It's going down...

Proformance said:

I'm still getting a contradiction in your message Stu.

By your description, it seems that the "other DJs" spotted the changing needs in the customer field, and you were just late to identify the needed adjustments of scale.

I'll admit there is a shrinking in the over-all need for DJs, while at the same time there is an expansion of the number of "DJ capable" people.

On another of your points, you mention that we are selling "ourselves" rather than equipment. I think there is also a scale at work here too.

How different are you from the people you serve? Can your clients put together coherent sentences? Can they give basic instructions to a group of friends, relatives, or co-workers? Did they come up with a list of requests they like? Have they ever used a computer or loaded a CD player?

The point I'm making is that all of your clients have lives and jobs of their own - and most of the skills we use to DJ are used by all manner of people in many other fields of endeavor. The most basic concern of most customer's is whether we are capable and not necessarily oustanding.

As for gear, it is still an important part of gettig hired since obviously not everyone is walking around with 1000's of watts of amplification equipment. Again, customers want to know your capability.

Then, did customers ask if you had LED's and the Cortex? I always ask myself before makig an upgrade "am I doing this for a real customer or just to satisfy my self image" ? That question has saved me many thousands of dollars over the years and made the work much more profitable.



Not really, because the economic realities affect all businesses across the board. When it comes to gear I was thinking more in terms of the gap between typical DJ gear and what is in the majority of people's living rooms.

Think not so much about the gear getting cheaper - but more like the cheaper gear is gaining more capability.

Thus, the downward pressure on pricing comes because the gap between the capability you bring to their event; vesus the capability they already have in their home or office is significantly smaller than it used to be. Now, where the customer is not so different from yourself - that could even include MC skills.

The better paying clients are often people who are delegating a responsibility, rather than those filling a need. So when it comes to the average wedding market "needs" often dictate "economy."

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I'm not sure where you see a "contradiction" in what I've posted. I was indeed late in spotting the fact that the other DJs in my market had lowered their rates. In a way, I had let the old paradigm blind me. I was still in the "getting what you're worth" mindset -- which is fine, by the way, and still my goal -- but I missed the reality of how my colleagues responded to our dire economic conditions. Again, we've always had the rate slashers and lowballers, but we survived them because we're generally better entertainers. It's when the better entertainers start to acquiesce that the fun starts!

Since the first DJ appeared, people have said, "Anyone can do that!" How many of US became DJs because we saw one and said, "Hell, I can do that -- maybe even better!" I'm reminded of the old Dire Straits song: "That ain't workin' -- that's the way ya do it. Get your money for nothing and your chicks for free." As a former drummer, everyone thought they could do THAT job, too.

Yet the difference between the verbally gifted audiophile with the nice home stereo and me is that I pursue DJing full time. While he / she is at their day job doing whatever, I'm working on my business. I do far more public speaking and listen to far more music. I know much more music history and I know a hell of a lot about equipment -- not because of any innate gift, but because I spend my 40+ hours a week practicing my craft while they work in their cubicle, machine shop, dentist office or whatever.

And before I blunder into another minefield here, NO, I am NOT slamming the part-timers. If the economy keeps sucking here, I just might end up among their number sometime soon! Yet even they come home from their day jobs and put in far more time than most non-DJs. Again, they generally do far more public speaking. It's no lie when Mark Ferrell points out that public speaking is the biggest fear among the general public! We routinely do something that the vast majority dreads! And those of us who actually ENJOY it set ourselves apart. So I'm not totally different from everyone -- just the vast majority! If we're not selling ourselves, then what?

Look at the recent big news about Bob Barker. Did he string together coherent sentences? Don't other people have great personalities or a sense of humor? Sure they do! But there's only one Bob. This is why everyone is in an uproar about who will replace him. Now I'm sure they'll find someone. Leno took over for Carson and the Tonight Show survives. (Yet he's no Carson, is he?) One thing is certain, though: the show WILL be different!

This is what makes my show different from yours and vice-versa. We might use the same gear, or maybe we both have massive libraries. So why would someone pass ME over to hire YOU? What is your edge? As you point out, my customers don't care if I'm playing music via a Cortex, a CD player or even spinning vinyl. They want entertainment. The Cortex simply helps me deliver that entertainment more efficiently. (It also saves wear and tear on the ever aging DJ!)

There are indeed certain trends, especially in the wedding industry. At our last ADJA meeting, many DJs described the amount of brides looking for lighting beyond the dance floor. The current trend is to "paint" rooms with light -- to decorate using lighting -- and DJs are incorporating this into their shows, both to expand what they have to offer AND to be able to coordinate ALL the room lighting with their show. (If a private contractor is hired to do said lighting, then it may clash or even render certain effects non-usable! Think about those halls where they don't dim the lights and your strobe is useless.) Trends aside, replacing heavy PAR cans with LED lights again lightens our load, allowing us to provide a better show more efficiently.

