So I got a quick sample of the Bose L1 today

I'm not evan bother to quote what is largely a complete load... that is no way to make a fair comparison without having a complete Bose system that being at least 1 L1 and 2 B1s... and most DJs will call that only half of a system.. to do it right you really should have 2 L1s and 4 B1s with preset 58... do that then come back and tell me it does't hold up against 2 piddly 10" speakers on sticks... and I will admit defeat and go buy some 10" speakers to replace my inadequate Bose system.

jokerswild said:

I'm not evan bother to quote what is largely a complete load... that is no way to make a fair comparison without having a complete Bose system that being at least 1 L1 and 2 B1s... and most DJs will call that only half of a system.. to do it right you really should have 2 L1s and 4 B1s with preset 58... do that then come back and tell me it does't hold up against 2 piddly 10" speakers on sticks... and I will admit defeat and go buy some 10" speakers to replace my inadequate Bose system.

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Rob,

I guess you missed the part about "compared to a single 10" speaker powered by 250 watts! The L1 has 500 watts in the stick alone, I would say main for main that is certainly more than a fair comparision. But to truly give a fair comparision of the L1 "complete system" being a pair of L1's and 4 subs at $5000, then let's compare it to a full pro sound conventional setup of equal cost. Are you saying that would be more fair to the Bose system than my comparision and testing? Surely you jest!

Let's say do a comparision with equal amounts of power to equal number of powered units is that more fair? Lets see the L1 uses two sections of stick with two separate 250 watt power amps to the stick and 250 watts per B1 module. So would a fair comparision be testing it against 4 12 inch mains with 250 watts per and 4 15" subs with 250 watts per? Again you have to be kidding!

So how would you do a comparision and what would you deem fair in testing!

Should the numbers only reflect the off axsis response?

Should frequency input only be within the range capabilities of the L1?

You pick the parameters of the testing!

In one word... No

but if ya want to pit 2 10" @ 250w each and two subs any size agt 250w each as proposed in your original comparison fine... but you changed the rules...

and no pitting just an L1 which as you obviously know does not deal with the full range like that of a conventiona system would be more like pitting a three way against another three way that's missng the woofer...

Likewise a L1 without at least 1 B1 would be the same they are ment to be run as a set.

You set a completely unfair comparison by handicapping the Bose by running it without an integral part and expecting it to perform as a complete setup...

Come on now evan some noob like me can see that a system like you mention is going to out perform the Bose...

As I say to be fair it would need to be 2 250w speakers on sticks with 2 250w subs vs. 2 L1s with 2 B1s with presert 58 then we have a match.

Youch, that anchor system is FUGLY! :sqerr:

Jeff, you KNOW that you mention Bose, and some of the naysayers just can't help themselves. It is just in their blood, it seems. They go out of there way to swing a topic just so they can put it down.... and what is FUNNY, IMO, is that none of the Bose users I know even think that they have the greatest sounding system under the sun, but the naysayers like to pretend that we do think that. It's like a sickness or disease.

There are many reason to buy a Bose system.

Jeff Romard said:

LOL

Really the only thing that makes Bose in any way pretty is the fact it has a small footprint. The L1 always reminded me of one of these

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:sqerr: I actually agree.... as far as the powerstand goes. I would love for that to look a whole lot nicer.

I'm with the both of you... I would never lay claim to a complete Bose system being able to out perform and 8 speaker FOH system accept as pointed out off Axis.... that's why Thunder's proposed system comparison was preposterous at the very least and completely unrealistic. Apples and Oranges or more like Apples and Bananas....

Jeff Romard said:

LOL

Really the only thing that makes Bose in any way pretty is the fact it has a small footprint. The L1 always reminded me of one of these

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Hey,

Maybe THAT's how Obama will get a basketball hoop in the whitehouse....

Yeah,

Back to your thread.....

I see it the following way. These are your work tools, if the Bose works for you great, if you want to bring in armor piercing firepower bring in the big stuff. The use of the appropriate tool is what matters. A big system can be more versatile because you can lower volumes and have great sound, but when you need a broadside you open it up and voila.

