New DJ Needs Help Selecting Speakers...

[oldschool]

Once you go Active, no longer will you be Unattractive ... or something like that ..

With careful rack set up. I can set up my passive set up just as fast as any powered system using less cabling and I can make any and all parameters adjustments from my Ipad or sitting at the rack without going to each speaker to adjust any parameters. Volumes, eq's, x over setting limiting
without running back and forth to each speaker. Plus I would put my sound quality up against any powered system.
If your running 4 powered tops and 4 powered subs, you have to run16 cables to each speaker. 8 XLR's and 8 110V
The same passive set up I only run 8 speaker wires from the amp rack to the speakers and I'm done. Less cabling means less taping down wires from trip hazards. Break down time is faster as well.

 

[MIXMASTERMACHOM]

Please let us know what you decided to do? If you decide to buy some speakers please let us know what you bought and thanks.

 

[Handinon]

I also continue to run passive, mainly because the speakers are lighter. My 12" Tops with Neo magnets are about 22 pounds, and my 15" subs, also with Neo magnets, about 42 pounds. I run tops over subs all the time, no tripods. Parts Express had a big closeout on B-52 parts - I'm currently building 10" tops that are basically a copy of the B-52 Matrix tops.

 

[oldschool]

I also continue to run passive, mainly because the speakers are lighter. My 12" Tops with Neo magnets are about 22 pounds, and my 15" subs, also with Neo magnets, about 42 pounds. I run tops over subs all the time, no tripods. Parts Express had a big closeout on B-52 parts - I'm currently building 10" tops that are basically a copy of the B-52 Matrix tops.

Yep, your only lifting the speaker and not the speaker and amp. Plus you only need on speaker wire per box.The only advantage a powered speaker has is if you want to simply plug in your ipod and play music without a mixer.

 

[steve149]

Yep, your only lifting the speaker and not the speaker and amp. Plus you only need on speaker wire per box.The only advantage a powered speaker has is if you want to simply plug in your ipod and play music without a mixer.

Actually, there are many advantages with a quality powered box .. redundancy (can run 1 alone if necessary since there are 2 separate power supplies and amplifiers), amps matched to drivers, DSP contoured to box and drivers.

Nothing wrong with passive .. I ran many a passive system .. but almost ALL higher end boxes have moved to active because the designers can focus on the system instead of hoping the user puts the right parts together.

 

[ittigger]

Yep, your only lifting the speaker and not the speaker and amp. Plus you only need on speaker wire per box.The only advantage a powered speaker has is if you want to simply plug in your ipod and play music without a mixer.

Actually, there are many advantages with a quality powered box .. redundancy (can run 1 alone if necessary since there are 2 separate power supplies and amplifiers), amps matched to drivers, DSP contoured to box and drivers.

Nothing wrong with passive .. I ran many a passive system .. but almost ALL higher end boxes have moved to active because the designers can focus on the system instead of hoping the user puts the right parts together.

Additionally, many actives do not have an easy way for you to plug in an ipod or other similar device.

 

[oldschool]

Actually, there are many advantages with a quality powered box .. redundancy (can run 1 alone if necessary since there are 2 separate power supplies and amplifiers), amps matched to drivers, DSP contoured to box and drivers.

Nothing wrong with passive .. I ran many a passive system .. but almost ALL higher end boxes have moved to active because the designers can focus on the system instead of hoping the user puts the right parts together.

I have seen many complaints with powered speakers failing, so yes you have a redundancy box and amp, buy In over 30 years of running sound, I have never had an EV power amp fail. Not even once. And yes you can run a powered box on an Ipod with and XLR to 1/8'' adapter. Thats how my friend runs his powered EV box in his shop. Works like a charm.

 

[steve149]

As to weight .. it's really tough to decide one way or the other as there are very few boxes available both ways.

For example, the QSC KW122 (older wooden cab powered 12") weighs 49#, the E112 (closest passive to it, also wood cab) weighs 51# and the K12.2 weighs 39# (though a plastic case). So the passive unit weighs the most.

JBL SRX815P (powered) weighs 63# .. the SRX 815 (passive) weighs 57#, so 6 pounds more for the active, but the active is rated at 137db SPL peak with a freq response of 44-20K (-3db) and the passive at 130db SPL peak with a freq response of 56-20K (-3db) .. the benefits of perfectly matching an amp.

