How much money?

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so Cesaar you avoided my question. If you pay your DJs 50% of the gig fee and they work maybe 30 gigs a yr for you are they professional? If they arent then is your company a professional DJ company? Answer the question please. It has everything to do with you and what you do.
 
Cesar said:
Hey if you want to compare yourself to the DJ that did a event and his friends chipped in to pay him making him a Professional DJ by your definition, Have at it.
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If you actually read what most people here are telling you, you'd see that they are not trying to compare themselves with anyone. You are the one that seems obsessed with the notion that you need to compare yourself with others in order to validate "professionalism" or not.

If you truly believe you are a professional, and your clients and colleagues believe that too, it should be all that matters. If you feel you are not making enough money, then make more. Whether or not you make more that someone in Milwaukee is not going to help you be more professional. Only you can do that.

We should all take good self inventory to see where we want to improve, whether it's more money, more time with family, more gigs, better gigs, more referrals....whatever. But simply comparing yourself to others that you don't really know how much they are making, and exactly what they are doing to earn that money, and what kind of financial commitments, restraints, and goals they have....doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me.

Try looking in the mirror...and compare yourself to that person you wanted to be. If you are more professional than him, relax and have a cocktail
 
SoftJock Rick said:
That's called an analogy -- but if you were a pro, you would know that terminology... ;)
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mikemerlin said:
I am trying to wrap my mind around this but can't seem to. I bow to your greater wisdom!
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Kirby Ball said:
According to your own standards. Show us some documentation, studies, research, etc. that can support your "arbitrary" number.
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steve149 said:
Again Cesar .. not MY definition ... the dictionary's.
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sightsandsounds said:
...something that EVERY SINGLE PERSON ON HERE has been trying to pound into your thick, dense, ignorant skull from the beginning of this thread.
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How about since the beginning of his membership on this or any other board? He's the ultimate "Shock Jock". The best debate you can have with Chaz, is the one you didn't join.
 
Cesar said:
Well I'm dam sure not going to agree like the most of you that $1,000 a year makes you a Professional

Well I'm dam sure not going to agree like the most of you that $2,000 a year makes you a Professional.

Well I'm dam sure not going to say the DJ charging $1,000 for a Wedding Reception but only does it 25 times a year is a professional like the most of you will say he is.

I like my $50,000 a year done more then a few times as a gauge of a true Professional DJ that derives his livelihood from his chosen profession as a DJ.

Hey if you want to compare yourself to the DJ that did a event and his friends chipped in to pay him making him a Professional DJ by your definition, Have at it.
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And I'm Damn sure not going to compare myself to a fellow who does 250 $200 gigs a year just to maintain a $50,000 plateau

Or a guy that hides in the shadows

And I'm DAMN sure not going to compare myself to a fellow that can't spell DAMN
 
steve149 said:
You reiterate that the money is irrelevant, but I stand firm with the money IS what makes a professional. ... if you are paid to do a set of specialized tasks, you are by definition a professional.
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Nonsense. I was paid to play baseball once, but I'm not and never have been a professional ball player. Likewise, when I do an event for free I don't lose my professional status - in fact, it is my professional status that causes the charity to seek me out in the first place. Money doesn't matter.

The definition of professional in the marketplace is: a reliable and predictable outcome. Ask anyone why they hired a professional to do anything and every time they will tell you: "because I knew it would be done right." Therein lies your proof that what the marketplace defines as professionalism is prior knowledge of a consistent outcome - not the exchange of money.
 
Proformance said:
Nonsense. I was paid to play baseball once, but I'm not and never have been a professional ball player. Likewise, when I do an event for free I don't lose my professional status - in fact, it is my professional status that causes the charity to seek me out in the first place. Money doesn't matter.

The definition of professional in the marketplace is: a reliable and predictable outcome. Ask anyone why they hired a professional to do anything and every time they will tell you: "because I knew it would be done right." Therein lies your proof that what the marketplace defines as professionalism is prior knowledge of a consistent outcome - not the exchange of money.
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My cat "reliably and predictably" comes to her bowl when I pour food in, but I'll guess she's not a professional.

Bob .. I don't disagree that those are expectations of a professional, just as would be proper dress, punctuality, etc. It just isn't the definition in my or Webster's opinion. We can agree to disagree.
 
Cesar said:
Well I'm dam sure not going to agree like the most of you that $1,000 a year makes you a Professional

Well I'm dam sure not going to say the DJ charging $1,000 for a Wedding Reception but only does it 25 times a year is a professional like the most of you will say he is.

I like my $50,000 a year done more then a few times as a gauge of a true Professional DJ that derives his livelihood from his chosen profession as a DJ.
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The only thing of merit you have to your credit in that idea is that at $50k a DJ must doing something right. However, that infers only an economic reality and does not confer the status of professional. There's more to it than a number - even if it's your sole income!

I can show you plenty of DJs who take in $50k that no serious event planner considers professional. They fill a need but, that's the limit of their potential. Unltimately what they have is a job - not a career.
 
