I think you can get equipment fast if you really need it. I had my Bose L1s and B1s in less than 24 hrs after I placed the order, and this is their standard shipping time.
Is there an industry that demands more from it's clients then the DJ industry?
- Thread starter Steve LeBlanc
- Start date
I think you can get equipment fast if you really need it. I had my Bose L1s and B1s in less than 24 hrs after I placed the order, and this is their standard shipping time.
DJ Dennis : Willful is one of those ambiguous words that will get your a$$ in a jam every time.
Who determines what is willful?
You say it was, they say it wasn't. Now what? You start bickering over a word and the original broken whatever still hasn't been addressed. Kinda like DJs banter with the word professional. Ambiguous therefore has no place in a contract that's supposed to be black and white. No shades of gray!
Dump the word entirely. They break it, doesn't matter why or how, and they buy it...period (or find a compromise but YOU are holding all the aces).
Who determines what is willful?
You say it was, they say it wasn't. Now what? You start bickering over a word and the original broken whatever still hasn't been addressed. Kinda like DJs banter with the word professional. Ambiguous therefore has no place in a contract that's supposed to be black and white. No shades of gray!
Dump the word entirely. They break it, doesn't matter why or how, and they buy it...period (or find a compromise but YOU are holding all the aces).
G
Guest
Guest
Steve:
You started the topic and have been called out. May we see your contract? I cannot speak for anyone else, but if, in return, you'd like to see mine, I'll post it, and we can both discuss, specifically, whatever it is you'd like to about contracts.
If a client, or prospective client, has problem(s) with my contract, they're welcome to 1) discuss and negotiate it with me, or 2) hire someone else.
A couple other points, if I may:
I don't budget for new microphones and/or speaker stands every week.
You won't find 80 "lay people" on this site to poll about anyone's contract.
You started the topic and have been called out. May we see your contract? I cannot speak for anyone else, but if, in return, you'd like to see mine, I'll post it, and we can both discuss, specifically, whatever it is you'd like to about contracts.
If a client, or prospective client, has problem(s) with my contract, they're welcome to 1) discuss and negotiate it with me, or 2) hire someone else.
A couple other points, if I may:
I don't budget for new microphones and/or speaker stands every week.
You won't find 80 "lay people" on this site to poll about anyone's contract.
Mike:
Not any more! Nor is it free any more. You happen to have had a good insider connection, but he's not any more there either.
DjDennis
RIP- My Dad (2011), Sister (2013) and Mum (2017)
Thanks Cap - According to what the original lawyer drew up thats waht worked way back in 1980 or so
i'll get them to re-look at it again and see what they say
thanks again
i'll get them to re-look at it again and see what they say
thanks again
That's just great if you have an extra five grand you have nothing to do with but I would suspect most on this board and in the DJ industry in general can do that...
I have an account that can replace gear if I damage it or it wears out and it will get me through. I also have a lot of backup gear I could certinaly get by on but regardless of that I shouldn't have to worry about that when someone else destroys my gear.
Just for a laugh go to Musicstop tomorrow and take a wireless mic and toss it across the room and see who has to pay for it...Betcha it's you. I don't see them seeing that as a cost of doing business
Jeff - I'm not arguing that someone isn't responsible..why is it the client and not the ass that broke the mic?
If you dropped the mic accidentally, I bet Long and McQuade don't bill you.....
Please go back and read the original title and comment on that:
Is there an industry that demands more from it's clients then the DJ industry?
This isn't so much about what's contained in our contracts versus what we, as an industry demand....and whether there is an impact....
Don't post the contracts; like everything else, it's likely a trade secret....
My contract is a mishmash of different contracts; it wasn't reviewed by a lawyer. I simply felt I needed to have one to deal with the basic issues....
Some of you get so wound up...so defensive when "challenged". I'm not accusing or pointing the fingers at any one. All I'm asking is for some discussion on the question posed for which a few have been so gracious to comment on rather than get their panties in a wad.....
A DJ offers that he will do outdoor events, but then demands the client to provide shelter and a host of other conditions attached to that (if it's too humid, my laptops won't work, so I can bail on the event. If it's too windy I need shelter on all sides...and so on).