You DO have one great point I'd like to comment on: profitability. As DJ / businessmen, we must THINK before plunking down our bucks on new gear and effects! We must ask the tough questions: Who is this for -- my clients or myself? Will it make me more money? Will this increase or reduce my efficiency? Face it -- we buy a LOT of crap because it's COOL. But unless it will increase our income, demand, capability or efficiency, it's simply a waste of money. Don't buy things just to impress your DJ pals.

gee not to mention because of better equipment would a brain surgeon today expect less pay since of course his job is much easier.

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That's a horrible example because better equipment doesn't make it easier for anyone to do brain surgery - it just lowers the mortality rate of those lying on the table.

A lower death rate (higher success rate) obviously creates a bigger demand and makes the surgery more valuable.

Since the first DJ appeared, people have said, "Anyone can do that!"

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Are they correct?

Essentially, they are. Some will be better than others and better/weaker at certain individual skills - but it's a lot like roller skating; with enough practice anyone can do it.

One of the primary things that differentiates people is whether or not they enjoy it and want to do it. That sort of sets the level your going to take it too right there.

I always think the Bob Barker/Johnny Carson analogies are mute because while talent is important, the role of DJ is not so heavily rooted in "entertainment" talent. Even the best DJ "Entertainers" among us are helping people to entertain themselves - rather than directly entertaining them.

Bob Barker also could have retired 20 years ago, but he didn't - so part of the uproar is the longevity of his tenure in a highly visible job, not simply his knack for the job. That game show has only one host at a time, while every day there are thousands of DJs all across the country performing the same duties.

What you bring in "entertainment" talent to your business plan has to balance with the other skills you possess and the ratio of skills that a given target client is looking for.

Dancers make good emcees for example, because they bring that talent to the role, but good emcees are often weak DJs. So you have to position your stengths and weaknesses - thus what you sell - to the correct target client.

PS: about the "public speaking" thing.

It is a big fear, but fear and ability are not mutually exclusive.

Weddings and parties are not the only places people speak publicly. Right now there are some very nervous and very relaxed people making presentations in corporate boardrooms, reporting at company meetings, students reporting in classrooms, teachers giving lessons, salespeople making their pitch, ministers preaching, and family giving toasts or eulogies.

The world is full of scared but practiced speakers.

There is a big difference between ability to do something, and capability to do it right!

I own a hammer, saw, level, etc. Know how to use them properly and effectivly.

Yet, it would be unwise for me to build a house.

Yes, anyone can push play on a cd player, or hit "enter" to play a song on a computer. Yes they can talk. Maybe ...

Does not mean anyone can dj...right!

Does not mean anyone can dj...*right!*

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Are we using your definition of "right" or the subjective and widely variable expectations of any one or more buyers?

So if a higher success rate equates to a bigger demand...

Does that mean that the lower demand for MDJs in general being is created by MDJs with an inferior success rate?

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You wish!

Not at all. Doing something "right" doesn't mean it will be a success, and conversely you can have great success even when things aren't quite "right".

Is it really instructive anyway to compare DJs with surgeons? When was the last time a 3rd party insurer required a referral from your primary care DJ? Have you ever had to induce a medical coma to work with your client?

Is that a part of the "backend principle"?

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Is this one of your coined terms for ideas that afront your rhetoric? The only backend principle I'm aware of has Ice Cube on main vocals! You can do it put your ......

It ain't going down... everything else is coming up! There's a limit to how far you can take the act of DJ/MC within the confines of any particular event type. You have only so much beach to work with. As the tide of common resources rises around you - your stature on the beach gets smaller.

How bout you just write a book.

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You mean for DJs right?

There's no money in selling anything to DJs except: ____________, ______________, and ________________.


I'll give you a free coffee maker if you can get all three!

Stu shares point blank 1st person accounts with you...and you have the arrogance to tell him that he's wrong?

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I never told him he was wrong. I challenged him to look at things from a different perspective. He seems mature enough to understand that, whether he agrees with the point or not.

You Dude, are wrong when you take 1 person examples and apply them as the basis for your general rules. You are wrong when you pan the internet for unrelated numbers to support your bias and call it a conclusion.

Stu, the contradiction is that you admit brides were looking for lower prices, yet you blamed other DJs for the price pressure you were feeling.

In my opinion, the other DJs didn't do anything except mind their own store. Your beef is with the bride not the guy who was quicker to spot the problem.

You still seem to be implying that had it not been for the "other DJs" the bride would still want to pay more money. That just doesn't seem likely.

Willing buyer - willing seller, that's all it takes. Before I draw a line in the sand I have to ask myself - am I holding out for my profit or just an arbitrary price? It's much the same principle as when you buy that piece of gear you want but don't actually need.

I don't adjust the price. I adjust what I sell, which often results in a different price.

Can I see that conclusion graphed?

Proformance said:

I never told him he was wrong. I challenged him to look at things from a different perspective. He seems mature enough to understand that, whether he agrees with the point or not.

You Dude, are wrong when you take 1 person examples and apply them as the basis for your general rules. You are wrong when you pan the internet for unrelated numbers to support your bias and call it a conclusion.

