Pricing for DJ vs. Photographer
- Thread starter Abbey Lane
- Start date
I know of one.....I'm booked in 2010 to play the 25th anniversary of a couple I did a wedding for.
That being said folks let's try and keep this thread civil
I hope I didn't come across as not being civil, that is not my point. Photographers, as a whole, do a much better job of realizing the value of the product that they provide. They are much better business people and as a group they are much smarter than us DJs. We constantly undervalue ourselves and our services and then attack anyone who says differently. I very much look forward to a time when this is not true.
I can't say I disagree with you Photographers as a whole do a much better job sticking together. I know in my market there are several different price points for photographers and several different styles of work. The cheap ones don't try to represent themselves as the best just cheaper but the other side is they have tangable proof of thier work, photographs, to prove what they can do
Let's keep this from becoming a worth debate and make it something positive. Since this is the marketing forum what can DJs do to market themselves better and show thier value?
One way is through video.... we've all seen the VLogs... why not take those video's and mash them into short promo's.... there's your tangable DJ results.
One thing I always found about the Vlogs is they are built by DJs for DJs. Rarley do you see an intro or a Garter and Boquet done or any of the many other things we do.
1. Take pics of events and set up a nice website
2. Spend money on books, training videos, magazines, sales seminars (this should probably be number one), and whatever else that may make us better at our craft and at representing ourselves to our clients.
3. Join Toastmasters
4. Practice before every event.
5. Raise our self esteem as a group.
6. Stop biting every hand that tries to feed us.
2. Spend money on books, training videos, magazines, sales seminars (this should probably be number one), and whatever else that may make us better at our craft and at representing ourselves to our clients.
3. Join Toastmasters
4. Practice before every event.
5. Raise our self esteem as a group.
6. Stop biting every hand that tries to feed us.
That's true... and unless you pay a videographer to record those instances for you.... you're left with whatever you can record when you aren't mixing, announcing or music searching.... unless of course you just point your camera and press record.... then edit it down manually and hope you catch those magic moments that make us shine.
I think that DJs should market their own strengths and not the weaknesses of themselves or their competition. By focusing upon your strengths, you promote yourself in a positive light.
I think that providing a neat, informative website with pictures can help. Setting up Facebook fan pages and YouTube accounts are also helpful. Being a professional writer by degree, I believe that balanced document design and polished, meaningful text that is free of grammatical and spelling errors is an overlooked key to professionalism.
Of course, word of mouth is a wonderful marketing tool, but in my opinion, it can only get you so far. For example, we have a lot of graduate students in my area who come here for their degrees and leave. Our clients from that market are the ones who decide to get married along the way. I don't think that word of mouth is helpful with this area of the market because of the turnover. This is one of the reasons that the J Mac and I have booths in local bridal shows. Aside from allowing us the opportunity to market our personalities, bridal shows help us reach new clients.
To sum up, I believe that DJs can promote themselves better and show their value more by emphasizing their strengths, rather than the weaknesses of themselves and their competition. Websites, Facebook fan pages, Youtube accounts, bridal shows, and word of mouth are useful marketing tools that DJs can use to promote their value to prospective clients. Whatever you use, keep it neat, fresh, and free of spelling and grammatical errors.
Whenever I have a real good reception where there is a pro hired videographer, I always approach him/her towards the end of the event and ask if I could buy a copy of the finished DVD.
If it's a go, I give whatever price is requested - usually $20 to $40 - that night in cash and get his card.
I've got probably two dozen DVD's over the past 15 years. I just wish I knew how to put together a "greatest hits" DVD short. That would be great to give out to prospective clients.
Heck, I'd even carry a few with me if a potential bride approached me at a reception - much more effective than just a business card. How much could each copy run - $2.00 or $3.00?
If it's a go, I give whatever price is requested - usually $20 to $40 - that night in cash and get his card.
I've got probably two dozen DVD's over the past 15 years. I just wish I knew how to put together a "greatest hits" DVD short. That would be great to give out to prospective clients.
Heck, I'd even carry a few with me if a potential bride approached me at a reception - much more effective than just a business card. How much could each copy run - $2.00 or $3.00?
My observations:
To me, the photos are more important (or videos), as J Mac mentioned.