Again, no issues with passive .. my favorite system was my Yorkville Unity with 3 QSC PLX2 amps .. but the future is also pretty clear.

 

[ittigger]

I have seen many complaints with powered speakers failing, so yes you have a redundancy box and amp, buy In over 30 years of running sound, I have never had an EV power amp fail. Not even once. And yes you can run a powered box on an Ipod with and XLR to 1/8'' adapter. Thats how my friend runs his powered EV box in his shop. Works like a charm.

I never said you couldn't, I said not easily. Most people are not ready for this configuration. Your buddy is because he needs it for his specific configuration in his shop.

 

[oldschool]

As to weight .. it's really tough to decide one way or the other as there are very few boxes available both ways.

For example, the QSC KW122 (older wooden cab powered 12") weighs 49#, the E112 (closest passive to it, also wood cab) weighs 51# and the K12.2 weighs 39# (though a plastic case). So the passive unit weighs the most.

JBL SRX815P (powered) weighs 63# .. the SRX 815 (passive) weighs 57#, so 6 pounds more for the active, but the active is rated at 137db SPL peak with a freq response of 44-20K (-3db) and the passive at 130db SPL peak with a freq response of 56-20K (-3db) .. the benefits of perfectly matching an amp.

Again, no issues with passive .. my favorite system was my Yorkville Unity with 3 QSC PLX2 amps .. but the future is also pretty clear.

Most if not all powered speakers are made of plastic to keep the weight down so when they add an amp to the box they are compreable to a passive wooden box. Wooden boxes sound better then composite ones do. We all know home speakers are made of MDF rather then plywood because they sound better. MDF is to heavy for portable speakers so they use plywood. Now many powered boxes are plastic to make them lighter with and amp built in..
Build 3 identical boxes with the exact speaker components, one MDF, one plywood and the other plastic, and guess witch one will sound better.
Imagine a powered PA speaker made from 3/4'' MDF. How heavy do you think those boxes would weigh.
Wooden PA speakers are made from void free Birch ply because it's one of the lightest ply woods of all plywood..
I have never heard a plastic speaker box sound as good as any wooden box, period. To much resonance sound coming from the box.
MDF is heavy and solid and is the best wood at reducing resonance sound coming from the box, so you hear the speaker and not the box.
So in my opinion powered plastic boxes will never sound as good as a plywood or MDF box will.

 

[adj2ent]

While we sit here and discuss things, it’s has been answered already. The move has been toward powered for years. Major touring companies have been using powered systems for years now. All of The major sound manufacturers have concert level powered which are lighter, require less space and are easier to operate. The real question is what works best for your budget, upgrade or keep using what you have. Given that if optimize the amp, dsp matched to each driver in a cabinet poered going to be more efficient and lighter, plus no heavy amps & racks. My two large unpowered systeams are between 20 t0 24 years old. Liked or not I need stuff than is lighter, more compact, easier to setup & operate the grades will be powered. especially since I tour, weight & size become a big line item. I know I’ve saved major dollars transpiration costs being able to move my stuff in a van vs a truck/trailer. I’ve seen a few hybrid systems where all of the processing/amps are built in one unit but I didn’t see the advantages & the costs very high. Then there was the worry I see of a possible single point failure in the processing/amp unit which could bring down everything. Of course they said that will never happen. But the engineer in me knows anything is possible. All you need is that one iceberg.
While I dont really get to see/hear the concert level stuff close-up. I did get to see/hear the EAW system which was steerable at the AES conference a couple of years ago. There were like 22 amps In each full range cab, I can’t remember the full specs but it was like nothing I’ve even heard and you could feel the raw power all completely steerable. Unbelievable and I am sure a price to match.

