Why Processing Can Be Beneficial To Active/Powered Speakers.

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ahoustondj said:
Now what does that mean? That comment was not appropriate.
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Oh really????
We know you think you know everything however you don't get the point from all the prior posts. Acoustics are not handled by the DSP you don't think we don't know that???? The DSP enhances the frequencies the drivers are designed to reproduce. Boosting the signal with an external EQ puts a lot more strain on said drivers. The external equalizer is used to cut the frequencies giving you problems, in the passive you can get away with boosting somethings, something that is not recommended in the active's. When I bought my Mackies before reading all the horror stories with them I was told by the rep to go straight from my mixer main XLR to the subs and then to the tops nothing else and make small adjustments on the board. Before even breaking them in I sold them and went full passive.

As Dave said every room presents a challenge with the different structures and design of the room and that's where the EQ plays a major role the DRPA PX was designed specifically for the powered systems and can auto equalize the room, my PA+ also handles powered speakers, but since I don't have them anymore I don't look into that. There it explained as to what I'm referring the thing is you always think everybody else doesn't know what he's doing and in32 years I've been playing very loud music I still haven't blown a single speaker or needed any maintenance on them so I'll stick to what I know and has worked.
 
DJ SVO said:
Oh really????
We know you think you know everything however you don't get the point from all the prior posts. Acoustics are not handled by the DSP you don't think we don't know that???? This is exactly what I have been saying! That is why one needs External Processing. The DSP enhances the frequencies the drivers are designed to reproduce. You are incorrect in that statement. Boosting the signal with an external EQ puts a lot more strain on said drivers. The external equalizer is used to cut the frequencies giving you problems, in the passive you can get away with boosting somethings, something that is not recommended in the active's. You can do the same for actives up until the onboard limiters kick in to prevent damage to the drivers. When I bought my Mackies before reading all the horror stories The horror stories probably came from users who have no idea how to use the other components in conjunction with the actives. with them I was told by the rep to go straight from my mixer main XLR to the subs and then to the tops nothing else and make small adjustments on the board. Before even breaking them in I sold them and went full passive.

As Dave said every room presents a challenge with the different structures and design of the room and that's where the EQ plays a major role Isn't that what I have been saying all along? the DRPA PX was designed specifically for the powered systems Not quite true. They have been in use before powered systems became common. and can auto equalize the room, It does not continue to auto equalize the room once the setting is done. To change the setting you have to initiate the auto equalization all over. my PA+ also handles powered speakers, but since I don't have them anymore I don't look into that. There it explained as to what I'm referring the thing is you always think everybody else doesn't know what he's doing and in32 years I've been playing very loud music I still haven't blown a single speaker or needed any maintenance on them so I'll stick to what I know and has worked.
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I may not be a Coroner and I don't pretend to be one but I have formally studied Electronics even though not entirely up to engineering level. I never claimed to be an Engineer. However, there are some things that i do know for sure and this is one of them.

The following are quotes from a Qualified Engineer (Someone who does this on a large scale for a living). Same question was posed to him.

I am not aware of any loudspeaker that has built in reverb. So you will need that.

If you have any freq that 'stand out" in a room-you will not be able to do anything about it without an external processor.

Depending on the particular active loudspeaker, you may or may not be able to deal with the bass build up when you use multiples.

You may or may not be able to engage a crossover-to use the loudspeaker with a sub.

Unless the particular loudspeaker and the matching sub are well designed to be used together, getting a good alignment between the two is going to be hard without a processor.

In most cases the processing inside the active loudspeaker is to correct itself-not a system. In most cases there should be a overall system alignment tool.

I would agree that an external processor is required.

In a full system you have the following:
Source
Mixer
EQ and Effects
Crossover (Electronic or Passive)
Amplifier
Speaker

The Components in Green are what equals to a Powered speaker. Therefore the preceding components are still needed. Can the Powered speaker play with only a Source Signal? Absolutely! But to have full control overall on the system and external acoustics, external processing is necessary.

