New DJ Needs Help Selecting Speakers...
- Thread starter DJ4LIFE
- Start date
Agreed about shipping, which is why I try to get all my research done before hand (and visit various stores, talk to lots of people) .. I was stressed when I jumped into the active pool and for a period of time, I was dragging around an active system with a passive backup.
Also agree about the 45 day trial.
Completely agreed.
They got alot of stuff that they'll be getting rid of then.
If you have the money, look at Bassboss in San Antonio. There powered speakers sound incredible. There double subs go down to 21 HZ
I went to there showroom and WOW you will book every gig no mater how much you charge. There subs are the bomb.
I went to there showroom and WOW you will book every gig no mater how much you charge. There subs are the bomb.
ZV28-MKII Powered Subwoofer | BASSBOSS Powered Loudspeakers
Highest Standards - Lowest Frequencies. Deepest portable powered subwoofer on the market, to 21 Hz. Once you feel its power, nothing else comes close.
www.bassboss.com
I have heard the name but no I haven't heard there products in person. See my user name, I'm old school and so I stick with what I know. And you did say arguably so that says some would disagree. I do this part time on a budget I can afford. I don't follow the latest and greatest trends or have the money to keep buying more gear when what I have has worked for me for decades and still sounds great. In fact I still get plenty of complements on my sound quality. I'm sure most of us are in the same boat and can't afford to keep upgrading every time something new comes out.. I'm not a pro touring company. I got my equipment cheap and on a fixed budget, as most of you have.
And I would bet even the most expensive powered equipment has had issues just the same as lower level powered equipment has had.
And If you read back far enough in the thread, I did say there are pro's and con's to everything, no mater the cost. .
Do you use Mayer sound equipment? Because you said it yourself arguably.
The reason I like passive equipment is that the trend has gone powered and because of that. It has put what use to be the most expensive equipment that is use in the hands of people that couldn't afford it when it was top of the line back in the day. It's also easier to fix or replace if something breaks. And I have never had any passive gear break other then blowing a horn, witch is easy to replace a diaphragm at an affordable price. I use EV amps and have NEVER had one go bad. And if it did,I have affordable replacements that can be switched out quickly just by having a spare in the rack Just switch the input XLR's and switch the speaker wire, turn the amp on and away we go. . Besides who in there right mind would spend 100K for a sound system only to drag it in and out of some of these dive joints that probably don't have the electrical capability to run such a powerful system. We have all been in that boat, where a bar or club doesn't have enough electrical power to even run a 20K watt system without blowing breakers.
It's kind like my argument about double cab trucks. A pickup truck no mater how nice shouldn't cost 80K, Thats crazy money to spend on a truck. Especially since most of these giant 4x4 truck never even see a dirt road or actually haul anything.
I sell firewood on the side to make extra money (about200 cordsa year) and I get a lot of new trucks coming in to pick it up and I talk to the new truck owners and they say they are having issues with them and they wish they had kept there older truck.
I drive a 1994 chevy step side I bought new in 1995, it was a leftover custom conversion that had all the bells and whistles that came on a top of the line truck with 20K worth of up grades from a custon builder and it only cost me 18K brand new including the 20K upgrades. and it has 300K and it's has never let me down. I just had replaced a lot of parts that cost me less the 4K and it drives like a brand new truck. New breaks,shocks, springs complete front end, tie rods, ball joints, new water pump alternator, a few sensors, belts and hoses. Things that would were out on any truck after that many miles. I've never touched the engine or trany and I wok that truck everyday pulling trailers and hauling everything I can fit in the bed. I pull horse trailers, cargo trailers, car haulers toy haulers and it just keeps going. Sure I would like a nice shinny new truck but for 80K they can keep them.
Last edited:
I was just trying to make a point that one of the most trusted names in the audio world is Meyer, and all they do is powered. There are many reasons for this, and yes I use Meyer 700hp subs for my big shows.
Oh, and I will agree I loved my EV amps when I was passive. I had two original Q66s. Speakers sounded better on the EV than my PLX.
Oh, and I will agree I loved my EV amps when I was passive. I had two original Q66s. Speakers sounded better on the EV than my PLX.
