Taking responsibility for one’s self

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Proformance said:
I don't think that's entirely accurate. I think you're just very keen on scoping out the shallow end of the pool before wading in.
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No here's where it's at. You mentioned earlier that you played a couple of songs that got the crowd on the dance floor so the guest could see that you weren't the problem why people weren't dancing and it was the brides fault. That was your ego getting in the way. So by doing what you did you made yourself look good and the bride look bad. Doing what you did upset the bride. So your plan was to make her look bad?

Did anyone come up to you to complain about the songs you were playing that were on her list? If that happened that when you could have explained the situation that you were specifically told to not take any requests and don't play any song that not on her list. That way you don't look like the bad guy. Let them have it out with the bride and that way you stay out of it. Let her decide what she wants to do
 
MIXMASTERMACHOM said:
You mentioned earlier that you played a couple of songs that got the crowd on the dance floor so the guest could see that you weren't the problem why people weren't dancing and it was the brides fault. That was your ego getting in the way.
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You're a man who seems to take orders.
I'm a guy who solves problems.

I was hired to entertain a room full of guests and the bride gave me a plan that presumably was intended for that purpose.

The song departure provided me with TWO very important bits of information:

1. That the guests were willing, but stuck waiting, and wanting.
2. That the bride was intentionally dismissive of her guests.

Those two things are incompatible with my vocation.

This began with the 2 hours of HANG time between the ceremony and reception. Don't forget - the venue wasn't even OPEN for business yet when the ceremony ended. The guests didn't just arrive an hour early (during my setup) - they had already arrived to locked doors and had to find somewhere else to kill an additional hour. (Many of whom had probably skipped breakfast in order to travel to an 8:00am ceremony.)

I'll concede the bride may be entitled to do as she pleases, if she so chooses.
She had no right to make me an unwitting accomplice to this ridiculous lack of hospitality.

Had I seen this side of her personality during booking/consult - I'd have rescinded the booking.
MIXMASTERMACHOM said:
So by doing what you did you made yourself look good and the bride look bad. Doing what you did upset the bride.
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Not at all. We both looked bad but, if it was a race - she had a significant lead.

This was not in a large ballroom with plenty of room to roam. It was a lower dining room in a restaurant in old Boston. We were all in close proximity. There was no mystery about what was going in.

MIXMASTERMACHOM said:
So your plan was to make her look bad?
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No, my plan was to get her the results we had discussed - that which she claimed to want, including a list she believed would be the pathway. She wasn't simply wrong Mixx - She lied.

It was never her intention to give a rat's arse about her guests or the level of enjoyment. She was not hosting - she was punishing.

I've had other guests give me exclusive play only lists. If they see it's not working we talk and nearly everyone WANTS their guests to enjoy the dance floor. The most common instruction is: "do whatever it takes to keep the floor going, and sneak in as much of my list as you possibly can." I'm a risk taker. I'm perfectly willing to clear a dance floor just so long as I'm allowed to be equally bold about filling it back up.

MIXMASTERMACHOM said:
Did anyone come up to you to complain about the songs you were playing that were on her list? If that happened that when you could have explained the situation that you were specifically told to not take any requests and don't play any song that not on her list. That way you don't look like the bad guy. Let them have it out with the bride and that way you stay out of it. Let her decide what she wants to do
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Please don't do that to people.
Don't become a TOOL and a puppet in someone else's narcissistic rage. A continuous stream of slights on this scale is not an accident or even naivete, it's vengeance. This is a couple who's future is full of RSVP cards reading regret that we cannot attend . . .

I've had (and still have) clients who wanted me to keep to a strict list, or one style (Jazz or Big Band ONLY for example) but they take exceptional care of their guests and the music is an accessory to the well crafted experience. Yes. people ask if I can play something different but they also fully understand what and why were doing the program we are, and appreciate that.

Not so, at this wedding. Everyone making a request was completely dumbfounded at the bride's indifference to an empty dance floor and insulting guest experience. I didn't need to play other songs to prove anything. I did it because it was the right thing to do. You can say what you want but both departures were an olive branch. Each one was a chance for the bride to treat her guests with more respect and appreciation. Hell, to treat herself o a better experience. The bride herself was not even on the dance floor.

This event was also decades ago. Disc Jockeys as event entertainment has significant mileage and recognition today which allows people to be more open, better planners, better shoppers, and just better hosts.
 
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Proformance said:
You're a man who seems to take orders.
I'm a guy who solves problems.

I was hired to entertain a room full of guests and the bride gave me a plan that presumably was intended for that purpose.