Stu, the contradiction is that you admit brides were looking for lower prices, yet you blamed other DJs for the price pressure you were feeling.

In my opinion, the other DJs didn't do anything except mind their own store. Your beef is with the bride not the guy who was quicker to spot the problem.

You still seem to be implying that had it not been for the "other DJs" the bride would still want to pay more money. That just doesn't seem likely.

Willing buyer - willing seller, that's all it takes. Before I draw a line in the sand I have to ask myself - am I holding out for my profit or just an arbitrary price? It's much the same principle as when you buy that piece of gear you want but don't actually need.

I don't adjust the price. I adjust what I sell, which often results in a different price.

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Okay, I see your point. I missed it only because I made the assumption that you were familiar with Mark Ferrell's "Worth" principles which are, in fact, based on business principles. (And forgive me if you are and simply forgot or have rejected them. Again, I don't want to come off the wrong way.)

The reason why I blame the other DJs is because we, as an industry, set the status quo. It's true. Look at Bose. Ever get a great deal on Bose stuff outside of buying it used? Not likely. They have very tight price controls and will actually cut off any supplier that sells below their MSRP. THEY set the status quo. Of course, they have also marketed in such a way as to set themselves apart -- the other half of the equation. But let's not distract ourselves too much with the analogy...

Again, it's not "the guy" who "recognized" the problem sooner... it's the MASS of DJs who panicked and broke ranks. It's the people who mark success by the blocked-out dates on their calendars instead of the amount of money they're earning as opposed to what they're spending each month. It's the DJ who loves to perform (as we all do, I'm sure), but loses sight of the bottom line and actually ends up subsidizing the expenses of a bride's reception for the "privilege" of just BEING there.

"Profit," for many, has become a dirty word, and I'm damned well stumped as to why. It's what we LIVE on. If you work for a company during the day that doesn't turn a healthy profit, you won't have a job soon. If you're a full-time DJ, you NEED profit, and not just a token one. We need to pay our own health insurance, liability and equipment insurance, self-employment taxes (the way government punishes entrepreneurs), AND put something away for retirement along with keeping the bills paid and having any kind of life beyond the basics. In order to do that, we must know our income, outgo and have a business plan.

Yet I know more than a few DJs who have done none of this. They put all kinds of time into their business, yet don't consider it "work time." It's all uncompensated. It's a hobby. They will bid on jobs just to land 'em, not thinking about the time they've invested. If they saw it all on paper, they'd be able to make more money working at 7-eleven. If they have a day job, the impact is even less obvious, because they don't feel a pinch. They're literally subsidizing other people's parties, and the bill won't really come due until they retire and wonder why the money is so tight.

We've seen the devastation in other industries where rogue dealers or entities break ranks and set a new low. Look at the whole home mortgage business. It used to be rock solid. Now it's just a mess. All it took is for a block of companies to break ranks and gobble up enough business to force the others to either do the same or drop out. And they did.

So while my beef is more with my state's economic picture than anything else, I DO have a legitimate beef with a great many of my colleagues. I even understand the fear that made them break ranks, and the emotions that made others do so. I've felt all of those myself. But to cop a line from Dr. Phil: how's it workin' for ya? If things don't turn around soon, there are gonna be a whole lot more ex-DJs here in Michigan. I sincerely hope I'm not one of 'em.

Stu, that needs more than just a thanks.

One of the best posts I seen. Exellent!

Flyingdjdan said:

Stu, that needs more than just a thanks.

One of the best posts I seen. Exellent!

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Thanks, Dan! Great way to start my morning!

Stu,

I am familiar with Ferrell's message in ALL it's permutations, and the original source ideas from which he drew them.

Unfortunately, you and many people are still trapped in his mistaken step of letting his original point develop into a call to faith for price fixing.

.. it's the MASS of DJs who panicked and broke ranks.

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You repeat this theme with multiple variations throughout your post.
You are demanding that other people respect your idea of what a DJ should be, and how he should be priced.

You also complain that the hobbyist doesn't run his show like a business - well duh? What part of "hobby" escaped you?

The reason why I blame the other DJs is because we as an industry, set the status quo. It's true.

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Clearly it isn't true, or you wouldn't be so peeved about everyone else's business.

You as a DJ set the status for your company alone.

The customer's balance out the industry as they vote with their feet and their wallet. If you are too high or too low for what they expect they go somewhere else. Yes, I also said too low. People are smart enough to know when your price indicates you don't have the required skills to meet their demands. Too high means you expect to sell more than they care to buy.

Look at Bose. They have very tight price controls and will actually cut off any supplier that sells below their MSRP. THEY set the status quo.

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Bose is NOT an industry. It is one company that chose direct marketing as the primary way to sell it products. (The strict price controls prevent Bose from having to compete directly with it's own dealers.)

Ever get a great deal on Bose stuff outside of buying it used? Not likely.

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Personally I'm among that group of people that has never liked Bose equipment, so "great deal" would be a mute point for me. (But, that's a side issue.)

Do I reject the idea of charging an appropriate fee for your services? Of course not. But that is not the message you are delivering.