Religion?????

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Ok, so lots of folks here might say that what the bomber believed was wrong.

If they can say that the religious belief of the bomber is wrong aren't they doing the exact same thing as what I was saying about religion?

At that point you're judging someone else's religious beliefs.

It doesn't matter if what they came to believe is written in the Koran or not. It's their religious belief.

You guys think we should be tolerant of other religious beliefs and respect them, don't criticize what other people believe.

What do you REALLY believe in your mind and heart that you won't dare reveal to other people? Secretly you believe your religion is better and the one true way of believing.

You probably think these people living in the jungle who believe in magic and spirits are primitive savages. How different are your ides about the mystery of god than those of the people in the jungle? Isn't god magic and spirits?

You have written language, the people in the jungle don't. Your ancestors wrote some stories down and the stories were compiled into a book. The book was passed down from generation to generation. No one knows who wrote the book, but everyone believes the words in the book are a profound revelation of the magical spirit that no one can see or hear or touch or sense in any way except in their mind.
 
GoodKnightDJ said:
When the Sacred Months are over, kill those who ascribe partners to God wheresoever ye find them; seize them, encompass them, and ambush them; then if they repent and observe prayer and pay the alms, let them go their way (Koran 4:5)

You tell me.
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Thanks, Tom. I stand corrected. :)
 
God transcends the law of man doesn't he?

If the bomber thinks he is doing the will of god, what do the laws of man mean to him?

He's on a mission from god.

Couldn't the same thing be applied to blessing soldiers who go into battle to kill other human beings? Do they really have god's blessing to go out and kill other children of god? Is that what god would want? Is that why god created human beings? If you were god would you create man in your image that had the capacity to kill and go to war? Is god that imperfect that he can't make a better creation than that? Isn't god perfect?
 
From wikipedia, edited a bit:
The Rastafari movement also known as Rastafari, or simply Rasta is a new religious movement that accepts Haile Selassie I, the former Emperor of Ethiopia, as God incarnate, called Jah or Jah Rastafari. He is also seen as part of the Holy Trinity as the messiah promised in the Bible to return. Light up a big sacramental fattie and partake of the Rasta sacrament. Eight years ago THERE WERE MORE THAN ONE MILLION RASTAFARI. Rastafari developed among an oppressed people who felt society had nothing to offer them except more suffering. Most Rastafari believe that Selassie is in some way a reincarnation of Jesus and that the Rastafari are the true Israelites.
 
Ok, so lots of folks here might say that what the bomber believed was wrong.

If they can say that the religious belief of the bomber is wrong aren't they doing the exact same thing as what I was saying about religion?

At that point you're judging someone else's religious beliefs.
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What the bomber believes is what he or she has been taught to believe. It's not my place to decide whether one's beliefs are right or wrong. I happen to believe that killing people for no other purpose than to fulfill an agenda is wrong but that's just me. It's what I was taught. The bomber was taught differently.
It doesn't matter if what they came to believe is written in the Koran or not. It's their religious belief.

You guys think we should be tolerant of other religious beliefs and respect them, don't criticize what other people believe.
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I agree completely.
What do you REALLY believe in your mind and heart that you won't dare reveal to other people? Secretly you believe your religion is better and the one true way of believing.
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I don't harbor those thoughts, my friend. Religious beliefs are personal. No one can honestly say one belief or doctrine is "better" than another. It is a personal choice. One could ask ten Christians (or Muslims or Buddhists) about their convictions and one would likely get ten different answers. The core practice is still there but the individual's personal thoughts will differ.
You probably think these people living in the jungle who believe in magic and spirits are primitive savages. How different are your ides about the mystery of god than those of the people in the jungle? Isn't god magic and spirits?

You have written language, the people in the jungle don't. Your ancestors wrote some stories down and the stories were compiled into a book. The book was passed down from generation to generation. No one knows who wrote the book, but everyone believes the words in the book are a profound revelation of the magical spirit that no one can see or hear or touch or sense in any way except in their mind.
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I don't think that at all. This is a difference in culture. We are all products of our respective environments. When in Rome, do as the Romans so to speak. I may not necessarily agree with it but my agreement isn't needed. This is a matter of tolerance moreso than religious doctrine. At one time many people believed things like wind, lighting and the tides were caused by magic and spirits. Those beliefs were later debunked by scientific research. Yet, superstition remains to this day.

The Christian Bible is in fact a large collection of journals and diaries and was written over many generations by many authors. Most Christians consider the Bible to be the word of God, yet it was written by humans. Humans are not infallible. :)

Thoughts?
 
and now once again its based all on personal preference and Choice. Im glad this wonderful being or Beings has given us free will and CHOICE.

Perhaps Ron Wiz you've been ignoring my posts as youve not addressed any of my thoughts. My way is open minded how about yours? I see a universal being and each culture and civilization see it in a cultural based viewpoint. Who is to say which one is the right way? Though each culture and each belief method is very different in many ways, once studied you will find many overlapping stories and structure to the faith. This is why I believe it was left to interpretation by a very awesome being. Exhibit A. Look at how many factions of just the Baptist church there are, and how many different church entities there are in just the USA alone. All of these like each and every religion or belief based on interpretation. I believe it was designed for individual experience.

In the end Im convinced that there is an inborn sense of right and wrong universal. Having studied and been a part of many different religious teachings, Im quite secure in saying seperatism will not be a factor in the big scheme (remember I said the total picture is not within our miniscule ability to comprehend).

I dont claim to know anything and so take my thoughts for what they are WORTH or move on to the next thought it might be the right one for you.
Thanks for your time.
 
Amazing Lou isn't it? That's why I moved here.....