But let's be realistic at most weddings you do not want bass that will make the head table and guests bounce towards the nearest wall. This is where the Bose has an advantage in load in and load out requiring less effort even though you may need to make more trips. Besides there's an aesthetic advantage to the Bose over many others. Let's face it having 4 Cerwin Vega AB36 Afterburners, 4 tops and to add insult to injury a pair of dually 15" cabs facing the dance floor will probably take attention away from the important people which are the bride and groom.

And people will think you're nuts (By the way I know I am), so we're back to the same starting point just because somebody uses the, Bose, EV, EAW, JBL, American Audio, Gemini, etc. does not make one better than the other.

It's the service you provide, you can make any system sound good if you know what you're doing, but you also need to realize when a system won't cut it. Whether it's size of event, bride & grooms requests, aesthetics, wall of sound, etc.

Bose has intrigued me a lot and I'm thinking of purchasing one once I'm back in the US, but in the near future I'm seeing EV on my map

Jeff Romard said:

I'm almost sorry I started this thread....

The L1 is no comparison for a FOH system it was never meant to be. It doesn't matter if you add 100 L1s and 100 B1s you won't get any more bass mid or high you will just get louder bass mid and high. 80 Hz is 80 Hz and physics is physics these things don't change.

When you go off axis the L1 will out peform a conventional system because thats what it's designed to do. I haven't tested this A/B but I will put money that it won't beat other similar line arrays lke those made by JBL or Anchor audio. Bose has learned to do it with less weight though

At the end of the day it all comes down to what works for you and the client

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Jeff - I know your pain...

:tomshorse: were the second coming

Can anyone point me to where the remains of this horse are?

I'd like to beat it a while.

Some things never change and it is as true now as it was in the late 70's/early 80's when the 901s were offered as the second coming.

No Highs, No lows, must be Bose!

P.S. My current vehicle has a Bose system and it sounds better than my previous vehicle's Stock system but cannot begin to compare to systems I owned in my younger days that utilized larger diameter drivers to produce the bass and sub-bass frequencies and non paper drivers to produce the upper ranges.

Bose is what it is. To suggest it is worthless is nonsense..as is the beliefs that they have magical properties and are superior to more conventional equipment.

Jeff Romard said:

I'm almost sorry I started this thread....

The L1 is no comparison for a FOH system it was never meant to be. It doesn't matter if you add 100 L1s and 100 B1s you won't get any more bass mid or high you will just get louder bass mid and high. 80 Hz is 80 Hz and physics is physics these things don't change.

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Jeff,

I think I said this in my first post on the subject, the L1 was designed as a stage monitor for musicians! And it works well for this.

Rob,

I believe I stated that in my test between the L1 and the 10" speaker that the same source was used for both systems in the test (no rules were changed between the two systems) an 80 hertz signal is 80 hertz doesn't make any difference if it is coming from the Bose or a 10" inch conventional speaker. a 1K hertz signal is the same as well, as is a 15K signal. Either the tested unit has dynamic range or it doesn't. No added processing was used with the 10" conventional speaker why should additional processing be added to the L1? No sub was added to the conventional speaker why should one be added to the L1 for testing? The L1 uses two separate line arrays (speaker systems in each stick) so an honest comparision would be against two 10" conventionals (I did it both ways) Figure the cone area presented by the L1 versus a single 10" speaker and you will see that the testing in theory should have heavily favored the L1. The power difference should have also heavily favored the L1 as the L1 has two 250 watt amps for the stick and only a single 250 watt supplied the 10".

Yet you say the testing should favor the Bose even more heavily to the L1 by doubling it and adding subs! It simply doesn't add up!

Thunder said:

.

Rob,

I believe I stated that in my test between the L1 and the 10" speaker that the same source was used for both systems in the test (no rules were changed between the two systems) an 80 hertz signal is 80 hertz doesn't make any difference if it is coming from the Bose or a 10" inch conventional speaker. a 1K hertz signal is the same as well, as is a 15K signal. Either the tested unit has dynamic range or it doesn't. No added processing was used with the 10" conventional speaker why should additional processing be added to the L1?

I never said you changed the rules buy adding anything signal wise to the sound of either device.... what you changed in an earlier post was the total number of Tops and Bottoms in the proposed comparison system.... but as to adding the preset to the L1 that is an important piece that is missing and is needed to perform to the standards that DJs are accustom to.

