Bar & Club How much?!?!

spam4us said:

Wow thunder, is this sarcasm or are you serious?" If you are serious and believe that there would be zero expenses then you have created the perfect business model.

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OK let's look at it your way

Not taking the gig!

Music = $5 (because you still had to buy it anyway)

Insurance = $2 for the day (because you still have to pay for it anyway, you do have insurance right)

Car expenses = $0 (or is it? you still have to pay for your insurance, you still have to do oil changes etc., did you stay home or did you go somewhere anyway, if you went somewhere "not to work" did you illegally write that mileage off as a business expense @ .50 cents a mile?)

Wear and tear on the laptop = $3 (who are you kidding, the laptop being on making you money is no different than the laptop being on at your house not making money!)

As for the rest it stands as written! even at $250 to $500 for a bar or club gig the venue still buys my dinner and supplies what i want to drink!

If someone needs the money or exposure does the amount of money involved really justify staying at home or not?

If you aren't working do your expenses stop? ( I know mine don't, so any income is better than none, I would have loved to have had a $75 bring your laptop gig this past weekend as i lost four gigs for Friday, Saturday and Sunday and my wife lost her income for those three nights as well, due to 18"s of snow)

Music = $5 (because you still had to buy it anyway)
No, I would not be buying music if I didn't DJ/KJ. I spend about $85 per month. If you

lost four gigs for Friday, Saturday and Sunday

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and you usually do 4 gigs per weekend or 16 per month then 85/16 = $5.31 per gig.

$2 for insurance (you do have insurance don't you?) Already pay insurance regarless of taking the $75 gig so Insurance = $0
Would not need DJ/KJ business insurance if you didn't DJ/KJ so you would not already be paying for it. So Since I do DJ and put myself in a position of liability I do need insurance that I normally would not. My insurance runs about $350 per year. Divide that by your 16 gig average per month and it works out to about $1.82 per gig.

Lets say it take you 1 1/2 hours to get ready, travel to the gig, & go back home. So now the 6 hours becomes a total of 7 1/2. I am a man it takes me all of 15 minutes to get ready to go out!

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Read my post again. This includes getting ready (SSS), travel both to & from, set up, tear down. I think 1 1/2 hours is a safe estimate.

Car expenses = $0 (or is it? you still have to pay for your insurance, you still have to do oil changes etc., did you stay home or did you go somewhere anyway, if you went somewhere "not to work" did you illegally write that mileage off as a business expense @ .50 cents a mile?)
$15 car expenses....let's figure 30 miles round trip @ .50 cents per mile

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No, I do not "illegally" write off milage. Let's not go there. All is fully documented. If I did not have to travel to the gig then I would not have the expense. I believe the .50 cents is near the IRS amout you can deduct as an expense. so 30 miles times .50 cents per mile is still $15

Wear and tear on the laptop = $3 (who are you kidding, the laptop being on making you money is no different than the laptop being on at your house not making money!)

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My laptops are only used for business. They are only on at home for software updates, etc. and not for personal use.

All my laptops cost me less than $150 each and have long been paid for wear and tear = $0

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Mine cost about $1200 each (1200 x 2 = 2400) at the time plus the cost of the 3 external drives ($130 each or $390) and incidentals (case, spare cables,etc. $100) so if you add it up ($2890)and depreciate it over 5 years then didvide by 16 gigs per month I'm around $3 per gig.

If you aren't working do your expenses stop? ( I know mine don't, so any income is better than none,

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I agree here....Your expenses do not stop. If you lost 4 gigs this past weekend, your expense per gig has now just increased. So the $25 in expenses in the above example needs to spread into the furture gigs.

Seriously.... you'll go nuts breaking down every gig by the miniscule expenses you'd incure with or without that gig....

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I do not call tracking my expenses miniscule. I track what it cost me to stay in business because if I don't then I might be spending more than I make per show.

What if the bar paid you $25 and they only wanted you for 1 hour? Would you take the gig? Remember, in the above example, YOU are spending $25 to do the gig? Doesn't matter if it's for 1 hour or 10. Your expenses are the same for this one gig. Still interested?

BTW $75 divided by 5 hours is not $6.67/hour it's $15 dollars an hour

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BTW $75 - 25 = $50 /7.5 = $6.67 per hour. This is the equation. You need to subtract your expenses to figure out how much you really make per hour. This is your gross pay before taxes.