Proformance said:
Nonsense. I was paid to play baseball once, but I'm not and never have been a professional ball player. Likewise, when I do an event for free I don't lose my professional status - in fact, it is my professional status that causes the charity to seek me out in the first place. Money doesn't matter.
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Did you ever think maybe the reason you got the gig is because your willing to do it for free ? There is a good chance the director of that charity is getting paid 6 digits a year, the DJ should get paid too.
 
steve149 said:
My cat "reliably and predictably" comes to her bowl when I pour food in, but I'll guess she's not a professional.

Bob .. I don't disagree that those are expectations of a professional, just as would be proper dress, punctuality, etc. It just isn't the definition in my or Webster's opinion. We can agree to disagree.
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When the great Book Of Webster was printed, there were no DJs! LOL Steve, some things can be taken literally by definition but there are other definitions that do not apply to other things in that manner.
 
steve149 said:
My cat "reliably and predictably" comes to her bowl when I pour food in, but I'll guess she's not a professional.
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That you can't see what is missing - or the lack of an analogy there is kind of disturbing.

Bob .. I don't disagree that those are expectations of a professional, just as would be proper dress, punctuality, etc. It just isn't the definition in my or Webster's opinion. We can agree to disagree.
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..and as you add each new exception and special case to your definition it becomes clear that it is no definition at all. It defines nothing.. identifies nothing, instructs no one, and provides no insight into what professionalism means in the context of daily economics. I hope someday you'll rethink the notion of "Webster's Dictionary" as a guide to life. :)
 
Audio One said:
Did you ever think maybe the reason you got the gig is because your willing to do it for free ?
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No, I get the gig because I'm referred by someone who was probably a very well paying customer. The cost (or lack thereof) is at my choice or suggestion.

Businesses that only take from a community and don't give back in meaningful measure generally don't survive very long.

There is a good chance the director of that charity is getting paid 6 digits a year, the DJ should get paid too.
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Wow. That's a really narrow minded and selfish viewpoint. The director of the charity is employed full time seeking a constant and steady stream of revenue to fund the operation of the Charity. Do you have any idea of what the operating budget of the American Red Cross is? Is it worth 6 figures to have people on staff who are capable of that level of fundraising? Do you presume that as a DJ you are capable of generating that kind of revenue by your presence at a one-off event?

The DJ is asked to make a like kind donation of a value often less than the cash offered by private individuals and families, and most certainly of other businesses in the community. The DJ might make an event more enjoyable - but, unless you are a celebrity the funds raised are not attributable to your presence.
 
Jeff

Little disappointed in that last response.

Met with a B/G yesterday that booked my service. As we talked I asked them if they interviewed or talked with any other DJs and they said they talked to one other DJ. When they called the DJ back it was very confusing because the DJ was trying to figure out if it was one of his pool cleaning customers or a Ebay customers, When he figured out it was a inquiry for his DJ service he said I DJ to. There is another one of your Professional DJs, I think not.
 
ahoustondj said:
When the great Book Of Webster was printed, there were no DJs! LOL Steve, some things can be taken literally by definition but there are other definitions that do not apply to other things in that manner.
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I know this, and most of what I wrote was tongue-in-cheek. It's just some have been defining what they believe to be "their" ideal description of a DJ as the "definition", not just "their definition". Sort of when opinion tries to become fact.
 
The livelihood definition is the only definition to be used to justify the term Professional. Everything else is part time professional, hobbiest professional, apprentice professional unless of course you want to believe that the first time someone paid you to DJ a event you automatically became a Professional DJ.

For those that agree getting paid for your first event did not make you a Professional DJ then when did you become one?
 
Proformance said:
That you can't see what is missing - or the lack of an analogy there is kind of disturbing.


..and as you add each new exception and special case to your definition it becomes clear that it is no definition at all. It defines nothing.. identifies nothing, instructs no one, and provides no insight into what professionalism means in the context of daily economics. I hope someday you'll rethink the notion of "Webster's Dictionary" as a guide to life. :)
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A "true" professional should be able to make a coherent argument without resorting to low-brow innuendo.

I'd like to believe that a "professional DJ" would act as one would expect a professional to act, would perform as one would expect a professional to perform and would look like one would expect a professional to look, but that does not mean I will take that as the sole definition of a "professional". While there are fields that have licensing and certification requirements to be a professional (to be paid) in that field, and because of that require a significant amount of research, study, testing , and evaluation .. leading to a given set of standards for that field, I can only reiterate that DJing DOES NOT (to the lament of some).

Acting professional and being one are not the same thing and vice-verse as demonstrated.
 
Proformance said:
Nonsense. I was paid to play baseball once, but I'm not and never have been a professional ball player.
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And according to most sports organizations, the minute you get paid for the act of playing a sport (actual payment for play, not expense reimbursement and such), you forfeit your right to be an amateur and become a professional, solely based on the fact you were paid.
 
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