The song departure provided me with TWO very important bits of information:

1. That the guests were willing, but stuck waiting, and wanting.
2. That the bride was intentionally dismissive of her guests.

Those two things are incompatible with my vocation.

This began with the 2 hours of HANG time between the ceremony and reception. Don't forget - the venue wasn't even OPEN for business yet when the ceremony ended. The guests didn't just arrive an hour early (during my setup) - they had already arrived to locked doors and had to find somewhere else to kill an additional hour. (Many of whom had probably skipped breakfast in order to travel an 8:00am ceremony.)

I'll concede the bride may be entitled to do as she pleases, if she so chooses.
She had no right to make me an unwitting accomplice to this ridiculous slight.

Had I seen this side of her personality during booking/consult - I'd have rescinded the booking.

Not at all. We both looked bad, but if it was a race - she had a significant head start.

This was not in a large ballroom with plenty of room to roam. It was lower dining room in restaurant in old Boston. We were all in close proximity. There was no mystery about what was going in.


No, my plan was to get her the results we had discussed - that which she claimed to want, including a list she believed would be the pathway. She wasn't simply wrong Mixx - She lied.

It was never her intention to give a rat's arse about her guests or the level of enjoyment. She was not hosting - she was punishing.

I've had other guests give me exclusive play only lists. If they see it's not working we talk and nearly everyone WANTS their guests to enjoy the dance floor. The most common instruction is: "do whatever it takes to keep the floor going, and sneak in as much of my list as you possibly can." I'm a risk taker. I'm perfectly willing to clear a dance floor just so long as I'm allowed to be equally bold about filling it back up.


Please don't do that to people.
Don't become a TOOL and a puppet in someone else's narcissistic rage. A continuous stream of slights on this scale is not an accident or even naivete, it's vengeance. This is a couple who's future is full of RSVP cards reading regret that we cannot attend . . .

I've had (and still have) clients who want(ed) me to keep to a strict list, or one style (Jazz or Big Band ONLY for example) but they take exceptional care of their guests and the music is an accessory to the well crafted experience. Yes. people ask if I can play something different but they also fully understand what and why were doing the program we are, and appreciate that.

Not so, at this wedding. Everyone making a request was completely dumbfounded at the bride's indifference to an empty dance floor and insulting guest experience. I didn't need to play other songs to prove anything. I did ir because it was the right thing to do - You can say what you want but both departures were an oliev branch. Each one was a chance for the bride to treat her guests with more respect and appreciation.

This event was also decades ago. Disc Jockeys as event entertainment now has significant mileage and recognition which allows people to be more open, better planners, better shoppers, and just better hosts.
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You're still deflecting. How did you look bad? I worked on my day job for 33 years. I had some idiot bosses at times. Not all but some. My job was to do what the boss told me to do within reason. I didn't get to tell the boss how to do their job. If the boss didn't do their job properly, there was a boss higher up to deal with the situation


To be fair to you I understand your feelings. It's not fun to have an event to do and trying to get people on the dance floor can be like pulling teeth. Sometimes there's nothing you can do to save an event. All you can do is don't stop doing what you were paid to do and when it's over hope you don't have another event like that one again.

Let me say this. You made yourself look bad when you decided to do what you wanted to do and not do as the person who hired you wanted you to do. It might have only been 2 songs, but that's 2 too many if they specifically told you to only play the songs from their list.

I agree with playing the Hokey Pokey 3-4 times and the Chicken Dance twice. That's extreme. I was guests at an event and the DJ doing the event played the Cha Cha Slide 3 times and another line dance song 3 times. That's crazy to me! A DJ should have enough songs to play at an private event that they shouldn't have to play a song twice unless requested.
 
MIXMASTERMACHOM said:
My job was to do what the boss told me to do within reason. I didn't get to tell the boss how to do their job. If the boss didn't do their job properly, there was a boss higher up to deal with the situation
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Read this and dwell on it before attempting a response. You are fundamentally confused about what it means to be an independent service provider rather than an employee.

The bride is NOT my boss.
I am technically and legally not even under her direction.

I have an AGREEMENT with the bride; contingent upon a published and very detailed POLICY and TERMS of SERVICE. I even have the right to terminate the service at any time and leave the event if the policy and terms are sufficiently violated.

This was in the gray area - she didn't violate an express policy, but she lied to me about her intentions. The express intention of my work is to entertain GUESTS at events - she instead, was intent on punishing them.
 