Now on top of all of this, you still need to pay your income taxes on that $6.67. Let's guess you pay 20% in income tax on this so you get to keep 80%. 80% of $6.67 is $5.34 Now if you take $5.34 times 7 1/2 hours your take home pay after your expenses is $40.05

Well, I must say you have it all figured out real good!

Now let's see if I can splain it!

"No, I would not be buying music if I didn't DJ/KJ. I spend about $85 per month." You DJ/KJ so you still purchase your music regarless of doing the $75 gig, so the expense is still there you just don't have the extra $75 to help defray the cost!

"and you usually do 4 gigs per weekend or 16 per month then 85/16 = $5.31 per gig." I wish I even had a clue as to what you are talking about here! I ussually do 5 to 7 gigs per week! and I would still be purchasing the music even if I only did one gig a week! so the $75 gig is just extra slush!

"Would not need DJ/KJ business insurance if you didn't DJ/KJ so you would not already be paying for it. So Since I do DJ and put myself in a position of liability" You lost me again here, since I already carry and pay for liability insurance regardless of the number of gigs I am doing, doing one more gig does not add to the cost of said insurance!

"Read my post again. This includes getting ready (SSS), travel both to & from, set up, tear down. I think 1 1/2 hours is a safe estimate." I did read it, I also read the origional item being discussed here. It is a bring your laptop gig there is no prep time, load in, tear down, load out, etc. at the most you are talking about travel time!

"Mine cost about $1200 each (1200 x 2 = 2400) at the time plus the cost of the 3 external drives ($130 each or $390) and incidentals (case, spare cables,etc. $100) so if you add it up ($2890)and depreciate it over 5 years then didvide by 16 gigs per month I'm around $3 per gig." I feel for you!

"I do not call tracking my expenses miniscule. I track what it cost me to stay in business because if I don't then I might be spending more than I make per show." I track my expenses too "by the month"

"What if the bar paid you $25 and they only wanted you for 1 hour? Would you take the gig? Remember, in the above example, YOU are spending $25 to do the gig? Doesn't matter if it's for 1 hour or 10. Your expenses are the same for this one gig. Still interested?" I have already stated I would not leave the house for less than $200 but said that if someone was hungry enough that $75 would be better than nothing!

"Now on top of all of this, you still need to pay your income taxes on that $6.67. Let's guess you pay 20% in income tax on this so you get to keep 80%. 80% of $6.67 is $5.34 Now if you take $5.34 times 7 1/2 hours your take home pay after your expenses is $40.05" Since you are breaking it down by the gig you need to understand that you wouldn't owe any income tax on $40.

As I see it, your costs are travel (IRS recommends 50 cents per mile) and labor.

On top of it all, 7.5 hours is a LONG LONG gig. Not sure I'd want to play that in a bar situation where you need to keep everything fresh. But it would be a great place to test new music knowing in that 7.5 hours you've have SOMEONE complaining to the bar staff about you - cant please everyone right?

PeteT said:

As I see it, your costs are travel (IRS recommends 50 cents per mile) and labor.

On top of it all, 7.5 hours is a LONG LONG gig. Not sure I'd want to play that in a bar situation where you need to keep everything fresh. But it would be a great place to test new music knowing in that 7.5 hours you've have SOMEONE complaining to the bar staff about you - cant please everyone right?

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Go read the original post.... no way this would end up being a 7.5 hour gig.... as posted it's 5 hours 10pm-3am.... add 15 minutes on either side for setup of a laptop and you've got what 5.5hours woopity-do-dah...

I could do that standing on my head.... plus no heavy equipment to setup and tear down.

Let me try to make this real simple.

According to you, you do 5 gigs per week (20 per month). Sometimes more but let's say 5.

Now, let's say you spend $85 per month for music.

$85 divided by 20 gigs per month is $4.25 per gig. Doesn't matter how much the gig pays. If you do 20 gigs per month, your music cost you $4.25 per gig.

Using my example, let's say you spend $350 per year for insurance.

$350 divided by 12 months is $29.16 per month for insurance.
$29.16 divided by 20 gigs per month is $1.46 per gig. Doesn't matter how much the gig pays. If you do 20 gigs per month, your insurance cost per gig is $1.46

30 miles round trip @ .50 cents per mile is $15. It cost you $15 to get to and from the gig and do the show. If you went somewhere else, then you would not have this expense for doing the show but since you are travelling to the gig, the expense for mileage is for the gig. It is a cost that you incurr.

Don't know where you live or how fast you drive but if I go 30 miles an hour, it will take me one hour total to get to and from the gig. This doesn't account for set up or tear down. Jokester said

add 15 minutes on either side for setup

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so he thinks about 1/2 hour total. 15 minutes for set up and 15 for tear down.