To use your theory, why don't you try going directly from a microphone as source, direct into a powered speaker and see how far that will get you in various venues. You will have to agree that without processing, feedback will abound.
 
yorofl: You just don't get it yorofl: Doc has left the thread yorofl:

BTW a lot of people plug directly with a mic on their powered speaker. Would I do it? No. Enjoy Canuteland!!!! yorofl:
 
DJ SVO said:
yorofl: You just don't get it yorofl: Doc has left the thread yorofl:

BTW a lot of people plug directly with a mic on their powered speaker. Would I do it? No. Enjoy Canuteland!!!! yorofl:
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With every post you make you are proving my point.
 
Canute your not dealing with just any DJ in this one. Not a bedroom guy nor a Headphone speaker DJ leave it as Jacob has. After all he is just a hobbyist. LET IT BE!!!
 
I use a Driverack PX, outboard DSP and a Sabine feedback eliniator as well as a 31 band stereo EQ and a 2 way crossover. These are racked in an SKB case and weight little, easy to carry....and set up for both powered and passive applications all in the same rack case. I wouldn't gig without it. The audible difference far outweighs the additional setup time...... Heck, I can even make JBL EON 315's sound good with this!

Best,

Paul
 
Jon Tuck said:
Wow Paul Im impressed are you truly sure they (The JBL) sound good?
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I kid you not Jon! I wouldn't have the Eon315's however I had a guy on Craigslist had to get rid of them and a 518S powered sub. LOL! they were only 4 months old, brought it all home for $700. Guy was playing Karaoke for himself in the basement, then some family member had to move in.

The pair of 315's and the sub were like new, for this price couldn't be beat. The Driverack PX I just use the mic and pink the room...they do sound good. Not as good as any orf the HPRi series QSC's I have though.

Best,

Paul
 
This is an example of when processing can benefit a powered setup when they werent processed right from the factory settings.
 
Jon Tuck said:
Canute your not dealing with just any DJ in this one. Not a bedroom guy nor a Headphone speaker DJ leave it as Jacob has. After all he is just a hobbyist. LET IT BE!!!
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Jon, I understand but facts are facts. A powered speaker is NOT a do it all. Source signals all come before the crossover, amplifier and speaker. Processing is done on the source signals to tailor sound to the appropriate environment. The better the initial signal is going in, the better the sound will be coming out from the powered speaker or any speaker for that matter.
 
For me, the 315/518S combo is an easy load in/out for small gigs and small outside stuff. They can get the job done with a level of quality that won't destroy my reputation, and I can give a decent price to my clients when I use them...averaging about $375-$450 for a 4 hour gig. Oh...I forgot to mention...the $700 deal included a pair of On-Stage Tripods stands as well!

I wouldn't use them for a wedding ever.

Last nite I booked the Hopkinton MA high school class of 2001 tenth year reunion. It is next Saturday. Talk about a late booking! I plan to bring lights, a pair of QSC HPR181i subs, and HPR122i tops. This should rock the room at the Country Club that holds 200.

Best,

Paul
 
It's true, one can get a decent tone from the Eons when the signal is processed correctly.

Some years ago I saw a pan flute and vocalist gig at the state fair. They had four Eon 15s on stands, spread across the audience area. The tone was much better than I'd heard from Eons before so I snuck a peek at the rack rig.

They had better stuff than I do... upper end processing components with an A&H board for good measure. :)
 
Canute its kind of funny your standing so firm and fighting so heavily. If your processing was so perfect and bullet proof why then did you have to buy the Bose processor to make the Bose sound proper for you? Your processing was not ever going to correct the sound on those 802's you tried to correct until you finally bought the EQ designed by Bose for their speaker. On another note much like the EONS Paul speaks of your Scoops also would fail miserably without some form of processing to enhance the one note wonders that they are without.
 