Last edited:
The German made amps are solid as a rock. The new gen Q's are made in China and though I have 5 of them I still like the older German made ones. Yes the German 3 u's are heavier then the China made 2U's but the fans are quieter on the older ones and don't cycle on when the amps are idling. The China made ones will cycle the fans on and off even when idling and are nosier
I have some P4000's and P3000's P1202's and Q66's in the older German models.
I have 4 Q1212's and 1 Q66 in the new gens .The new ones are lighter and are only 2U space but none of them have ever failed.
I only put one amp per 3U rack for the older ones and 2 in a 4U rack for the new ones. They are easy to stack and use short XLR's to link them so set up is easy enough and I use a 6 channel XLR snake to link from the DBX PA2' from my mixer rack. so set up is quite simple. I ordered color coded rubber markers that bolt behind each connector and matching color coded speaker Nutrick cable connectors on the back of each amp and speaker cable so set up is a breeze.
I power everything with 3 Monster PRO3500's with short heavy duty power cables so I bet money I can set up my rig as fast or faster then any powered system. I spent hours setting up my racks so hooking up is fast and easy and fool proof.. I have less long XLR's to run to each speaker and less extension cords to power each powered speaker. One speaker, one speaker cable and done.
I do pull the covers off each amp once a year and blow out the dust and they look brand new inside.
Do you pull the amps out of your powered speakers and blow out the dust? If so how easy is it to do?
Last edited:
I used to be proud of my ability to derail a Thread, but after following all this, it is painfully obvious I'm a total novice...but I did learn a lot about trucks! However, I already knew that the world does not need another pickup truck mentality fool driving a chipped Cummins, whose sole purpose in life is to Blacken as many cars as possible. 
I got into DJ'ing late, after my children and their friend's had been married, and thus I had been to a lot of weddings as a guest. I vowed to NEVER produce the
horrible sound I had heard at too many of them. Therefore, I did a system approach. I needed the lightest (due to my age) system that would fit in the back seat and trunk of my car, that would produce the best sound possible - that meant running subs ALL the time. A strong electronics/audio background enabled me to cobble together what I've now been using for years. It is totally passive, primarily again due to weight. The only real change over time is I moved away from coupled subs w/tops on tripods to just tops over subs, mainly for looks. The heaviest thing I deal with is the Class A/B amp for the tops, but I don't have to lift that over my head! The subs are powered by a Class D amp that weighs 7 pounds!!
As already mentioned, the market place has spoken, Active is it. For a single speaker, like a Ceremony speaker, that's obviously best. However, once you are using multiple speakers, IMHO passive still has some advantages besides less weight. For example, I think everyone is familiar with "relative phase" between the left and right speakers, a problem more prevalent with passive speakers if you accidentally had the wiring reversed to one side. There is also "absolute phase".
If you look at an expanded waveform in Audacity, you can see that the leading edge of a bass hit is a positive pulse. For maximum visceral impact, your woofers should move out, not in, with that initial pulse. Unfortunately, that is often not the case, because if you followed the audio signal through the bazillion op-amps it goes through, many of which are often in an "inverting" configuration, it's a crap-shoot. No problem, I'll just move the phase inverting switch on both of my active subs. Excellent, but now how do you invert the phase on both of your active tops to match your subs, when the geniuses who designed them didn't put phase switches on the tops??
I got into DJ'ing late, after my children and their friend's had been married, and thus I had been to a lot of weddings as a guest. I vowed to NEVER produce the
horrible sound I had heard at too many of them. Therefore, I did a system approach. I needed the lightest (due to my age) system that would fit in the back seat and trunk of my car, that would produce the best sound possible - that meant running subs ALL the time. A strong electronics/audio background enabled me to cobble together what I've now been using for years. It is totally passive, primarily again due to weight. The only real change over time is I moved away from coupled subs w/tops on tripods to just tops over subs, mainly for looks. The heaviest thing I deal with is the Class A/B amp for the tops, but I don't have to lift that over my head! The subs are powered by a Class D amp that weighs 7 pounds!!
As already mentioned, the market place has spoken, Active is it. For a single speaker, like a Ceremony speaker, that's obviously best. However, once you are using multiple speakers, IMHO passive still has some advantages besides less weight. For example, I think everyone is familiar with "relative phase" between the left and right speakers, a problem more prevalent with passive speakers if you accidentally had the wiring reversed to one side. There is also "absolute phase".
