Finally heard BOSE L1 and QSC K12's

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Scott Hanna said:
I was very impressed with the k12's and sub I heard at the mobile beat. I would not get rid of what I use now, but if I didn't have that choice, I'd have no problem using the k12's.

But I'm happy where I'm at.:)
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Won't that size of speaker limit the amount of people to which you can play?
As stated in a previous thread about a month ago, I heard those speakers twice, once in a club setting with 1 sub and the other time last week in a KJ setting with no sub. Both times it gave me a strong reminder never to buy those speakers. 12 speakers in my opinion is for crowds of 50 people or less. The speakers in my living room are 15" three ways. Had those built since 1974

http://www.ourdjtalk.com/album.php?albumid=38&pictureid=402

http://www.ourdjtalk.com/album.php?albumid=38&pictureid=403
I would use those first before those QSCs in question.
 
ahoustondj said:
Won't that size of speaker limit the amount of people to which you can play?
As stated in a previous thread about a month ago, I heard those speakers twice, once in a club setting with 1 sub and the other time last week in a KJ setting with no sub. Both times it gave me a strong reminder never to buy those speakers. 12 speakers in my opinion is for crowds of 50 people or less. The speakers in my living room are 15" three ways. Had those built since 1974

http://www.ourdjtalk.com/album.php?albumid=38&pictureid=402

http://www.ourdjtalk.com/album.php?albumid=38&pictureid=403
I would use those first before those QSCs in question.
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for the k12's I was in a room with about 85 people. the room could hold 300. it was very noisy....Sounded great to me in the back of the room. As we all know...sound is very subjective. Just based on that, though, i would have no problem doing a wedding with 300 with the k12's and a sub

Also, it was a rep playing these, so he might know more about the speakers than some.

However, I am not typical. I just did a corporate party last night with 297 people with 1 tower and 2 subs. Some DJs would never use just that. I brought another tower and was going to set it up remotely but decided it didnt need it. Customer was very happy.
 
ahoustondj said:
Won't that size of speaker limit the amount of people to which you can play?
As stated in a previous thread about a month ago, I heard those speakers twice, once in a club setting with 1 sub and the other time last week in a KJ setting with no sub. Both times it gave me a strong reminder never to buy those speakers. 12 speakers in my opinion is for crowds of 50 people or less. The speakers in my living room are 15" three ways. Had those built since 1974

http://www.ourdjtalk.com/album.php?albumid=38&pictureid=402

http://www.ourdjtalk.com/album.php?albumid=38&pictureid=403
I would use those first before those QSCs in question.
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A good 12" speaker in a properly designed cabinet will usually provide better intelligibility than a 15" speaker, simply because less cone mass can reproduce the vocal range better. Many of the larger touring speakers are now using 6 and 8 inch speakers for the critical vocal range.

your 3-way living room speakers do have a 15" woofer, but I'd be willing to bet that the crossover fromt he 15 to the next smaller driver puts the vocal range into it instead of the 15" woofer.
 
cclark65 said:
A good 12" speaker in a properly designed cabinet will usually provide better intelligibility than a 15" speaker, simply because less cone mass can reproduce the vocal range better. Many of the larger touring speakers are now using 6 and 8 inch speakers for the critical vocal range.

your 3-way living room speakers do have a 15" woofer, but I'd be willing to bet that the crossover fromt he 15 to the next smaller driver puts the vocal range into it instead of the 15" woofer.
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Thats an active 3-way/tri-amped system my friend. The magnet on that system is massive, even larger than my JBLs. Thats what I used to DJ with in my early years 1974 - 1977
 
ahoustondj said:
Thats an active 3-way/tri-amped system my friend. The magnet on that system is massive, even larger than my JBLs. Thats what I used to DJ with in my early years 1974 - 1977
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it's cool that it's tri-amped, but I still stand by my guess that the crossover puts the vocal range on the 8" speaker.
 