Pretty cool peeps - I've had my say and that's that -

Everyone has differing opinions and it's great that no sad bickering bleeds or destroys this site. True Democracy :)
 
I'm not sure how to respond to you Jon. Most of the time I don't understand what you're saying.

I know this, I know your heart is in the right place and that your intention is to be a good person, to do good and try to help others.

Sometimes you make me laugh. I imagine if we met we would have some god fun and some laughs.

What no one can tell from what I write and what no one will believe is that that I'm a very jolly and happy person.

I laugh and joke and smile all the time. But I have serious thoughts too and I think a lot about the things we have discussed here.
 
The Wizard Of OZ said:
I honestly wish that this discussion would never have been started and that I had the self control to not participate. I don't want to be reviled and disliked, but I can't help myself. I said what I said, those of you who are spiritual or religious won't like it. I'm sorry, it's the way I feel. I've given this a lot of thought and debated it before. Say what you want, think of me as the devil if it makes you feel better. It's the truth as I know it. Am I sure? Hell no. Are you? How can you be? How can you know more than anyone else? Do you really think Billy Graham knows any more about god that you do? Why? He's nothing more than a real good salesman.
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Thanks for your personal feelings,Mostly negative.:sqconfused:
 
The Wizard Of OZ said:
God transcends the law of man doesn't he?

If the bomber thinks he is doing the will of god, what do the laws of man mean to him?

He's on a mission from god.

Couldn't the same thing be applied to blessing soldiers who go into battle to kill other human beings? Do they really have god's blessing to go out and kill other children of god? Is that what god would want? Is that why god created human beings? If you were god would you create man in your image that had the capacity to kill and go to war? Is god that imperfect that he can't make a better creation than that? Isn't god perfect?
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Religious beliefs have caused many wars on this planet and this will continue till the end.

What I am going to ask you to do is sit in a quiet room. Turn off the phone, turn off the TV and radio, and just go for non-interrupted silence. Then listen to your heart. What does it tell you about killing others?

One could say that the suicide bomber has been brainwashed; repeatedly told that this is what God wants till it is firmly believed. One could also say that I have been brainwashed by my faith as well; but, my faith tells me that to kill another person is wrong, to love my enemy, and if those I am preaching the Word to do not accept it, shake the dust of their town from my sandalls and move on.

Which brainwashing would you rather have? I like my brainwashing.
 
Oz:

Fred had posed this question:

Fred Stewart said:
As far as I am aware, there is no religious doctrine in original form that advocates the murder of innocent people
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My quote from the Koran was answering that question.

The Wizard Of OZ said:
It doesn't matter if what they came to believe is written in the Koran or not. It's their religious belief.
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I agree. But, also, their belief advocates the murder of people that do not have the same belief as them. This in effect is putting their beliefs above all others; that is, their way is the only right way and all others must be eliminated.

I am very tolerant of other beliefs but I am not going to be very tolerant of someone that wants to kill me just because I have different beliefs than them. I will try to reason with them but if they are pointing a gun at me and I happen to get the upperhand; that is, it is a choice of me or them, I choose me.
 
barry stamper said:
How about them RedSox!!:sqbiggrin: (my attempt at a thread derail for the good of the board)
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I am very tolerant of other beliefs but I am not going to be very tolerant of someone that wants to beat the Orioles. I will try to reason with them but if they are going to tell me that some other team is better than the Orioles even if the Orioles might be having a bad season then I am going to tell them that they are full of do do.

Actually, I thought the debate was going well.
 
Now Tom you went to far you dropped the gauntlet with the Do Do! The orioles(notice no capitalization) are nothing but a bunch of Cootie Eating Butt Buzzards.
 
barry stamper said:
Now Tom you went to far you dropped the gauntlet with the Do Do! The orioles(notice no capitalization) are nothing but a bunch of Cootie Eating Butt Buzzards.
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And the RedSox are a bunch of Cooties that are going to get eaten alive. :sqlaugh:
 
Wiz, I think what is being said is...so what if Haile Selassie is or isnt god? Who cares if Ganesh really did or didnt come from the mountain and kill his son, then replace his head with a passing elephants? Who cares if some God purportedly gave his sons life, borne of a virgin, for our sins, only to miraculously arise 3 days later, who cares if it is indeed Allah we will be answering to...who cares if Mohammed is the prophet we should have all listened to...who cares if the Wiccans got it right...and maybe it really is all a meaningless pile of coincidence and there is no reward or creator and when we die it is all over.

Who cares? Exactly...only the individual following that belief. Why is it important to us to know that the person next to us believes the same as we do, and if they dont, we feel the need to change them or persecute them?

Why should we care about anyone elses beliefs?

There are all sorts of beliefs...why should we narrow it down to one, or even say that anyone who believes anything is an idiot? Who are we to judge our neighbor for what they think?

I could care less if Muslims moved next door to me. Muslims as a rule are peaceful. Suppose they were radical muslims and decided to start killing Christians? Why then, that would be a different story, one that transcends belief. I would feel they have a right to THINK they should kill others, but when they actually started doing it, I would be in line to insist that they are stopped.

If you were to apply tolerance to their beliefs, and they were to as well, there would be no problem. Whatever the belief, or lack of, I think that starting it with the golden rule is the most perfect premise...that is, if we were all to merely treat others exclusively how we expected to be treated, the world would be closer to a perfect place.

What do you care if your neighbors are Satanists, Baptists, Wiccans or worship Joe Pesce? We each have to look after our own house, right?
 
The Joe Pesce reference was inspired by George Carlin actually. He is a non believer who has a great rant about God...and prayer. He makes an observation that one could pray to God, and then also pray to Joe Pesce, and the odds of the prayers being answered were about equal, and that Joe really seemed more like a guy who could get things done.

Watch it here...with an open mind...

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.
 
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