Now let's take the 1 hour travel, the 1/2 hour setup and tear down and add it to the 5 1/2 hours for the gig. SO 5 1/2 plus 1 1/2 = 7 hours total.

$75.00 Gig pays
- 4.25 for music
- 1.46 for insurance
- 15.00 for mileage
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$54.29 Gross pay for this gig
$54.29 divided by 7 hours = $7.76 per hour

Now if you are still with me, let try to average it out for the month.

You monthly expenses are:
$85.00 for music
$29.16 for insurance
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$114.16 total PLUS THE COST OF THE MILAGE TO GET TO EACH GIG. Let's say you average 30 miles for each gig you do. 30 times .50 cents per mile = $15.00 per gig.(average)

If you do just one gig that month, you will need to charge $129.16 just to break even. If you do 20 gigs that month, you still have the same fixed expense of $114.16 plus $15(average) for mileage to each gig.
So $114.16 fixed expense plus $300 mileage expense = $414.16 divided by 20 gigs is $20.71 total expenses per gig.
Now if the only thing you do is the $75 bar gig 20 times a month, your gross is $1500. Subtract the $414.16 in expenses and you made $1085.84 BEFORE INCOME TAXES. Take the $1085.84 times 12 months = $13030.08 per year BEFORE INCOME TAXES.

So based on this, the bar is pretty mush paying poverty level wages. If everyone would just learn to say no and name your price to the bar instaed of the bar naming the price to you, this profession might pay a living wage.

BTW I didn't include equipment(laptops, hardrives, cables, etc.) cost in this to keep it simple. If you include it, it would make your cost per gig even higher thereby reducing your gross profit per gig.

I DJ hockey here, regularly. Most of the teams I do, are basically $10 an hour. 2 hour games = $20 a game.

I live across the highway from the rink, im 14 years old, what else would I really be doing? Besides all the work at home, I show up, plug in my lappy, play some tunes, watch hockey, get paid.

Seems like a good deal to me. (I ovbiously know bars/sports are very different in most cases.)

Wow... just wow.... how the heck do you go from a simple laptop connection to this....??????????

You are adding to the scenerio what isn't there.... how do you know that the venue isn't just a block away from the DJ's home/office.... just where did all the extraneous BS in this post come from...

My Gawd!

spam4us said:

Let me try to make this real simple.

According to you, you do 5 gigs per week (20 per month). Sometimes more but let's say 5.

Now, let's say you spend $85 per month for music.

$85 divided by 20 gigs per month is $4.25 per gig. Doesn't matter how much the gig pays. If you do 20 gigs per month, your music cost you $4.25 per gig.

Using my example, let's say you spend $350 per year for insurance.

$350 divided by 12 months is $29.16 per month for insurance.
$29.16 divided by 20 gigs per month is $1.46 per gig. Doesn't matter how much the gig pays. If you do 20 gigs per month, your insurance cost per gig is $1.46

30 miles round trip @ .50 cents per mile is $15. It cost you $15 to get to and from the gig and do the show. If you went somewhere else, then you would not have this expense for doing the show but since you are travelling to the gig, the expense for mileage is for the gig. It is a cost that you incurr.

Don't know where you live or how fast you drive but if I go 30 miles an hour, it will take me one hour total to get to and from the gig. This doesn't account for set up or tear down. Jokester said so he thinks about 1/2 hour total. 15 minutes for set up and 15 for tear down.

Now let's take the 1 hour travel, the 1/2 hour setup and tear down and add it to the 5 1/2 hours for the gig. SO 5 1/2 plus 1 1/2 = 7 hours total.

$75.00 Gig pays
- 4.25 for music
- 1.46 for insurance
- 15.00 for mileage
------------
$54.29 Gross pay for this gig
$54.29 divided by 7 hours = $7.76 per hour

Now if you are still with me, let try to average it out for the month.

You monthly expenses are:
$85.00 for music
$29.16 for insurance
-------
$114.16 total PLUS THE COST OF THE MILAGE TO GET TO EACH GIG. Let's say you average 30 miles for each gig you do. 30 times .50 cents per mile = $15.00 per gig.(average)

If you do just one gig that month, you will need to charge $129.16 just to break even. If you do 20 gigs that month, you still have the same fixed expense of $114.16 plus $15(average) for mileage to each gig.
So $114.16 fixed expense plus $300 mileage expense = $414.16 divided by 20 gigs is $20.71 total expenses per gig.
Now if the only thing you do is the $75 bar gig 20 times a month, your gross is $1500. Subtract the $414.16 in expenses and you made $1085.84 BEFORE INCOME TAXES. Take the $1085.84 times 12 months = $13030.08 per year BEFORE INCOME TAXES.