If you look at an expanded waveform in Audacity, you can see that the leading edge of a bass hit is a positive pulse. For maximum visceral impact, your woofers should move out, not in, with that initial pulse. Unfortunately, that is often not the case, because if you followed the audio signal through the bazillion op-amps it goes through, many of which are often in an "inverting" configuration, it's a crap-shoot. No problem, I'll just move the phase inverting switch on both of my active subs. Excellent, but now how do you invert the phase on both of your active tops to match your subs, when the geniuses who designed them didn't put phase switches on the tops??
I used to be proud of my ability to derail a Thread, but after following all this, it is painfully obvious I'm a total novice...but I did learn a lot about trucks! However, I already knew that the world does not need another pickup truck mentality fool driving a chipped Cummins, whose sole purpose in life is to Blacken as many cars as possible.
I got into DJ'ing late, after my children and their friend's had been married, and thus I had been to a lot of weddings as a guest. I vowed to NEVER produce the
horrible sound I had heard at too many of them. Therefore, I did a system approach. I needed the lightest (due to my age) system that would fit in the back seat and trunk of my car, that would produce the best sound possible - that meant running subs ALL the time. A strong electronics/audio background enabled me to cobble together what I've now been using for years. It is totally passive, primarily again due to weight. The only real change over time is I moved away from coupled subs w/tops on tripods to just tops over subs, mainly for looks. The heaviest thing I deal with is the Class A/B amp for the tops, but I don't have to lift that over my head! The subs are powered by a Class D amp that weighs 7 pounds!!
As already mentioned, the market place has spoken, Active is it. For a single speaker, like a Ceremony speaker, that's obviously best. However, once you are using multiple speakers, IMHO passive still has some advantages besides less weight. For example, I think everyone is familiar with "relative phase" between the left and right speakers, a problem more prevalent with passive speakers if you accidentally had the wiring reversed to one side. There is also "absolute phase".
If you look at an expanded waveform in Audacity, you can see that the leading edge of a bass hit is a positive pulse. For maximum visceral impact, your woofers should move out, not in, with that initial pulse. Unfortunately, that is often not the case, because if you followed the audio signal through the bazillion op-amps it goes through, many of which are often in an "inverting" configuration, it's a crap-shoot. No problem, I'll just move the phase inverting switch on both of my active subs. Excellent, but now how do you invert the phase on both of your active tops to match your subs, when the geniuses who designed them didn't put phase switches on the tops??
Then you need a DBX PA2 x over. It has built in phase inverters for both tops and subs. plus it has a time aliment function for both tops and subs and can all be adjusted via a tablet and router on the fly while you walk around the venue and make all your adjustment from the tablet. No running back and forth to the rack and making adjustment then running back to the dance floor to see if the changes are to your liking.
You can do this while the floor is full of people because we all no an empty dance floor sounds different then one that is full.
Watch all three these videos and you will run out and get one right away.
The PA2 has virtually every adjustment you could ever want. Pre and post eq's, compressor, limiter, time aliment- pre and post, phase shifting RTA AFS and much more.
It works with powered or passive speakers.
The first vid shows you how to set up the PA2
The next video shows you how to set up your ISO so you can make all adjustments from anywhere in the room.
The last video shows you how the ISO works while you walk around the room. Sorry the last one is not in english but you will get the idea.
It's simply the best and easiest way to set up and control your system. Period.
It will replace all the extra components that take up room in your rack in one simple 1U rack space system.
It replaces your pre EQ and post EQ, compressor, AFS, time alinments , x over, limiter RTA in one simple 1U rack space.
Plus you can set up the three XLR out and configure them any way you like.
I use the third one to control my on stage monitors..
Using an android makes adjusting it a breeze from anywhere in the room.
When you set it up you can also choose Likewitz or Rilly filters on your x over.
Your time delay settings for the tops and subs are both pre and post
Last edited:
I used to be proud of my ability to derail a Thread, but after following all this, it is painfully obvious I'm a total novice...but I did learn a lot about trucks! However, I already knew that the world does not need another pickup truck mentality fool driving a chipped Cummins, whose sole purpose in life is to Blacken as many cars as possible.