If you walk in my front door, you will see large framed prints of my Grandma and Grandpa's wedding, then them at their 50th anniversary. I also have the large prints of my parents wedding.
Music -- don't know, wasn't there, don't care -- Grandma and Grandpa might have though...
As to the video for DJs, I can't stress that enough. And I don't mean the VLogs (those are for our consumption). If a customer can watch you intro a bridal party, do some traditional wedding/party stuff, etc., then you can book them without all kinds of meetings, and time wasters.
Simple enough to do -- grab a Flip or other camcorder, put it pointing at you, and let her rip. Edit it to a nice promo, and you've got gold in your hands
Clients are not looking to see pics/videos of full dance floors -- they want to know what you look like, your mannerisms, your vocals, etc. You could be the best DJ in the world, but if you do not fit their needs/looks/mannerisms/voice, yer either not gonna get the gig, or you will disappoint them...
Unless you are a multi-op, you are selling yourself -- not a packed dance floor. The only people that care if the dance floor is always packed -- are DJs.
I wish I had had the internet, and all the technology available today, when I was in my heyday -- I'd milk it for all it was worth...
To me, the photos are more important (or videos), as J Mac mentioned.
If you walk in my front door, you will see large framed prints of my Grandma and Grandpa's wedding, then them at their 50th anniversary. I also have the large prints of my parents wedding.
Music -- don't know, wasn't there, don't care -- Grandma and Grandpa might have though...
As to the video for DJs, I can't stress that enough. And I don't mean the VLogs (those are for our consumption). If a customer can watch you intro a bridal party, do some traditional wedding/party stuff, etc., then you can book them without all kinds of meetings, and time wasters.
Simple enough to do -- grab a Flip or other camcorder, put it pointing at you, and let her rip. Edit it to a nice promo, and you've got gold in your hands
Clients are not looking to see pics/videos of full dance floors -- they want to know what you look like, your mannerisms, your vocals, etc. You could be the best DJ in the world, but if you do not fit their needs/looks/mannerisms/voice, yer either not gonna get the gig, or you will disappoint them...
Unless you are a multi-op, you are selling yourself -- not a packed dance floor. The only people that care if the dance floor is always packed -- are DJs.
I wish I had had the internet, and all the technology available today, when I was in my heyday -- I'd milk it for all it was worth...
I do video editing for just this type of thing. I had a dvd like you are describing. I need a new one. But there are people out there that will do it for you.
Mike
Mike
I would beg to differ. I think far too many of us OVERVALUE what we do, offer, etc. It's because of that that these individuals find themselves constantly trying to justify pricing that is subjective rather than objective and isn't based on tangibles, and find themselves whimpering at others who are able to do the same job or better for less simply because they don't base their prices on subjectivity or whim.
THAT is the problem all around - not that some dj's (haven't found one yet though) suffer from some kind of "inferiority complex." LOL
K
Kirby Ball
Guest
Let me "chime" in on a few things. Like any "service" provider there are many levels of experience and quality that has to be considered. Since Coreen and I provide both services I can see both sides of the fence so to speak. I'm not claiming to be an expert by any means but I believe that I can offer a few insights.
There is more to the photography part of our business than just showing up and pointing a camera. There is a lot of pre-planning of poses, logistics, time-lines, finding out about the family dynamics (like don't put Uncle Joe in any picture with Uncle Bob or there might be WWIII breaking out, etc.), helping people who have never worn formal wear get dressed properly, scrambling the schedule when people or flowers fail to show up on time, just to name a few things that we run into.
We also provide engagement photo shoots for many our clients months ahead of their wedding, which timewise is usually in addition to the meetings we have when we hammer out the details.
I can't speak for other photographers, but we normally start our day with the Bride early in the morning (at the beauty parlor) many times at 7:00 am and are with them until the last dance (if they hire us for music also) which has been as late as 1:00 am many times.
We as DJs often complain about lining up the wedding party...big whoop. Try dealing with a bridal party and families for hours while taking photos before and after the wedding. I've watched Coreen do this over the last few years and it takes a very special person to herd the sometimes unruly and uncooperative subjects that need to be in said photographs.