If you're not prepared to do outside work and deal with the possible issues...don't do them. Why offer then put umpteen conditions....
We sign a contract, I get the retainer then decide I don't like you and I bail.....I lose nothing; the client doesn't like you and bails; he loses his retainer.
Steve S. - My contract likely isn't worth the paper it's typed on......Look at your contract. How much verbiage is designed to benefit you. How much benefits the client...and if the former is more prevalent......could this be an issue with clients and their perceptions of us......
Yes, I did start the topic....should have known better...
Again...Bagel or Donuts?
Dan feel free to close this, as once again , it's gotten way off track.
You try to get some serious thinking going and and this is what you get
If you dropped the mic accidentally, I bet Long and McQuade don't bill you.....
Please go back and read the original title and comment on that:
Is there an industry that demands more from it's clients then the DJ industry?
This isn't so much about what's contained in our contracts versus what we, as an industry demand....and whether there is an impact....
Don't post the contracts; like everything else, it's likely a trade secret....
My contract is a mishmash of different contracts; it wasn't reviewed by a lawyer. I simply felt I needed to have one to deal with the basic issues....
Some of you get so wound up...so defensive when "challenged". I'm not accusing or pointing the fingers at any one. All I'm asking is for some discussion on the question posed for which a few have been so gracious to comment on rather than get their panties in a wad.....
A DJ offers that he will do outdoor events, but then demands the client to provide shelter and a host of other conditions attached to that (if it's too humid, my laptops won't work, so I can bail on the event. If it's too windy I need shelter on all sides...and so on).
If you're not prepared to do outside work and deal with the possible issues...don't do them. Why offer then put umpteen conditions....
We sign a contract, I get the retainer then decide I don't like you and I bail.....I lose nothing; the client doesn't like you and bails; he loses his retainer.
Steve S. - My contract likely isn't worth the paper it's typed on......Look at your contract. How much verbiage is designed to benefit you. How much benefits the client...and if the former is more prevalent......could this be an issue with clients and their perceptions of us......
Yes, I did start the topic....should have known better...
Again...Bagel or Donuts?
Dan feel free to close this, as once again , it's gotten way off track.
You try to get some serious thinking going and and this is what you get
thatmusicguy
But what you are missing that is different is the client called me because the client wants me. Sure, and here's what I need from you, Madam/Mister Client, to completely fulfill your expectations of me (and some Madam/Mister Client, you haven't even though of).
Because I've consciously decided not to be a part of twenty bidders in the dog pit, I have the luxury of setting my own criteria as opposed to those in the pit or the market setting the minimum standards and demands.
"Hello, my name is Julie, and I'm having a tent wedding. Are you available?"
"I might be Julie, but first let's talk about your tent, what you have in mind for its inside design, and then I can better say "Yes" or "No"."
Even if I don't get the work because my requirements are not going to be met, the client will have a better idea what to ask in her next call.
I would 100% agree with you if I were one of twenty DJs in a competitive bid situation.
But what you are missing that is different is the client called me because the client wants me. Sure, and here's what I need from you, Madam/Mister Client, to completely fulfill your expectations of me (and some Madam/Mister Client, you haven't even though of).
Because I've consciously decided not to be a part of twenty bidders in the dog pit, I have the luxury of setting my own criteria as opposed to those in the pit or the market setting the minimum standards and demands.
"Hello, my name is Julie, and I'm having a tent wedding. Are you available?"
"I might be Julie, but first let's talk about your tent, what you have in mind for its inside design, and then I can better say "Yes" or "No"."
Even if I don't get the work because my requirements are not going to be met, the client will have a better idea what to ask in her next call.
Isn't that a bit unfair, to challenge without any personal expertise or seemingly any desire to obtaining it before criticizing?
If 15 of 20 make these demand does it affect the perception then?
Are you going to tell Julie on the day of the event........You know Julie; it's pretty hot today...The humidity may affect my laptops. If it does I may have to shut down.....Sorry but it's not my fault....see clause 67 (w) (xxii) part 7 G in the contract you signed..
I know, this scenario is exaggerated (or is it?)......But do we drive people to the "dark side" because sometimes we're just too concerned about us and not them.....?