Michael Doucot said:
Not sure I understand what you mean???
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Well if its just speakers you want to compare then have everything ready/available minus the speakers. Just attach the speakers and play using the same amps. EQ, Mixer etc. However those that just use full range speakers without a sub for instance would be at a disadvantage against someone using a full range with subs.
The real test would be to give specifics of lets say a room size and capacity, then see what each person brings.
What sets a DJ apart from the rest is how well a sound he has at a particular venue. Equipment, coverage and clarity of sound without distortion or blaring noise.
 
cclark65 said:
it's cool that it's tri-amped, but I still stand by my guess that the crossover puts the vocal range on the 8" speaker.
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Thats where it should be on the midrange and tweeters. The Midrange Section consists of an 8" Full range and two Midrange Horns. Tweeter section consists of 2 paper cones and two horns. I can set the crossover points any way I want. I am using a 3 way electronic crossover and three amps.
 
ahoustondj said:
Thats where it should be on the midrange and tweeters. The Midrange Section consists of an 8" Full range and two Midrange Horns. Tweeter section consists of 2 paper cones and two horns. I can set the crossover points any way I want. I am using a 3 way electronic crossover and three amps.
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My point exactly. The 15 does not cover the vocal range, so why would a 12" speaker not be able to cover a room as good as a 15" speaker...according to your previous post.

ahoustondj said:
12 speakers in my opinion is for crowds of 50 people or less.
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I am completely familiar with electronic crossovers and multiple amps.
 
cclark65 said:
My point exactly. The 15 does not cover the vocal range, so why would a 12" speaker not be able to cover a room as good as a 15" speaker...according to your previous post.
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More SPL plus 15" moves more air! Clean coverage is different from noisy coverage. remember, I heard these two speakers for myself. To me they sounded Flat.
 
ahoustondj said:
More SPL plus 15" moves more air! Clean coverage is different from noisy coverage. remember, I heard these two speakers for myself. To me they sounded Flat.
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I don't doubt they sounded "flat", most front loaded cabinets don't have much musical depth to them, that's why I insist on all horn loaded stuff, it's a more "in-your-face" type of sound.

As for moving air, that's what the sub is for. For vocal clarity, if the speaker is trying to move air for lower notes, it's going to degrade the critical midrange area.

I've got a set of speakers with 12" drivers in them that I'd use 1 cabinet for several hundred people at concert levels with no issues, I'd put it up against any 15" driver any day.

I'm not trying to change your feelings about how those particular speakers sounded to you, but I wouldn't be lumping all 12" drivers into that scenario (50 people or less)
 
Well let me put it this way so yoiu would understand my point. I don't choose a system just for coverage to x amount of people.When I choose a system from the several that I have, it is chosen to handle at least twice to three times that amount. I rarely have to go past half mark on my volume control or gains on any of my processing.

My true test will be next Wednesday when I will do Karaoke at a particular Club where they already have a KJ for Thursday nights. I went to hear him last week Thursday and he was using those QSC speakers. I plan on using something entirely different.

His comment to me as to why he was using just the two mains and no sub was "Thats all that is needed, I don't have to pack a lot of gear". He had a laptop, 6 channel Mike mixer, two wireless mikes and the two QSC powered Speakers. I see this mentality in a lot of DJs, carrying just what is needed (with little if any headroom to spare). I vote for extra power (not volume noise) and a different look.
 
I always go way over what is needed also. If I can't cover it comfortably, I hand it off to somebody that can.
 
Speaker systems cannot be truly compared unless the systems are similar in design. I agree that 15" drivers are horrible for vocal reproduction. I've tried it. We have a pair of dual 10" 2-ways that offer a very warm vocal response and excellent projection. They won't thump like the 15s but we've got sub boxes for that.

Back to the original intent, the L1 system is that ~ a line array sound system. It isn't a set of speakers only. It carries sophisticated processing that's designed for the system as well as internal amplification. One would be hard-pressed to compare the L1 to a conventional set of speakers.

Mike's mention of price points makes sense from the DJ company's standpoint since many of us base our capital investments on cost. For example, if system A seems to offer a more pleasing tone and better projection that system B, system A would be shown to be a better choice, even if it costs a bit more. On the other hand if system A costs a LOT more, the individual has to decide whether the expense justifies the return.