Many times we have to go on location with the Bride & Groom (sometimes the Bridal Party) to get those special outdoor requests from our clients fulfilled.
After all the pics are done, the editing process begins. Coreen does most of the editing (I'm slowly working my way into this process.) and she reviews every single image that we have shot. Some weddings can have over 2,000 images to review, crop, edit, etc. Even with numerous editing programs used (Photoshop & Lightroom predominately) the process is not a speedy one due to the sheer number of images to deal with.
The pics that eventually will be printed are uploaded to an out of state photo processor/printer. When the photos are received they are placed in a book and usually hand delivered to the client.
Don't forget equipment. I'm guessing that we have around $10,000 invested on the photography end of things.
I can guarantee that I am more wore out physically and mentally when doing photographs moreso than when just doing the music.
We often forget that many people work very hard at what they do to provide their respective services for their clients while others do as little as possible.
Our goal is to provide the best service that we possibly can, whether it be photography or DJ services for our clients and to work with all the other vendors in a professional and responsible way.
Yes, we gross a lot more money for photography but we also put in a lot of time and effort for our clients.
YMMV
There is more to the photography part of our business than just showing up and pointing a camera. There is a lot of pre-planning of poses, logistics, time-lines, finding out about the family dynamics (like don't put Uncle Joe in any picture with Uncle Bob or there might be WWIII breaking out, etc.), helping people who have never worn formal wear get dressed properly, scrambling the schedule when people or flowers fail to show up on time, just to name a few things that we run into.
We also provide engagement photo shoots for many our clients months ahead of their wedding, which timewise is usually in addition to the meetings we have when we hammer out the details.
I can't speak for other photographers, but we normally start our day with the Bride early in the morning (at the beauty parlor) many times at 7:00 am and are with them until the last dance (if they hire us for music also) which has been as late as 1:00 am many times.
We as DJs often complain about lining up the wedding party...big whoop. Try dealing with a bridal party and families for hours while taking photos before and after the wedding. I've watched Coreen do this over the last few years and it takes a very special person to herd the sometimes unruly and uncooperative subjects that need to be in said photographs.
Many times we have to go on location with the Bride & Groom (sometimes the Bridal Party) to get those special outdoor requests from our clients fulfilled.
After all the pics are done, the editing process begins. Coreen does most of the editing (I'm slowly working my way into this process.) and she reviews every single image that we have shot. Some weddings can have over 2,000 images to review, crop, edit, etc. Even with numerous editing programs used (Photoshop & Lightroom predominately) the process is not a speedy one due to the sheer number of images to deal with.
The pics that eventually will be printed are uploaded to an out of state photo processor/printer. When the photos are received they are placed in a book and usually hand delivered to the client.
Don't forget equipment. I'm guessing that we have around $10,000 invested on the photography end of things.
I can guarantee that I am more wore out physically and mentally when doing photographs moreso than when just doing the music.
We often forget that many people work very hard at what they do to provide their respective services for their clients while others do as little as possible.
Our goal is to provide the best service that we possibly can, whether it be photography or DJ services for our clients and to work with all the other vendors in a professional and responsible way.
Yes, we gross a lot more money for photography but we also put in a lot of time and effort for our clients.
YMMV
It should never be a matter of "us vs. them" because there is nothing CLOSE to apples vs. apples in that comparison. We are very fortunate to have Kirby here with us (and Mike for similar reasons) so we can gain a much needed insight into their worlds and remind ourselves every now and then that the view "from behind the booth" isn't the only one out there!
G
Guest
Guest
My wife has one camera system (which she won't even let me look at must less touch) which had a cost of over $20,000 for the complete setup including backs, lens, boards, flashes etc.
When she does a set of pics she may shoot as many 2 to 3 hundred shots and may be in the dark room for 10 to 12 hours and she is not even a professional photog!
She also has a digital camera that cost more than most DJs have in their DJ systems!
All in all between large, medium, 35mm and digital formats she owns 11 cameras! She still isn't a professional photog!
Yes today most pics are done on the computer and then printed out, but price one of the printers for photography work that does up to 24 inch stuff and tell me it is cheap and easy! Prices for a decent one start at around $5000 and go on up to the $25000 range, add in what the ink cost and you will find it isn't cheap to operate either. Although more time consuming burning it in the darkroom is a lot cheaper!