Proformance said:
That's simply not realistic.
If we do this long enough and often enough we will find unreasonable situations that defy common sense - the kind of things that create permanent change in the way we consult with people and plan for an event. Experience is an open road rather than a cul-de-sac.

I can recall one wedding early in my career that tunred out to be surreal. The bride had given me a specific list of songs and wanted NO deveiation from that list at all, The list itself was not a problem. Most of it was perfectly good music and nothing to be terribly concerned about. Providing people with exactly what they request is usually a highly fruitful path. It's not uncommon and I've navigated those waters countless times.

The whole reception turned out to be an other-wordly experince and I've never really been able to identify the full source of what was behind it all. (This was circa late 1980's maybe 1990.)

To start - all the guests arrived at the venue unusally early - like nearly an HOUR before the scheduled reception, and well ahead of any bar or food servcie being open. I myself - had only arrived on site 30 minutes prior to their surprise entry and was still in jeans setting up the gear.

Apparently, the ceremony was an 8:00 am church service, and the venue reception was 11:00 or 11:30 am. With no where to go after the recieving line most people went straight to the venue. I quickly setup and left the room to change clothes.

When I returned to the room things were even stranger; 100 people or more and the room was nearly SILENT (save for the background music.) That's right - virtaully no converstion. When the bar finally opened - nothing really changed. To this day, the event remains the most sedated group of people I've ever been among - including funerals! To me, it seemed like the room was filled with animosity or unease - a reality or situation that I was not privy too.

To make matters worse, the photographer kept hanging out near my booth. He was a guy with no quiet voice, and frequently commented to staff or myself about guests in the room. By dinner I wanted to shoot the man (and not with a camera!)

There were also a LOT of young children in attendance - as many as 15 and the bride's request included things like the Holey Pokey, and other songs aimed at that age. On it's face - not a problem. But if you've ever truly observed "playground" dynamics then you understand the level of separation older adults maintain from gymnastic enthusiasm.

Formalities and special dances all went as expected, and there were no issues. As for her requests, I stuck to the list but got anemic response, and a consitently empty dance floor. Not even the bride or wedding party responded. I think the Hokey Pokey was the fist "big" song as the bride, a few paarents and all the kids came out for it. But that's still only about 20 people out of 100 or more.

I followed that moment with a typical wedding song: "Twist & Shout - Beatles" which may or may not have been on her list and the dance floor packed. What I do know for certain is that the follow up song (or two) were not on her list. They were songs experience taught me would keep those people on the floor. I was right - but the bride was not pleased and immediately came over and told me to return to her list. I explained to her I was still committed to her list and the departure was merely a moment of lighter fluid to start the grill, She however, insisted on the play of NOTHING that wasn't on her list - including any request by a guest. I played the most powerful song I could find remaining on her list - and it cleared the floor.

NONE of her songs worked with this crowd despite the music itself not being ridiculously obscure or not danceable. I tried one other time to start a fire with a crowd pleaser (which again worked) but she immediately shut that down as well. She had me play the Hokey pokey at least 3 times, along with the Chicken dance twice. All this - to a still rather emotionless and socially stunted crowd.

To this day - I do not know what the particular issue behind this weird other-wordly situation was. I can't even say it was a learning eperience because "animosity" is not a DJ issue it's a job for counseling centers.

In the end I noticed she shorted my check by $100 but, I was just happy just to be leaving, She's the only customer to ever give me a negative review (pre-internet age, an I'm the only one who's ever seen it.) I found nothing in my effort that fell short of trying to please or accommodate this bride.

The only change this event made in my planning or consultations is with respect to "guest comfort" and inquiring about that transition between a remote ceremony location and the following reception. I had certainly noticed the dreadful and persistent impact of people arriving an hour before any food or beverage service was ready. Can you imagine getting up early (with kids) in time to make an 8:00 AM ceremony - and then have to kill 2 to 2-1/2 hours before the reception venue is ready?

The point is - we had conversations and we were on the same page. Perhaps, I made an assumption that left that 3 hour difference between ceremony and reception undiscussed, or perhaps I pointed it out and she indicated her own solution (IDK). The dynamics in that room turned out to be far deeper than the between time alone.

I've never forgotten the surreal experience and human disconnect of that event and it was at least 35 years ago in a full-time business.
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You said at the top of this post that the bride gave you a list of songs to play at HER WEDDING and to not deviate from her list. She even told you she didn't want you to take any requests. Yyou and come up to you ou never said when she told told you these things. Was it at the time she gave you the list or at the beginning of the reception? She had a right to be upset with playing those 2 songs after she specifically told you not to play any song that's not on HER LIST. So when you did that as you said it, you wanted to show the guests that you weren't the reason for people not dancing and having a good time. It was HER LIST. That easily could have been true.