 

[oldschool]

While we sit here and discuss things, it’s has been answered already. The move has been toward powered for years. Major touring companies have been using powered systems for years now. All of The major sound manufacturers have concert level powered which are lighter, require less space and are easier to operate. The real question is what works best for your budget, upgrade or keep using what you have. Given that if optimize the amp, dsp matched to each driver in a cabinet poered going to be more efficient and lighter, plus no heavy amps & racks. My two large unpowered systeams are between 20 t0 24 years old. Liked or not I need stuff than is lighter, more compact, easier to setup & operate the grades will be powered. especially since I tour, weight & size become a big line item. I know I’ve saved major dollars transpiration costs being able to move my stuff in a van vs a truck/trailer. I’ve seen a few hybrid systems where all of the processing/amps are built in one unit but I didn’t see the advantages & the costs very high. Then there was the worry I see of a possible single point failure in the processing/amp unit which could bring down everything. Of course they said that will never happen. But the engineer in me knows anything is possible. All you need is that one iceberg.
While I dont really get to see/hear the concert level stuff close-up. I did get to see/hear the EAW system which was steerable at the AES conference a couple of years ago. There were like 22 amps In each full range cab, I can’t remember the full specs but it was like nothing I’ve even heard and you could feel the raw power all completely steerable. Unbelievable and I am sure a price to match.

Manufactures develop and follow trends. Walk into any GC and see what they have in the store. It use to be passive speakers and gear, Then manufactures started developing powered speakers and they became popular and sales went up on powered gear. Now walk into any GC and see what is in the store, 100% powered speakers and zero passive speakers.
I like cowboy boots, and the same thing has happened there as well. They started making square toe boots. Sales started going up on square toe boots and now they are all square toed boots.No round toe boots to be found.
It's the same with everything, it's trends and trends will take over variety and soon you have only one choice.
Same with trucks, there all double cab trucks, Ford doesn't even make a single cab truck anymore. Chevy only makes single cab work trucks, all the good trucks are all double cab. Again, trends set what manufactures put on the market. Trucks use to come with 15'' - 16'' or 17'' wheels. Just try and buy a full sized truck with 16'' wheels on it. You can't, they created a trend and they all come with 18'' wheels or bigger.
It's the same with music and what they call top 40. Record company's pay radio stations to play songs 20 times a day and say there the most requested. It's a manufactured trend.
Same with fashion trends, Tats became popular, now everyone has tats, ear piercing's and nose rings, long hair, then the mullet, now man buns are showing up everywhere. Regular jeans, then bell bottom jeans, now it skinny jeans, then cargo pants, and then sagging pants, and hoodies. It's all trends.

 

[adj2ent]

Well, I not sure whats in GC because thats the stuff for the average user and defines what the trend is not what will be. When I was in the business of being cutting edge almost nothing I used was available in stores like that. The equipment was shown at tradeshows like LDI, AES,NAMM & etc by the manufactures. That’s what shows like that do, to show you what’s is or what might be coming. Once it’s in the mass dealers it’s already in full production.

 

[ittigger]

Manufactures develop and follow trends. Walk into any GC and see what they have in the store. It use to be passive speakers and gear, Then manufactures started developing powered speakers and they became popular and sales went up on powered gear. Now walk into any GC and see what is in the store, 100% powered speakers and zero passive speakers.
I like cowboy boots, and the same thing has happened there as well. They started making square toe boots. Sales started going up on square toe boots and now they are all square toed boots.No round toe boots to be found.
It's the same with everything, it's trends and trends will take over variety and soon you have only one choice.
Same with trucks, there all double cab trucks, Ford doesn't even make a single cab truck anymore. Chevy only makes single cab work trucks, all the good trucks are all double cab. Again, trends set what manufactures put on the market. Trucks use to come with 15'' - 16'' or 17'' wheels. Just try and buy a full sized truck with 16'' wheels on it. You can't, they created a trend and they all come with 18'' wheels or bigger.
It's the same with music and what they call top 40. Record company's pay radio stations to play songs 20 times a day and say there the most requested. It's a manufactured trend.
Same with fashion trends, Tats became popular, now everyone has tats, ear piercing's and nose rings, long hair, then the mullet, now man buns are showing up everywhere. Regular jeans, then bell bottom jeans, now it skinny jeans, then cargo pants, and then sagging pants, and hoodies. It's all trends.

I have at least 2 GC's and several other 'pro audio' stores within 90 minutes of me and they all have passive and active equipment.

I also like cowboy boots and know alot of people in the Country line dancing universe - and they are not buying square toe cowboy boots.

Trucks .. here's Ford's website - 2019 Ford® F-150 XL Truck | Model Highlights | Ford.com - (https://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/2019/models/f150-xl/) - kinda looks like a single cab to me. You can also get a 250, 350 and 450 in single cab configuration and if I had to guess, with a bunch of amenities.