Jon Tuck said:
Canute its kind of funny your standing so firm and fighting so heavily. If your processing was so perfect and bullet proof why then did you have to buy the Bose processor to make the Bose sound proper for you? Your processing was not ever going to correct the sound on those 802's you tried to correct until you finally bought the EQ designed by Bose for their speaker. On another note much like the EONS Paul speaks of your Scoops also would fail miserably without some form of processing to enhance the one note wonders that they are without.
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Using the Bose 802 as a full range speaker without it's processor will sound like crap.
I do not always use the Bose Processor. The Bose Processor is nothing more than a two way crossover, period. It was designed specifically for the Bose 802. I use it in a two way configuration or in full range. When I use a three way electronic crossover I use my Ashly 3 way and leave out the Bose Processor, I can then utilize the Bose 802 as either a Tweeter Cabinet or Midrange Cabinet because there are no onboard filters to impede the High or Mid signal I send to it.
I never said that my processing is bullet proof. It is there to combat the acoustical challenges of the room and signals from source.
 
its okay you skirted my point your Right Canute Process your stuff it likely needs it to keep up with new music and the times. I wont argue further nor impeded your mission any longer.
 
Jon Tuck said:
its okay you skirted my point your Right Canute Process your stuff it likely needs it to keep up with new music and the times. I wont argue further nor impeded your mission any longer.
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Pray tell, what is your point? I addressed your questions. I bought the Bose Processor so I can use it for full range or in a two way configuration. What more do you want to know?
 
djsarge said:
I want to know how a study of electronics makes you a sound engineer?
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Comprehension is an uphill battle, eh? Show me where I ever said that I am a Sound Engineer. I bet you $100.00 you can't. Put up or shut up. You may also want to go back and read post #22.

You all come on this board looking to share things and have questions answered. What do you expect to get from someone who has been doing this for a living (Not a Hobby) for over 30 years? Of course I would have loads of experience and I am willing to share. I cannot understand the resistance.
There is a Bible quote about this: " “A prophet is not without honor except in his own town, among his relatives and in his own home.”
 
A living? I thought you sold picture frames, waterless cookware.....besides playing at a bar night after night with the same gear (what... 30 years old?) hardly qualifies one as an "expert". Of that 30 years, how many hours have you actually used a powered system?

Can I see proof that you studied electronics? (Google doesn't count)...and what web page did you get those engineers quotes from?

You've got loads of something; that's for sure......


You just don't get it; you may very well have something to offer; it's unfortunate that the manner in which you have chosen to offer it just puts the masses off.
 
Steve LeBlanc said:
A living? I thought you sold picture frames, waterless cookware....
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You are starting on me again. I have two businesses. Art Business: (Art Consultant, Installer, Framing Design). Music Business: (Mobile DJ, Club DJ, Sound Reinforcement and Rentals to other DJs)

Steve LeBlanc said:
.besides playing at a bar night after night with the same gear (what... 30 years old?) hardly qualifies one as an "expert".
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Where did I ever say I was an expert? Same challenge goes out to you, show me where and I will give you $100.00 put up or shut up.

Steve LeBlanc said:
how many hours have you actually used a powered system?
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I have a Peavey powered speaker, I use it for a Monitor.

Steve LeBlanc said:
Can I see proof that you studied electronics? (Google doesn't count)...and what web page did you get those engineers quotes from?
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US Army: Electronics Instrument Repair
OIC of Boston: Electronics
NASA/Ford Aerospace: Systems Fabrication and Testing for Mission Control at JSC

I don't have to prove anything or show you anything more. None of your damn business.
The Quotes are in Pro Sound Web go join for yourself.

Steve LeBlanc said:
You just don't get it; you may very well have something to offer; it's unfortunate that the manner in which you have chosen to offer it just puts the masses off.
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What manner? Do you see me berating anyone or calling anyone names? I just state the facts but again, same on here are acting like babies not grown ups. All they want is a pat on the back. They ask for feedback and criticism but can't handle it when it comes their way.
 
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