You also said that there was nothing wrong with the list of songs she wanted you to play. So what was the problem? Was it HER LIST or was it you not knowing what to do with HER LIST to get people to get up and dance?

Again when someone gives you specific orders to only play the songs on the list they have given you, you are supposed to do as they want things to be done. If in the event that you are given a specific list of songs to play at an event and it's before the date of the event to ask the client if their list is not working and you see things are not going well, would it be okay if they do things to help the event along. If they say no then your hands are tied. Now what might happen is at the event if they see that the event is not going well they may decide to let the DJ take control of the event playing songs not on their list. My point is it's not your call to change things up a bit. Leave that to the client no matter how upset the guests get.
 
tunes4046 said:
This works in both DJing and the other aspects of your life.
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Amen.
Since my first days in radio,
I was a solo artist.
Making sure every commercial was accurate, entertaining, and ran when scheduled... was 100% MY responsibility.
I carried that responsibility into my DJ career and my life in general.
Although I am known to "explain" my mistakes (aka make excuses) it was all an effort to save my ego, which is very important for a mobile DJ, or someone in radio.
But I do know that in the end, it's all on me.
 
Proformance said:
How's that been working out for you?
PS:
Did I give you a heads up on a controller case?

See: DJ Road Case
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First that case would do me no good and second if and when that has happened I've learned to not take it personal. First if someone gave me a list of songs to play long before the day of the event I would find out if their list is not working for their event would it be okay for me to improvise. If they say no then I just do as I'm instructed to do. Thankfully most potential clients trust I know what I'm doing and don't give me a long list of songs to play at their event. I do my best to make them feel comfortable with me that I will know what I'm doing.

There's a thing called knowing how to read a crowd. What I have done at some events is throw out test songs to see if that will get a response from the crowd. Do I always hit the mark? Of course not. More often than not I get things right.

To be fair Bob what happened to you at that wedding was horrible. I don't wish that on any DJ.

I still can't forget an event we did a long time ago. It was to be a 50th birthday celebration and that's all I was told. It turns out it was a family reunion as well. As much as I kept insisting on getting music the lady wanted for her birthday celebration I didn't get anything. So we did what we would normally do and it wasn't good. Of course I will have some on here say I didn't do enough to find out what the lady wanted for the event in terms of music. I gave the guy that hired us all kind of ways for her to contact me and got nothing.

Good thing the event the next night went 10 times better than that one. Thankfully it's been a long time that has happened.
 
MIXMASTERMACHOM said:
What I have done at some events is throw out test songs to see if that will get a response from the crowd.
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How is this any different than what I just described?

How was it not prudent for me to demonstrate for the bride where the crowd is truly situated?

This revealed the bride for who she truly was - a person hell bent on punishing people rather than entertaining them. That's a narcissist - a person who would burn their own house down just to spite people. Note this: the groom was non-existent in any of this back and forth. The guy (and his family in attendance) not even relevant to the discussion. This chic was the very definition of a Bridezilla.

Of course, any mistakes I may have made in this would of course, - be Jeff's fault.
 
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Proformance said:
How is this any different than what I just described?

How was it not prudent for me to demonstrate for the bride where the crowd is truly situated?

This revealed the bride for who she truly was - a person hell bent on punishing people rather than entertaining them. That's a narcissist - a person who would burn their own house down just to spite people. Note this: the groom was non-existent in any of this back and forth. The guy (and his family in attendance) not even relevant to the discussion. This chic was the very definition of a Bridezilla.

Of course, any mistakes I may have made in this would of course, - be Jeff's fault.
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You're still missing it. You were given specific orders to only play songs from the list you were given and you decided to do your own thing. In return you upset the bride. She had a right to be upset. You keep feeding your ego into this. I know what would work best for the crowd at that wedding. I'm not saying we're wrong because as you said the dance floor got filled up. You were trying to force her to do things your way. The couple was paying you. Not the other way around.
 
Adrian, question ? How many weddings do you ave. Each year. You try too post as if you an expert.
 
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Proformance said:
Orders?

Service and servitude are not the same thing.
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Bob I know you're not going to agree with what I'm going to say because your ego is bigger than the universe.

You were booked to ro a wedding. So that means you agreed to do the wedding. You were given a list of songs to play and were told to only play songs that was on the list and you were told to not take any requests.