As to comparing speaker systems, you're getting into some deep stuff. Many pro sound cabinets can be bi- and tri-amped right out of the box. Such a cabinet will obviously offer better tone and performance when bi- or tri-amped. But many folks in this biz run their cabs full range.

There are many variables to consider for a speaker system shootout. :)
 
Fred Wright said:
Speaker systems cannot be truly compared unless the systems are similar in design. I agree that 15" drivers are horrible for vocal reproduction. I've tried it. We have a pair of dual 10" 2-ways that offer a very warm vocal response and excellent projection. They won't thump like the 15s but we've got sub boxes for that.

Back to the original intent, the L1 system is that ~ a line array sound system. It isn't a set of speakers only. It carries sophisticated processing that's designed for the system as well as internal amplification. One would be hard-pressed to compare the L1 to a conventional set of speakers.

Mike's mention of price points makes sense from the DJ company's standpoint since many of us base our capital investments on cost. For example, if system A seems to offer a more pleasing tone and better projection that system B, system A would be shown to be a better choice, even if it costs a bit more. On the other hand if system A costs a LOT more, the individual has to decide whether the expense justifies the return.

As to comparing speaker systems, you're getting into some deep stuff. Many pro sound cabinets can be bi- and tri-amped right out of the box. Such a cabinet will obviously offer better tone and performance when bi- or tri-amped. But many folks in this biz run their cabs full range.

There are many variables to consider for a speaker system shootout. :)
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Maybe it should be a comparison of clarity of sound at a certain SPL/DB level. Then look (Under the hood to see whats there)
 
Houston,

I had an old set of 210 speaker cabinets that I would have put up against most 2 pair of 15 inch cabinets I have seen out today but they reqiured mid bass and subs for a full sound!
 
ahoustondj said:
Well let me put it this way so yoiu would understand my point. I don't choose a system just for coverage to x amount of people.When I choose a system from the several that I have, it is chosen to handle at least twice to three times that amount. I rarely have to go past half mark on my volume control or gains on any of my processing.

My true test will be next Wednesday when I will do Karaoke at a particular Club where they already have a KJ for Thursday nights. I went to hear him last week Thursday and he was using those QSC speakers. I plan on using something entirely different.

His comment to me as to why he was using just the two mains and no sub was "Thats all that is needed, I don't have to pack a lot of gear". He had a laptop, 6 channel Mike mixer, two wireless mikes and the two QSC powered Speakers. I see this mentality in a lot of DJs, carrying just what is needed (with little if any headroom to spare). I vote for extra power (not volume noise) and a different look.
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I agree, I bring more than I think will be needed. The event I did on tuesday I had never been to before. I had 2 systems with me, but with the layout of the room I realized I didn't need the 2nd one(but it was right there and could be placed in moments if I was wrong. At the peak of the night I was at 40%.
 
Thunder said:
Houston,

I had an old set of 210 speaker cabinets that I would have put up against most 2 pair of 15 inch cabinets I have seen out today but they reqiured mid bass and subs for a full sound!
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I might have overstated things by lumping in all 12" as one. There are exceptions at all levels with all gear. What I should have emphasized is, that particular QSC speaker system did not impress me at all both times I heard it.
 
We are getting off track of the OP... so I will take us a bit farther...

Mike... my thoughts.....

The "system" should be exact for each speaker...mixer cd player and same song... there would no way to compare any other way...

Pick a gig song like "Billie Jean" if you try to let everyone play what song they want to hear or do a "hey play this song" it'll be too messed up...

Hear Billie Jean through each set, you'll get to hear the difference's. How could anyone say, well our system sounds better when we play XYZ song...

1 song 1 set of gear.


As far as price point.... how about going with what manufactures boast. They say this system will be good for XYZ number of people..... put them on the spot to be honest.

It would have to be "speakers only" tested..... bring in your set, for powered here are your two lines coming from the mixer, for passive, here is the line from a good amp..... don't let anyone bring in anything else...
 
What if the "powered" is outboard, such as the amps that come with a system setup specifically for those speakers?
 
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