Are you going to tell Julie on the day of the event........You know Julie; it's pretty hot today...The humidity may affect my laptops. If it does I may have to shut down.....Sorry but it's not my fault....see clause 67 (w) (xxii) part 7 G in the contract you signed..
I know, this scenario is exaggerated (or is it?)......But do we drive people to the "dark side" because sometimes we're just too concerned about us and not them.....?
G
Guest
Guest
You're really grapsing at straws here, Steve.
"15 of 20"... where are you getting this statistic?
I have no humidity clause in my contract, at all, nevermind one that guarantees that I get paid, regardless of if I deliver or not. Who does? What or who are you actually complaining about?
Yes, I believe most of this thread is much ado about nothing, unless you're looking for an actual examination of specific contracts and language, which you've declined to participate in.
What IS the "dark side", Steve? Is it posting "hit and run" questions, like Cesar used to do?
Steve - I'm just trying to bring forth some discussion on a topic I though warranted some discussion....you know sorta like taking about whether Sarah Palin is hot or commenting at the hot chicks at a foam party, but on a level maybe that's germain to this board and what we do, but I guess I expected too much.
Think about it Steve...Everybody gripes about the bottom feeders, hobbyists, part timers and how they're stealing that business. Yes, some of them may be crappy businessmen and dj's; many of them aren't and many I suspect...i know are flourishing quite well.
Could it be that when you call them and say I have a wedding for 4 hours I want a DJ they say: "that'll be $800.00; when's the date; I'll be there"....versus; " I require a deposit that's non refundable, I have this 4 page contract that's full of conditions, if it's outdoor I require the perfect shelter, but if it gets too humid, I may have to quit. i require platforms for my speakers......and so on.....Could the customer simply be scratching his head going; "all I wanted was someone to play music for 4 hours? And then call the other guy?
Could this mindset be impacting our industry...or not....That's the question I asked?
Sorry if I offended your sensibilities.....Let's talk about hot chicks and booze...is that better?
I'm just putting forth a test in self examination I guess. Isn't that an exercise that might make us better in the long run. What's wrong with discussing hypothetical......several in the thread have....
If you don't like my post......don't participate
Dan or any other mod - Close this please....
Think about it Steve...Everybody gripes about the bottom feeders, hobbyists, part timers and how they're stealing that business. Yes, some of them may be crappy businessmen and dj's; many of them aren't and many I suspect...i know are flourishing quite well.
Could it be that when you call them and say I have a wedding for 4 hours I want a DJ they say: "that'll be $800.00; when's the date; I'll be there"....versus; " I require a deposit that's non refundable, I have this 4 page contract that's full of conditions, if it's outdoor I require the perfect shelter, but if it gets too humid, I may have to quit. i require platforms for my speakers......and so on.....Could the customer simply be scratching his head going; "all I wanted was someone to play music for 4 hours? And then call the other guy?
Could this mindset be impacting our industry...or not....That's the question I asked?
Sorry if I offended your sensibilities.....Let's talk about hot chicks and booze...is that better?
I'm just putting forth a test in self examination I guess. Isn't that an exercise that might make us better in the long run. What's wrong with discussing hypothetical......several in the thread have....
If you don't like my post......don't participate
Dan or any other mod - Close this please....
G
Guest
Guest
I cannot speak for anyone else, but I generally don't participate in posts that I have no interest in. I've made no comment at all (here or elsewhere) about Sarah Palin, for example. It's also quite rare that I'll comment about "bottom feeders", because I find focusing on my business nets greater results than focusing on someone else's.
Before you accuse me of something else, I'd like to make it clear that I'm wearing no panties to even HAVE into a bunch. My problem with you Steve is, you're not willing to participate in your own post. Hypothetical is only of value if you don't have something BETTER to go by, IMO.
If you want to talk about contracts, and contractual clauses (and it seemed as though you did), fine... put yours up, and I'll put mine up, and we can throw ideas or donuts at each other, if you like.
My question is: if you don't really want to discuss something, specifically, why do you bring it up at all?
Before you accuse me of something else, I'd like to make it clear that I'm wearing no panties to even HAVE into a bunch. My problem with you Steve is, you're not willing to participate in your own post. Hypothetical is only of value if you don't have something BETTER to go by, IMO.