I understand you when you said the wedding was a disaster playing the songs on her list because nobody was on the dance floor. You said you decided to play those 2 songs to see if her list was the reason people weren't dancing and would those 2 songs get people out on the dance floor. You said it worked but it also upset the bride and she came up to you complaining. You were told what to do and because you decided that the bride's list wasn't working you decide to do your own thing.

You were totally wrong doing what you did. The bride had every right to be upset with you. You said you played those two songs to see if they would get people on the dance floor and convince her to let you do you. Before you did what you did I doubt you talked it over with the bride


Now to be fair to you I understand you being upset with the way the wedding was going with people not dancing. That's a horrible feeling!and you had a right to be upset with how the wedding was turning out. Just keep in mind you were getting paid to do a job, not the other way around.

I also get it when you said the bride had you to play the Hokey Pokey 3 times and the same line dance song 3 times. I do my best at a private event to only play a song once unless I get a request to play it again.

Here's how I would have handled the situation. If a guest came up to me complaining about the music I'm playing, I would have explained the situation to them and let know what I was instructed to do. Let them decide if they want to speak to the couple about letting the DJ change the music. That way I'm in the clear.

The other option would be to go over and have a brief conversation with the couple to ask can I change the music a bit because there's nobody dancing right now. Leave it up to the couple to decide what they want to do. If they say no just keep playing the songs on her list, then that's what I do regardless how painful it is for me and the guests. Keep in mind who's paying you to do the job. Not the guests and the client has the final say so about how they want the event to go.

There are some clients in a case like what you described would agree to the DJ changing the music to try to get the guests to get up and dance. Others won't budge.

I also understand that you couldn't wait for that wedding to be over with so you can get out of there and forget about that wedding, hoping the next event you do turns out much better than the last one..

What you did reminds me of 2 songs. Frank Sinatra I did it my way and CJ & Company We got our own thing.
 
Proformance said:
I don't think 'ego' is the thing that separates our positions.
Your persistence reminds me also - not so much a song, but a band: Asleep At the Wheel.
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It was your ego that told you to play those 2 songs that were not on her list for you to play. You asked what is the difference between what you did and me throwing out test songs to see what will get the crowd on the dance floor. You were given a list of songs to play and were told to not play anything that's not on the list.

When I do what I said that's where I'm given genres of music to play for an event and have the freedom to switch up the music to find what the crowd would like me to play to get on the dance floor. If I'm given a strict list of songs to play for an event and get told to only play songs from the list, then that's what I do. Thankfully rarely do I get a client who presents me with a long list of songs to play for their event.
 
MIXMASTERMACHOM said:
It was your ego that told you to play those 2 songs that were not on her list for you to play. You asked what is the difference between what you did and me throwing out test songs to see what will get the crowd on the dance floor. You were given a list of songs to play and were told to not play anything that's not on the list.

When I do what I said that's where I'm given genres of music to play for an event and have the freedom to switch up the music to find what the crowd would like me to play to get on the dance floor. If I'm given a strict list of songs to play for an event and get told to only play songs from the list, then that's what I do. Thankfully rarely do I get a client who presents me with a long list of songs to play for their event.
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Ah! So, the difference is finesse?
Now I see it. Your approach is like a beach with fine sand, mine -the sand is still coarse and rough.
No doubt that's why there's the Master in Mixx Master Machom. :)

Thank you!
All this time I was thinking 2 songs (out of ~100) was just common sense.
Can you recommend a therapist? Perhaps an online DJ training video?


 
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Proformance said:
Ah! So, the difference is finesse?
Now I see it. You approach is like a beach with fine sand, mine -the sand is still coarse and rough.
No doubt that's why there's the Master in Mixx Master Machom. :)

Thank you!
All this time I was thinking 2 songs (out of ~100) was just common sense.
Can you recommend a therapist? Perhaps an online DJ training video?


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I knew you wouldn't get it. This has nothing to do with out of 100 songs you playing 2 songs that were not on from the list. It's about the disrespect you showed that bride. You were performing for the couples wedding and not your own event.
 
MIXMASTERMACHOM said:
This has nothing to do with out of 100 songs you playing 2 songs that were not on from the list. It's about the disrespect you showed that bride. You were performing for the couples wedding and not your own event.
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Perhaps I have it all wrong.

How many wedding receptions of 150 people or more have you completed personally (solo) in your illustrious DJ career? What is your technique when doing introductions, etc.?

(Like a fine wine, I'm interested in the meticulous fermentation process behind the dearth of simultaneous exceptionalism and conformity you are sharing.)
 
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