There is also a little thing called creative talent, it has a whole lot more to do with photography than pushing the little button! And a lot more is involved than in DJing a party!
When she does a set of pics she may shoot as many 2 to 3 hundred shots and may be in the dark room for 10 to 12 hours and she is not even a professional photog!
She also has a digital camera that cost more than most DJs have in their DJ systems!
All in all between large, medium, 35mm and digital formats she owns 11 cameras! She still isn't a professional photog!
Yes today most pics are done on the computer and then printed out, but price one of the printers for photography work that does up to 24 inch stuff and tell me it is cheap and easy! Prices for a decent one start at around $5000 and go on up to the $25000 range, add in what the ink cost and you will find it isn't cheap to operate either. Although more time consuming burning it in the darkroom is a lot cheaper!
There is also a little thing called creative talent, it has a whole lot more to do with photography than pushing the little button! And a lot more is involved than in DJing a party!
Without saying too much..and I will keep this short and to the point.
It all comes down to comfort of your own checkbook.
If you can afford a $2000 dj...then do it, if that's who you want.
If you can afford the $3000 photographer....then do it, if that's who you want.
Did you see how I finished those statements?
"Then do it, if that's who you want"
Thats exactly my point. If you really like a service, you will be willing to pay got that service, IF YOU HAVE THE MONEY, right?
In my area we have a lot of budget shoppers, which is fantastic! So now with my prices, I am finally starting to see people question my prices...at first I was worried...now I am not.
If they want my services, I know exactly what I offer, and if they don't have the money, or they can find someone cheaper, this is A-OK.
I want someone to hire me not because of my price, I want them to hire me because they are 100% confident I am the right guy for their event.
Any person can get a camera and take pictures, right?
MUCH LIKE.......
Any person can buy equipment and push play, right?
Some people can compromise where they can save money, whether its hiring a family member/friend to "just" play music, or "just" take pictures.
It all comes down to, do you fit the scheme for the night?
Whether is because they got to have you as part of the event, or your price is right, and you just happen to fit the bill. (Pun intended)
People are price shoppers, bottom line, and certain individuals will do whatever it takes to save a buck, whether it's having a "mock" cake, a cheap dj, an unprofessional photographer, no decorations..you get the pic. People just do what they feel is right for their special event.
It all comes down to comfort of your own checkbook.
If you can afford a $2000 dj...then do it, if that's who you want.
If you can afford the $3000 photographer....then do it, if that's who you want.
Did you see how I finished those statements?
"Then do it, if that's who you want"
Thats exactly my point. If you really like a service, you will be willing to pay got that service, IF YOU HAVE THE MONEY, right?
In my area we have a lot of budget shoppers, which is fantastic! So now with my prices, I am finally starting to see people question my prices...at first I was worried...now I am not.
If they want my services, I know exactly what I offer, and if they don't have the money, or they can find someone cheaper, this is A-OK.
I want someone to hire me not because of my price, I want them to hire me because they are 100% confident I am the right guy for their event.
Any person can get a camera and take pictures, right?
MUCH LIKE.......
Any person can buy equipment and push play, right?
Some people can compromise where they can save money, whether its hiring a family member/friend to "just" play music, or "just" take pictures.
It all comes down to, do you fit the scheme for the night?
Whether is because they got to have you as part of the event, or your price is right, and you just happen to fit the bill. (Pun intended)
People are price shoppers, bottom line, and certain individuals will do whatever it takes to save a buck, whether it's having a "mock" cake, a cheap dj, an unprofessional photographer, no decorations..you get the pic. People just do what they feel is right for their special event.
I think this is the implied "value" of photog's over DJ's....
I see it every day in radio advertising.
Clients feel a newspaper or magazine ad is "worth" more...
since it's something they can feel and touch and take home.
With Photogs, you are paying for artistic talent. That's not to say that DJs aren't also artistic as well, however that's more a debate amongst us. With photogs it is much more evident and tangible. Especially in a market like this (metro NYC), there are photographers and then there are PHOTOGRAPHERS. The difference is very clear, the talent is very clear, the value is very clear.