So based on this, the bar is pretty mush paying poverty level wages. If everyone would just learn to say no and name your price to the bar instaed of the bar naming the price to you, this profession might pay a living wage.

BTW I didn't include equipment(laptops, hardrives, cables, etc.) cost in this to keep it simple. If you include it, it would make your cost per gig even higher thereby reducing your gross profit per gig.

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The original post:

Must have your own top hit music, plug laptop into existing system,
hours of operation 10pm - 3:30am $75.00 per night

$75 for 5 and half hours? WTF? Not worth it to me - your thoughts?

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how the heck do you go from a simple laptop connection to this....??????????

You are adding to the scenerio what isn't there.... how do you know that the venue isn't just a block away from the DJ's home/office.... just where did all the extraneous BS in this post come from...

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How do you know it is a block away. If you are in business you have expenses do you not?

READ PLEASE....It's an example.

Answer the following Yes or No.

1. Original post states $75 per night. Does it not?
2. Original posts states 5 1/2 hours does it not?
3. Original post states "Must have your own top hit music" Does it not?

4. Do you agree you need to buy music or do you get it from other sources?
5. Do you agree that you should have insurance and in order to get insurance, you have to pay for it?
6. Do you agree there is travel mileage involved? Even if it's 2 miles, there is an expense involved. Is it not or do you get your vehicle, gas, tires, oil for free?
7. Do you agree that it takes time to travel and set up and tear down your gear?
8. Do you agree you have to buy your laptop and maybe a hard drive?
9. Do you agree that in order to make a profit, you have to make more revenue than your expenses?

The original poster asked

your thoughts?

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did he not?

I am pointing out that in order to earn this $75 there are expenses you have to do it. When the $75 get placed in your hand, you then have to deduct your expenses from it. Therefore, you are not making $75 pure profit. Much less.

Now before you say anything else, please answer the above 9 questions. Then please tell me what parts do you consider

extraneous BS

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just where did all the extraneous BS in this post come from

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Contribute in a constructive professional way. Itemizing your expenses, yes expenses (not BS), then subtracting them from your revenue is the only way to know if you are making a profit. If you have not done this then are you making a profit?

If you think you walk in, plug in and it's all profit, you're wrong.

spam4us said:

The original post:




How do you know it is a block away. If you are in business you have expenses do you not?

READ PLEASE....It's an example.

Answer the following Yes or No.

1. Original post states $75 per night. Does it not? Yes
2. Original posts states 5 1/2 hours does it not? Yes
3. Original post states "Must have your own top hit music" Does it not? Yes

4. Do you agree you need to buy music or do you get it from other sources? No, already have the music remember this is a gravey gig not a bread and butter gig.
5. Do you agree that you should have insurance and in order to get insurance, you have to pay for it? Not unless I plan to throw my laptop at someone.
6. Do you agree there is travel mileage involved? Even if it's 2 miles, there is an expense involved. Is it not or do you get your vehicle, gas, tires, oil for free? Yes, ok maybe a $2.00 expense here so what...
7. Do you agree that it takes time to travel and set up and tear down your gear? Sure, but do you get paid to travel to a regular day job??? Do they pay you extra for your Gas to get to a regular Day Job??? So, while I agree there is travel and gas spent I don't agree that it's part of the expenses for doing the gig... you are not expending any gas or extra time once there.... and the pay is for 5.5 hours not your travel or gas....
8. Do you agree you have to buy your laptop and maybe a hard drive? Since those are things I already own and have already been paid for, no.
9. Do you agree that in order to make a profit, you have to make more revenue than your expenses? Absolutely and it looks like $75 - $3.00 for gas I just made $72 bucks of pure profit... no sweat.

The original poster asked did he not?

I am pointing out that in order to earn this $75 there are expenses you have to do it. When the $75 get placed in your hand, you then have to deduct your expenses from it. Therefore, you are not making $75 pure profit. Much less.

Now before you say anything else, please answer the above 9 questions. Then please tell me what parts do you consider



Contribute in a constructive professional way. Itemizing your expenses, yes expenses (not BS), then subtracting them from your revenue is the only way to know if you are making a profit. If you have not done this then are you making a profit?

If you think you walk in, plug in and it's all profit, you're wrong.