Chevy sells the Silverado 1500, 2500 and 3500 as a single cab. I'm almost certain you can outfit these any way you want them as well. Ram will sell a 1500, 2500 and 3500 in single cab configuration. Nissan - Titan offers a single cab. Toyota does not offer a single cab any longer. Pickups are no longer just a work truck and a dealer will generally not have in stock what's not selling - but you can absolutely buy a single cab from most MFR's.

While 16" wheels on a pickup don't seem to be available from the Ford factory, 17's are - and that's smaller than an 18". The rest of the lineups .. Chevy 17", Ram 17" and Nissan 18". You might be able to find 16" aftermarket (if you really wanted them) but you'd have to make sure that they clear the bigger brakes and other things. If I had to guess, this is also due to carrying a heavier load - and the wheel size does impact the vehicle ride.

All the 'fancy' trucks are double cab or larger because that's what families are buying - it's not where MFR's are steering us .. much like alot of stores are closing because people are buying online. WE are forcing some of these stores to close by not shopping there.

Back on topic, the first truck to do away with single cabs was the Tundra - because 0.4% of total Tundra sales were single cab, followed by 34.1 % for double cab and 65.5% for crew max. This means if you built 1,000 single cabs, 4 of them sold - and from a financial aspect, that's terrible. Again, it comes down to what people are buying. If all MFR's took away every configuration and left you with only single cab, then they would be steering you toward a specific configuration. As you can see, most MFR's still offer various cabs anda variety of wheel sizes (17"-20") as of January 12, 2020.

 

[oldschool]

I have at least 2 GC's and several other 'pro audio' stores within 90 minutes of me and they all have passive and active equipment.

I also like cowboy boots and know alot of people in the Country line dancing universe - and they are not buying square toe cowboy boots.

Trucks .. here's Ford's website - 2019 Ford® F-150 XL Truck | Model Highlights | Ford.com - (https://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/2019/models/f150-xl/) - kinda looks like a single cab to me. You can also get a 250, 350 and 450 in single cab configuration and if I had to guess, with a bunch of amenities.

Chevy sells the Silverado 1500, 2500 and 3500 as a single cab. I'm almost certain you can outfit these any way you want them as well. Ram will sell a 1500, 2500 and 3500 in single cab configuration. Nissan - Titan offers a single cab. Toyota does not offer a single cab any longer. Pickups are no longer just a work truck and a dealer will generally not have in stock what's not selling - but you can absolutely buy a single cab from most MFR's.

While 16" wheels on a pickup don't seem to be available from the Ford factory, 17's are - and that's smaller than an 18". The rest of the lineups .. Chevy 17", Ram 17" and Nissan 18". You might be able to find 16" aftermarket (if you really wanted them) but you'd have to make sure that they clear the bigger brakes and other things. If I had to guess, this is also due to carrying a heavier load - and the wheel size does impact the vehicle ride.

All the 'fancy' trucks are double cab or larger because that's what families are buying - it's not where MFR's are steering us .. much like alot of stores are closing because people are buying online. WE are forcing some of these stores to close by not shopping there.

Back on topic, the first truck to do away with single cabs was the Tundra - because 0.4% of total Tundra sales were single cab, followed by 34.1 % for double cab and 65.5% for crew max. This means if you built 1,000 single cabs, 4 of them sold - and from a financial aspect, that's terrible. Again, it comes down to what people are buying. If all MFR's took away every configuration and left you with only single cab, then they would be steering you toward a specific configuration. As you can see, most MFR's still offer various cabs anda variety of wheel sizes (17"-20") as of January 12, 2020.

You are wrong on thrucks, I know because I havebeen truck shopping for the past year for a single cab loaded. They don't exist. They are stripped down work trucks.
Chevy only make one single cab and it a stripped down work with no bells and whistles. You can not get a chevy single cab with and bells or whistles, I tried. Everything else is double cab or extended cab. I know this because I have been truck shopping for awhile now.
Real cowboys don't line dance. Only fake ones do. All hat and no saddle. You cant buy a chevy 1500/2500.3500 with anything smaller then a 17'' wheel.
Go ahead and call a dealer and ask for a single cab with all the bells and whistles, and they will laugh at you.
Fords is the same way, if you want a fancy truck it's double cab or stripped down work truck.