Also, comparing a complete speaker (ie Full range speaker with 10" driver and more than likely a Horn driver as well) versus an incomplete Bose system is tantamount to comparing two full range speakers with one missing a key driver (ie the 10" driver). If you are going to compare a complete Full range speaker to a complete Bose system then the Bose system must include at least one bass bin. The bass bin is an integral component to the Bose system just as a 10" driver is integral to a Full range speaker.

Some may disagree but, to me a complete Bose system is comparable to a single box full range speaker and includes at a minimum one L1 and one B1

No sub was added to the conventional speaker why should one be added to the L1 for testing? The L1 uses two separate line arrays (speaker systems in each stick) so an honest comparision would be against two 10" conventionals (I did it both ways) Figure the cone area presented by the L1 versus a single 10" speaker and you will see that the testing in theory should have heavily favored the L1. The power difference should have also heavily favored the L1 as the L1 has two 250 watt amps for the stick and only a single 250 watt supplied the 10".

See above... for why the B1 should be included... you handicapped the Bose system by not including an important piece of the system.

The wattage that the L1 puts out is shared by the B1 which is why my point about the B1 being an integral part of the Bose system a huge point, a point some just don't get. The L1 and B1 while in separate cabinets are components of the whole not separate parts. Physically they are separate but must be used together to complete the system. Would you disconnect the 10" woofer in the full range speaker and still consider it a complete system, no.

Yet you say the testing should favor the Bose even more heavily to the L1 by doubling it and adding subs! It simply doesn't add up!

Again having a B1 is not adding to an existing system it is completing the system. Arguing this fact is silly IMHO it's comparable to removing key components from a full range speaker system and expecting it to perform as well as a complete full range speaker system.

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See above

Rob,
I'll try again both systems were limited to frequencies between 80 hertz - 15K hertz a 10" speaker pretty much is limited to 60 hertz at -3DB anyway so there is no handi-cap there for the L1 that of course is assuming on my part that it is capable of a dynamic range between 80 and 15K hertz.

When I purchased the L1 it was toted as a stand alone system the B1 modules were add ons for better sub frequency response, since I wasn't going below 80 hertz which is well within the capabilities of 99.9% of conventional speakers of any size, it certainly should be well within the capabilities of the L1. Since the 58 preset simply increases the sub frequencies and I wasn't using anything below 80 hertz it certainly doesn't seem like any fair or even a necessary addition to the test unless you would consider it fair to also run a Kosmos system on the comparative conventional speaker.

Changing the rules to match conventional cabinet for each section of the L1 with equal power to each! Well that really isn't changing the rules it would be effecting a fair and balanced comparision! You see my testing was already leaning heavily in favor of the L1 to begin with.

A proper comparison between an L1 with two B1 modules and conventional speakers based on cone area and power would be:

two 15" mains powered by 250 watts per cabinet and two 15" subs with 250 watts of power each. Even against this the L1 and (2) B1's should still have the edge based on cone area! There simply isn't any argument that can be laid out in any fashion to the contrary.

Now how fair does the test between a single L1 and a single or even double 10" mains look to you?

Please give a basic scientific approach to your testing basis!

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaauuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugh!

I give up.... so let's agree to disagree..... I stand by my convictions and you stand by yours..... and we both can live happily in our naivety in total bliss.

jokerswild said:

These are not simple plastic speakers...

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Ever had one apart?

I beg to differ with you!

Thunder said:

Ever had one apart?

I beg to differ with you!

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I don't need to take apart a Ferrari to find out why it is so freaking fast, so why would I need to take apart my Bose to find out why it sounds so freaking awesome?

That was a rhetorical question...

Alright, if you wish to make a truly fair and complete comparison, you cannot ignore and discount system costs.

For $2499 you can get 1 stick and one B1. If you want stereo double that.

So for $5K you get a stereo speaker system with an amplifier rated at 500W output.

I own and can, with no fear of contradiction, opine that my 2 JBL SRX 715s ($2600) + 1 of my Crown 4000 XTi's ($1000) can outperform that Bose L1 system and for $1400 less...and the rated output is 1300W

If I add 1 SRX 718s ($1000) and feed it with another Crown 4K XTi, bridged and yielding 2400W @ 8ohms ($1000), I am only $600 over the proposed L1/B1 x 2 system but $10K better sounding.