If you want to talk about contracts, and contractual clauses (and it seemed as though you did), fine... put yours up, and I'll put mine up, and we can throw ideas or donuts at each other, if you like.
My question is: if you don't really want to discuss something, specifically, why do you bring it up at all?
Steve - this really wasn't about specifics, just general discussion and frankly came from Mike's post and the discussion that the client should be held responsible for any damage to the DJ's equipment at an event.....
This sort of thing (contractual issues) is discussed all over on these boards....I'm asking if anyone thinks that how we present ourselves and what we ask impacts us, not whether your contract is better than mine....plain and simple....
This sort of thing (contractual issues) is discussed all over on these boards....I'm asking if anyone thinks that how we present ourselves and what we ask impacts us, not whether your contract is better than mine....plain and simple....
G
Guest
Guest
The only reason I'd even remotely be interested in "is your contract is better than mine?", is to find out how to improve mine, and maybe help you improve yours, both from a protection standpoint of BOTH parties (DJ and client), and possibly from a PR standpoint, since you seem to suggest there may be a problem there.
Your insistence on being vague and throwing about "possible" scenarios, versus looking specifically at anything at all surrounding your own topic has me very puzzled.
I know this thread has not gone how you expected, but please help me understand what you did expect.
Your insistence on being vague and throwing about "possible" scenarios, versus looking specifically at anything at all surrounding your own topic has me very puzzled.
I know this thread has not gone how you expected, but please help me understand what you did expect.
That's just it, if someone destroys my BOSE system they will be providing the 5K to replace it not me. But this also pertains to a $300 microphone, or a $1500 laptop. If they break it they pay for it, the question is how fast can I get a replacement when I get the money from the jerk that broke it. Now luckily I do have the capability to go out and replace my system with some cash reserves, until I do get the money back from the jerk if he drags his feet paying. Every company should have some amount of either emergency credit or cash reserves just for this reason. Even if you have insurance, that can take weeks to get paid off.
Because someone has to be responsible and you are not under contract with the guy the guy that broke the mic. The odds are I wouldn't go after the client. The odds are I would try and go after the guy that broke the gear iof I could even find out his name but in the end someone has to be responsible for my saftey and the saftey of my gear.
If it was an accident I probably wouldn't go after anyone...Accidents happen but if the mic is properly mounted in a stand and he chooses to take it out is it really an accident?
My contract is geared so that if someone comes swinging a baseball bat I am protected
Well I can tell you that my rental agreement is based on L&Ms rental agreement but with less terms and believe me they demand alot. The last time I rented a car the agreement was in very small print and a full page long. Basically I was responsible for everything that happened while the car was in my possesion and for the time it was back in thier posession until they got around to checking it. Same goes for hotel rooms and with the cars and hotel rooms they demand a deposit for damage. A $50.00 scratch just cost you $500 and they have no hesitation taking it. Read your insurance policy and see what they demand and guarantee.
I think the question is why should we demand less than other industries. I have a friend that is a videographer and my contract is very tame compared to his. I demand what I need he demands what he wants.
Contracts, to reasonable people, are really unimportant because they are reasonable people...They have common sense. it's the ones with no common sense that need to be contracted.
I have a section in my contract dealing with power requirements. It came in handy one night when I showed up in a field and the client firmly believed I could run off a car battery
You should never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers
G
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Guest
Very odd. I see Jeff quoting a post of Steve's, but I don't see Steve's post (the one being quoted)... did he delete it?
Fine... I'll address the original question: "is there an industry that demands more from it's clients then (should be than) the D.J. industry?"
Yes, there are many.
follow up "does it have an impact?"
Yes, it protects my livelihood, and the protects the client's event.
Before I eat my donut, please tell me what on earth you mean about "going to the dark side".
Fine... I'll address the original question: "is there an industry that demands more from it's clients then (should be than) the D.J. industry?"
Yes, there are many.
follow up "does it have an impact?"
Yes, it protects my livelihood, and the protects the client's event.
Before I eat my donut, please tell me what on earth you mean about "going to the dark side".