I got into DJ'ing late, after my children and their friend's had been married, and thus I had been to a lot of weddings as a guest. I vowed to NEVER produce the
horrible sound I had heard at too many of them. Therefore, I did a system approach. I needed the lightest (due to my age) system that would fit in the back seat and trunk of my car, that would produce the best sound possible - that meant running subs ALL the time. A strong electronics/audio background enabled me to cobble together what I've now been using for years. It is totally passive, primarily again due to weight. The only real change over time is I moved away from coupled subs w/tops on tripods to just tops over subs, mainly for looks. The heaviest thing I deal with is the Class A/B amp for the tops, but I don't have to lift that over my head! The subs are powered by a Class D amp that weighs 7 pounds!!
As already mentioned, the market place has spoken, Active is it. For a single speaker, like a Ceremony speaker, that's obviously best. However, once you are using multiple speakers, IMHO passive still has some advantages besides less weight. For example, I think everyone is familiar with "relative phase" between the left and right speakers, a problem more prevalent with passive speakers if you accidentally had the wiring reversed to one side. There is also "absolute phase".
If you look at an expanded waveform in Audacity, you can see that the leading edge of a bass hit is a positive pulse. For maximum visceral impact, your woofers should move out, not in, with that initial pulse. Unfortunately, that is often not the case, because if you followed the audio signal through the bazillion op-amps it goes through, many of which are often in an "inverting" configuration, it's a crap-shoot. No problem, I'll just move the phase inverting switch on both of my active subs. Excellent, but now how do you invert the phase on both of your active tops to match your subs, when the geniuses who designed them didn't put phase switches on the tops??
Since I got the DBX PA2 it freed up about 12 rack spaces in my rack and lightened my rack by over 100 pounds of gear that this one simple unit does all in one rack space. It looks complicated but it's actually very easy to use and the Wizard will walk you through the whole set up.
The sound quality is top quality as well. With a Tablet you can mount the PA2 in your amp rack and use your android to control it quickly and easily.
I have 3 of them so I can split my systems into 3 different systems and send them out to different gigs on the same night.
All you need is a mixer, sound source, the PA2 and ether powered or passive amp speaker set up.
If you don't have one yet, get one, you wont regret it.
My mixer has a duel zone so I have a main room sound system and a zone room for guest to go and mingle in a quieter setting. So I'll use the tops and subs on channels 1 and 3, and use channel 2 as my secondary zone room. and I can use my tablet in the zone room to make adjustments without being anywhere near the amp/x over set up in the main room.
Last edited:
I used to be proud of my ability to derail a Thread, but after following all this, it is painfully obvious I'm a total novice...but I did learn a lot about trucks! However, I already knew that the world does not need another pickup truck mentality fool driving a chipped Cummins, whose sole purpose in life is to Blacken as many cars as possible.
I got into DJ'ing late, after my children and their friend's had been married, and thus I had been to a lot of weddings as a guest. I vowed to NEVER produce the
horrible sound I had heard at too many of them. Therefore, I did a system approach. I needed the lightest (due to my age) system that would fit in the back seat and trunk of my car, that would produce the best sound possible - that meant running subs ALL the time. A strong electronics/audio background enabled me to cobble together what I've now been using for years. It is totally passive, primarily again due to weight. The only real change over time is I moved away from coupled subs w/tops on tripods to just tops over subs, mainly for looks. The heaviest thing I deal with is the Class A/B amp for the tops, but I don't have to lift that over my head! The subs are powered by a Class D amp that weighs 7 pounds!!
As already mentioned, the market place has spoken, Active is it. For a single speaker, like a Ceremony speaker, that's obviously best. However, once you are using multiple speakers, IMHO passive still has some advantages besides less weight. For example, I think everyone is familiar with "relative phase" between the left and right speakers, a problem more prevalent with passive speakers if you accidentally had the wiring reversed to one side. There is also "absolute phase".
If you look at an expanded waveform in Audacity, you can see that the leading edge of a bass hit is a positive pulse. For maximum visceral impact, your woofers should move out, not in, with that initial pulse. Unfortunately, that is often not the case, because if you followed the audio signal through the bazillion op-amps it goes through, many of which are often in an "inverting" configuration, it's a crap-shoot. No problem, I'll just move the phase inverting switch on both of my active subs. Excellent, but now how do you invert the phase on both of your active tops to match your subs, when the geniuses who designed them didn't put phase switches on the tops??
If you had passive tops you could just reverse the speaker wire polarity. Another plus for passive speakers.