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See answers in blue.... trust me dude you and all the worthers are making a mountain out of a mole hill here.

Bottom line here is we can just agree to disagree, ok.

4. Do you agree you need to buy music or do you get it from other sources? No, already have the music remember this is a gravey gig not a bread and butter gig.
Doesn't matter if it a gravey or bread and butter. You still had to spend money to buy music. If you used it at one gig that month or 10 gigs that month it still cost you the same but spread out over 10 instead of one. BTW what do you put on your taxes for the cost of your music? Do you enter income from all of your gigs then subtract the cost of your music for the year? Because if you did, you are deducting the cost of your music from all of your gigs and not just from the bread and butter.

5. Do you agree that you should have insurance and in order to get insurance, you have to pay for it? Not unless I plan to throw my laptop at someone.
And if someone trips over one of your wires or falls and hit his head on your laptop do you think you are immune to not being sued? No insurance, no protection. Wanna risk everything you own over not having to spend $350 per year for insurance? Not a smart thing to do. BTW there are lots of venues that require that my business is insured and want to be added as an additional insured.

6. Do you agree there is travel mileage involved? Even if it's 2 miles, there is an expense involved. Is it not or do you get your vehicle, gas, tires, oil for free? Yes, ok maybe a $2.00 expense here so what...
and if it's 25 miles away then what? Not all of your gigs are 2 miles away. Do you deduct your milage cost from your revenue on your tax return as an EXPENSE? Even for this "gravey" gig? Bet you do.

7. Do you agree that it takes time to travel and set up and tear down your gear? Sure, but do you get paid to travel to a regular day job??? Do they pay you extra for your Gas to get to a regular Day Job???
No I don't get paid extra for gas to get to my day job BUT before I accepted the job, I made sure I was compensated in my salary to cover the cost of this expense. Didn't you? Would you take a job that pays minimum wage but was located 150 miles each way from your home? I think not. You'd spend it in gas wouldn't you?

So, while I agree there is travel and gas spent I don't agree that it's part of the expenses for doing the gig.
So you do not deduct the milage on your tax return for this gig at the end of the year as an expense? You let uncle Sam keep the money?

8. Do you agree you have to buy your laptop and maybe a hard drive? Since those are things I already own and have already been paid for, no
And you did spend money to buy them didn't you? Where did the money come from? Money you earned from previous gigs? Did you deduct the cost of the laptop & hard drive as a depreciated EXPENSE on your taxes? Bet you did.
9. Do you agree that in order to make a profit, you have to make more revenue than your expenses? Absolutely and it looks like $75 - $3.00 for gas I just made $72 bucks of pure profit... no sweat
So you're starting to see that you indeed have expenses to do this gig. You just don't see how much you really have. At tax time, you get to deduct the expenses from the income you made. That includes mileage to and from your bread and butter gigs as well as what you call your gravey gigs. It also include the cost of your music as an EXPENSE deduction. Did you know that the cost of insurance is also deducted as an EXPENSE as well. Oh yeah, let's also deduct the laptop and hard drive as an EXPENSE as well.

Let's also remember that you do not differentiate your expenses between your so called bread and butter gigs and the gravey gigs. At tax time, all of your expenses are deducted from all of you income for all of your gigs, both bread and butter and gravey.

and trust me "dude" me and all the worthers wouldn't take a gig that pays this low. Why? because we know how much you really make taking a gig like this. I've done the math and if you look at what I presented, you can too.

Ok you win... whatever...

You will never convice me that there is that much expense and I'll never convice you that it's good money for the little work that has to be done.... there done end of the story... if you can't agree to disagree then I will have no choice but to lock this thread because we are both right and we are both wrong... ok?

BTW I'm not even going to bother to read that bag of hot air you posted above..... why? Cause I just don't care for Worthers...

jokerswild said:

Ok you win... whatever...

You will never convice me that there is that much expense and I'll never convice you that it's good money for the little work that has to be done.... there done end of the story... if you can't agree to disagree then I will have no choice but to lock this thread because we are both right and we are both wrong... ok?

BTW I'm not even going to bother to read that bag of hot air you posted above..... why? Cause I just don't care for Worthers...

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No hot air here you are like a $10.00 whore take my word for it unless you are starving to death if you do a gig like this you will feel cheap after.

Oooooo zombies

You hurt my whittled fewings

Theres No Way I Would Dj For $75. I Dj 3 Nights A Week At Different Places And Get From $200 To $300 A Night.

In Olympia About An Hour South Of Seattle