 

[oldschool]

Well, I not sure whats in GC because thats the stuff for the average user and defines what the trend is not what will be. When I was in the business of being cutting edge almost nothing I used was available in stores like that. The equipment was shown at tradeshows like LDI, AES,NAMM & etc by the manufactures. That’s what shows like that do, to show you what’s is or what might be coming. Once it’s in the mass dealers it’s already in full production.

I live in Houston and there are about 10 GC located around the city, no passive speakers in any of them. It's all powered or nothing, unless you special order them. Now you can fine them in there used department, but not anywhere else.

 

[ittigger]

You are wrong on thrucks, I know because I havebeen truck shopping for the past year for a single cab loaded. They don't exist. They are stripped down work trucks.
Chevy only make one single cab and it a stripped down work with no bells and whistles. You can not get a chevy single cab with and bells or whistles, I tried. Everything else is double cab or extended cab. I know this because I have been truck shopping for awhile now.
Real cowboys don't line dance. Only fake ones do. All hat and no saddle. You cant buy a chevy 1500/2500.3500 with anything smaller then a 17'' wheel.
Go ahead and call a dealer and ask for a single cab with all the bells and whistles, and they will laugh at you.
Fords is the same way, if you want a fancy truck it's double cab or stripped down work truck.

Not sure how I'm wrong - I gave you a link directly to Ford (which you obviously did not click on). You can find the same on Chevy's, Ram's and Nissan's official sites. As for bells and whistles .. I'm fairly certain if you're going to drop 40k+ on a single cab, it won't be plain jane if you don't want it to be. I never said anything smaller than a 17" wheel - I showed that you can get something smaller than an 18" - which is what you said was not possible. I even told you what each MFR offered and why it was like that.

I never said what a real cowboy does or does not do (btw, yes they do line dance - as do bull riders, calf ropers, farmers and a whole bunch of others from various jobs and backgrounds). What I said was that round toe boots can be bought - as those are what line / couples dancers wear.

 

[steve149]

The only pair of cowboy boots I've ever owned (left over from an Oklahoma production in my Senior HS year) are square toed.

 

[ittigger]

You can get the squared or rounded or other (like long rounded toe). I have had many.

Anyone see any round toed boots here?

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[oldschool]

Not sure how I'm wrong - I gave you a link directly to Ford (which you obviously did not click on). You can find the same on Chevy's, Ram's and Nissan's official sites. As for bells and whistles .. I'm fairly certain if you're going to drop 40k+ on a single cab, it won't be plain jane if you don't want it to be. I never said anything smaller than a 17" wheel - I showed that you can get something smaller than an 18" - which is what you said was not possible. I even told you what each MFR offered and why it was like that.

I never said what a real cowboy does or does not do (btw, yes they do line dance - as do bull riders, calf ropers, farmers and a whole bunch of others from various jobs and backgrounds). What I said was that round toe boots can be bought - as those are what line / couples dancers wear.

You didn't call and ask what options come with a single cab truck did you. Like I said and you didn't listen is I have been truck shopping for over a year and I have been to 3 or 4 dealerships and sat in a salesman office trying to order a single cab truck with all the same equipment that comes on the double cabs. And I'm telling you the only single cab trucks are plane stripped down work trucks. The last production single cab trucks that came equipped with everything was in 2015. Since then ALL single cab trucks are stripped down work trucks. Not Ford, Chevy or Dodge sells a top of the line single cab truck period. And no I didn't click the link ether,. Why Because I just told you why. I have been there don that and been to the dealerships looking for one. Did you bother to read all the options they offer on those links? No you did not, because if you did you wouldn't be arguing about it, now would you.


What you call real cowboys are not real cowboys. Those are fake city slickers dressed like cowboys. It's a fake image they put on when they go out. I grew up in real small town honky Tonk's not some city slicker honky tonk night clubs where the close they wear are as fake as they are.
You might see men line dancing at weddings where you DJ but you go out to a small town where real cowboys live and work and you won't see a single one caught dead line dancing.

I noticed you didn't argue the man bun trend. Bet your wearing one right now!

I dare you to stop at a dealership and try to order a single cab truck that is not a stripped down work truck and you show me the invoice and I will buy it for you as a gift. I'm that sure they do not exist. I've been trying to buy one for 3 years now and I even have a family member that works for chevy all his life and I even called him to see if one could be ordered. The answer is NO if you want a fancy truck, it's a double cab or nothing.