I live in the Houston area in TX, about three hours away from San Antonio. Do those speakers hold up the same as Mackie, EV, or QSC I am researching and asking around to see if Mackie speakers sound anywhere near as good as the QSC or EV. For price I am thinking Mackie, but for quality people have told me that EV or QSZ are the best, but my budget is saying Mackie. Not sure yet. Now I am wanting to check put the speakers you mentioned. Thanks for the feedback.
I rented a pair of Elite double 15's for a gig before I had my EV's and one of them actually caught fire around the voice coil. QSC's are great speakers, particularly there subs. But I have gotten more complements on how clear and detailed the EV's are. particularly the mids and highs.
I have the EV Eliminator doubles and 4 pair of the the EV T252+ doubles and a pair of EV T251's I use at small events and for side fills for live bands.
I have done several events that had a house PA with all JBL's and everyone tells me the EV's sound cleaner and clearer when running side by side with the JBL's.
In my opinion the newer powered EV's don't sound as clean as my passive T252+ do.
I also run the EV MTL1's and the MTL1x and the MTL1x are cleaner and go lower and I can push them much harder then the MTL1's. Both are double 18's but the the MTL1'a are the 800 watt version and the 1x's are the 1200 watt version in the same box. Thats contentious ratings. The 1'x are rated up to 4800 watts peak each.
EV MTL1 specs
http://pdf.textfiles.com/manuals/STARINMANUALS/Bosch - EV/MTL-1.pdf
EV MTL1x specs
EV T252+ specs
ELECTRO-VOICE T252+ SPEAKER SYSTEM BROCHURE & SPECS
View and Download Electro-Voice T252+ brochure & specs online. Trapezoidal stage speaker system. T252+ speaker system pdf manual download.
www.manualslib.com
EV T221 specs
ELECTRO-VOICE T221 SPEAKER SYSTEM SPECIFICATIONS
View and Download Electro-Voice T221 specifications online. Trapezoidal Stage Speaker System. T221 speaker system pdf manual download.
www.manualslib.com
I power the subs with the P3000 in bridged and the T252+ tops with the EV Q1212 in stereo mode and I power the T221's with the EV Q66 amps.
Sometimes I just use the Q12121's for powering the subs in stereo mode when I don't feel like using the heavier P3000's and I don't need to push them very hard.
They all sound great no mater what configuration I go with but when I bridge the P3000's the subs are outstanding. BUT you have to use caution with that much power because they sound so clean, you can find yourself pushing them to hard, With that much power on hand you have to use common since and discretion.
I get zero complaints on sound quality.
I would add that there are pro's and con's to using horn loaded sub scoops vs front loaded subs. Front loaded subs tend to keep the lows limited to the front section of a dance floor and fall off the farther away you get from them. With horn loaded sub scoops they throw the lows all the way to the back wall and carry the lows much farther out. So application would dictate witch one you might consider.
I do like the trapezoidal design of the T252+ tops because you can orient them in an array or strait out. With square boxes you can't orient them in an array configuration as easy.
I do like the trapezoidal design of the T252+ tops because you can orient them in an array or strait out. With square boxes you can't orient them in an array configuration as easy.
Actually, there is little difference in "throw" distance between horn loaded and front firing woofers. Horn loaded woofers tend to act like a slightly larger cone than the driving one (more air is coupled), and they "tend" to be a bit smoother, but typically don't get as low as a direct firing driver.
The horn length needs to be adjusted for from a delay perspective (actually, the tops need to be delayed), but I prefer the smoother sound. I had a pair of Yorkville Unity subs with a 7' folded horn that took about 7ms of delay to the tops to match up.
At one time I had as many as 12 of the MTL1x subs and 8 of the T252+ tops. I down sized to just 4 subs and 4 tops now and that is as big as I can go now but 4 subs and 4 tops are plenty to run just about any sized venue your gonna run into. The other reason is most places don't have enough AC power in tap to run a supper big rig.
Yes coupling a system does increase the DB output but that all depends on the venue and how or what your using them for. For a rave I'll stack everything all together if I can. Typically in a corner of the venue so I get the benafit of the walls to help boost DB levels. But for a band I tend to put 2 subs and 2 tops on each side. But again It all depends on the venue and where the stage is set up.
Last edited:
Not boundary coupling, which you are referring to, but air coupling .. the tube of air that needs to be moved by a horn loaded driver.