, regardless of who she pays to help her pull it off.
This is why ASCAP and BMI don't issue licenses to mobile DJs - because 90% of what they do is either exempt or already covered by some other license such as those issued to educational institutions, etc.
Your open door party on the other hand, uses the music as the sole offering in exchange for profit from any willing member of the public who would attend.
Both conditions have to be met before a DJ is responsible for the royalty fees:
Public Performance
and
Not otherwise covered by an existing license or exclusion.
You getting paid is not the issue unless you are being paid to operate and deliver an otherwise unlicensed public performance.
With all due respect Bob, you'd make a crummy copyright lawyer
If anybody is in that hall, that was not specifically invited by the person who hired, and is paying you, then it becomes a public performance.
That could be a contracted bartender, photographer, videographer, etc.
If you really want to get down to nitty gritty stuff -- what about reporting the gifts the B&G got on their tax returns?
Let's face it, the whole thing is illegal if we read into every law on the book (other than the actual marriage itself).
The point I was trying to make, was why bitch, when there's a good thing going? If you bitch too loud, somebody may do something about it, and then everybody loses...
If anybody is in that hall, that was not specifically invited by the person who hired, and is paying you, then it becomes a public performance.
That could be a contracted bartender, photographer, videographer, etc.
If you really want to get down to nitty gritty stuff -- what about reporting the gifts the B&G got on their tax returns?
Let's face it, the whole thing is illegal if we read into every law on the book (other than the actual marriage itself).
The point I was trying to make, was why bitch, when there's a good thing going? If you bitch too loud, somebody may do something about it, and then everybody loses...
Should I give Naumkeag back to the Indians, too?
ROTFLMAO !!! ...then you better start wearing headphones because if anyone overhears your boom box your in big trouble mister!
I'm sorry, but that is the most odd technocratic babble I've ever heard on the subject. The entire notion is completely contrary to the intent of the law.
You can take what you want from what you read on a label. But the definition of law lies in "precedent" - which is a court's actual prior application and enforcement of the law.
There isn't a single precedent case that has ever been attempted against a private wedding event on such a ridiculous premise.
Can you imagine a Bride being sued for damages against what would originally be valued as a one time fee of about $35 because there was a bertender and some waitresses working her wedding?
The bartender et. al. and anyone hired to serve this event is considered a guest by class. The words "public" and private are also specifically defined within the copyright law with regard to how they should be applied.
You're joking right, or are we talking about billionaires?
Individuals may gift a family member up to $10,000 in any given year, and there is no reporting requirement for non cash gifts under $600.
LOL Besides, You could probably report your gifts a "like kind exchange" and offset them with the cost of the meal. Heck, why not itemize the whole thing under "gambling expenses" since you never get what you want anyway !!
ROTFLMAO !!! ...then you better start wearing headphones because if anyone overhears your boom box your in big trouble mister!
I'm sorry, but that is the most odd technocratic babble I've ever heard on the subject. The entire notion is completely contrary to the intent of the law.
You can take what you want from what you read on a label. But the definition of law lies in "precedent" - which is a court's actual prior application and enforcement of the law.
There isn't a single precedent case that has ever been attempted against a private wedding event on such a ridiculous premise.
Can you imagine a Bride being sued for damages against what would originally be valued as a one time fee of about $35 because there was a bertender and some waitresses working her wedding?
The bartender et. al. and anyone hired to serve this event is considered a guest by class. The words "public" and private are also specifically defined within the copyright law with regard to how they should be applied.
You're joking right, or are we talking about billionaires?
Individuals may gift a family member up to $10,000 in any given year, and there is no reporting requirement for non cash gifts under $600.
LOL Besides, You could probably report your gifts a "like kind exchange" and offset them with the cost of the meal. Heck, why not itemize the whole thing under "gambling expenses" since you never get what you want anyway !!
Regarding the 70%: If you were selling hard goods, you would consider the cost of the goods plus storage and other overhead, then add the profit margin that you require. The same should be true of a service business. If you can meet your margin after figuring in the cost of the job ( overhead including your equipment cost/depreciation/storage, transportation, wear and tear, etc. PLUS your time) than take it. If you can't meet your margin- don't.
The subjective part is your time. All else can pretty much be figured out. The question is: what cost do you set for your time alone? THAT'S the place where some get fuzzy. ( "Well, it's better than sitting home watching TV"). Bad news folks- We have a finite amount of time in this biz, and for life in general. Example: Say you know you're going to have 20 years in this business. Now pretend you're going to have two 4 hour gigs per week with 2 weeks off for vacation. This means that you will have 8,000 hours of chargeable time ( 400 / year ) to make your living AND build a retirement fund. What's your yearly income goal? ( Your living expenses plus money for retirement?) What's your retirement goal? If you have exactly 8000 hours to make those goals, what MUST your hourly fee be? Or just take your yearly average time in harness and extrapolate.....
Of course this example is way too simplistic- I let Dude do my heavy work.
The point is, our time DOES have a cost. You have a human, aging body and mind that is subject to wear and tear. Call it life depreciation.
As for my personal practices: If I were sitting at home and got an emergency fill-in phone call, I may or may not do it ( if I'm alone, I may, if not, probably not).
However, I would NOT book this sort of job in advance. Ever.
1) If you get referrals, and they talk to the client, they will be expecting the same rate.
2) My fees reflect the profit margin I need to meet my goals. If I can't meet those margins then my business is unsuccessful. Time to shut down and try something else.
Please keep in mind that my answer is based on that 30% reduction. I do have SOME room, just not that much.
The subjective part is your time. All else can pretty much be figured out. The question is: what cost do you set for your time alone? THAT'S the place where some get fuzzy. ( "Well, it's better than sitting home watching TV"). Bad news folks- We have a finite amount of time in this biz, and for life in general. Example: Say you know you're going to have 20 years in this business. Now pretend you're going to have two 4 hour gigs per week with 2 weeks off for vacation. This means that you will have 8,000 hours of chargeable time ( 400 / year ) to make your living AND build a retirement fund. What's your yearly income goal? ( Your living expenses plus money for retirement?) What's your retirement goal? If you have exactly 8000 hours to make those goals, what MUST your hourly fee be? Or just take your yearly average time in harness and extrapolate.....
Of course this example is way too simplistic- I let Dude do my heavy work.
The point is, our time DOES have a cost. You have a human, aging body and mind that is subject to wear and tear. Call it life depreciation.As for my personal practices: If I were sitting at home and got an emergency fill-in phone call, I may or may not do it ( if I'm alone, I may, if not, probably not
).However, I would NOT book this sort of job in advance. Ever.
1) If you get referrals, and they talk to the client, they will be expecting the same rate.
2) My fees reflect the profit margin I need to meet my goals. If I can't meet those margins then my business is unsuccessful. Time to shut down and try something else.
Please keep in mind that my answer is based on that 30% reduction. I do have SOME room, just not that much.
Joe:
Why not just find a way to reduce the profit margin you need to meet your goals? Why just shut it down when an adjustment in pricing and strategy could keep it going?
The profit margin in running a DJ business today is so much greater than it was back in the CDs only days.
Inventory cost a lot more, the equipment was more cumbersome and expensive and internet advertising hadn't yet become such a marketing force.
With a much greater margin nowadays, perhaps this is why the brides are questioning some price points? Certainly, it costs much less to start and maintain a DJ business today than it did 15 years ago. Prices had to reflect that reality.
Just playing devil's advocate.