Correction: The controller should always be used. In the case I'm speaking of, the controller is built into the sub and there are times that the sub does not come along. This controller is not 'needed' but should be used.
Help me define my new system
- Thread starter steve149
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Correction: The controller should always be used. In the case I'm speaking of, the controller is built into the sub and there are times that the sub does not come along. This controller is not 'needed' but should be used.
Steve,
Just a quick story:
I recently had a "live Karaoke band" play at our place..6700 sq ft. It was great fun. They gave me a price, which included $300 for sound equipment and a sound guy. I said, Well, maybe we could use my L1's and save me the $300. He said he used the L1's, they sounded excellent...for an acoustics band...but there is NO WAY a band like his could use them...they needed much more power and bass than these things could handle.
He just about refused to do it, saying he was sure they would sound awful. I said take it or leave it. He took it. I had my brother, who knows much more about live sound than me, help me.
They had a guitarist, a bassist, and a drummer. and 4 mics. We used an L1 for each guitar, and one for 2 mics and the drums. We toned matched the guitar and bass, and each microphone. We put just one bass bin with each L1. except for the bass guitar, I put 2. No monitors, all L1's were behind the musicians.
These guys could not believe how great it sounded. They also were amazed at how little the volume had to be up to be heard perfectly clear and loud from the farthest point in the place. Plenty of room if we needed to go louder, but didn't come close to needing it. Some people that came with the band mentioned that they sounded clearer than ever before(which sometimes can be a bad thing..."much clearer" reveals flaws just as it reveals the good stuff too...for live and recorded music.)
So then it changed to, yes, those things are great, but they are way too expensive. I can understand if a band finds them too expensive. They have to make a profit too. But not powerful enough? no way.
We did it for several weeks and then dropped it. We ended up just using 2 L1's. and it still sounded excellent. Crowds just couldn't justify the cost, but it was great fun and they sounded great.
Point is I still have yet to find a situation that these things don't shine. I'm sure it exists, I just haven't seen it. I guess if I primarily did very large school dances, I probably would use something else. But I've done just about any type of event with these for 250 to 350 people and haven't had the slightest issue. The only club stuff I've done...which isn't much....had their own gear.
On a side note, the guitarists, who initially hated the idea...being much more used to having someone running their sound, ended up loving the ability to adjust their own sound for their instrument.
Just a quick story:
I recently had a "live Karaoke band" play at our place..6700 sq ft. It was great fun. They gave me a price, which included $300 for sound equipment and a sound guy. I said, Well, maybe we could use my L1's and save me the $300. He said he used the L1's, they sounded excellent...for an acoustics band...but there is NO WAY a band like his could use them...they needed much more power and bass than these things could handle.
He just about refused to do it, saying he was sure they would sound awful. I said take it or leave it. He took it. I had my brother, who knows much more about live sound than me, help me.
They had a guitarist, a bassist, and a drummer. and 4 mics. We used an L1 for each guitar, and one for 2 mics and the drums. We toned matched the guitar and bass, and each microphone. We put just one bass bin with each L1. except for the bass guitar, I put 2. No monitors, all L1's were behind the musicians.
These guys could not believe how great it sounded. They also were amazed at how little the volume had to be up to be heard perfectly clear and loud from the farthest point in the place. Plenty of room if we needed to go louder, but didn't come close to needing it. Some people that came with the band mentioned that they sounded clearer than ever before(which sometimes can be a bad thing..."much clearer" reveals flaws just as it reveals the good stuff too...for live and recorded music.)
So then it changed to, yes, those things are great, but they are way too expensive. I can understand if a band finds them too expensive. They have to make a profit too. But not powerful enough? no way.
We did it for several weeks and then dropped it. We ended up just using 2 L1's. and it still sounded excellent. Crowds just couldn't justify the cost, but it was great fun and they sounded great.
Point is I still have yet to find a situation that these things don't shine. I'm sure it exists, I just haven't seen it. I guess if I primarily did very large school dances, I probably would use something else. But I've done just about any type of event with these for 250 to 350 people and haven't had the slightest issue. The only club stuff I've done...which isn't much....had their own gear.
On a side note, the guitarists, who initially hated the idea...being much more used to having someone running their sound, ended up loving the ability to adjust their own sound for their instrument.
I think this is a good analogy for a DSLR camera. Right now, I'm totally lost trying to figure out the controls on my new camera. So many choices I don't even know what they mean or why I'd want them. But once I figure them out, I'll be able to do much more.
With my T1, I don't need to navigate through menus at a gig. I have them set up so any situation that I should need is a saved scene. I've found it to be incredibly useful and can't remember the last time I had to navigate it. But it did take me a while to figure out all the things I could do with it, and to figure out how to get to the things I wanted.
Not knowing how to navigate the T1 may lead to not knowing what the T1 can do which may be why you are not getting enough of what you want out of them. However, it could be that they are just not for you. It makes sense that not everyone will like the same thing.
Rick, if you don't like them, shoot me a price. I may be able to find someone to take them off of your hands.
Unless the Tonematch is required to get a good sound, I would prefer relying on my A&H mixer and my DriveRack for scenes. If it is needed for basic needs like the 802/901 need, then I guess I have to look at that too.
Stve,
If you're interested in the Bose L1 I would talk with Cap Capello and see if they still have the 30 day money back promotion if you don't like the way it performs.
If you're interested in the Bose L1 I would talk with Cap Capello and see if they still have the 30 day money back promotion if you don't like the way it performs.
As I need the new pieces to do duty outside occasionally, I'm not sure the L1 will be the right piece, but I do want to hear it again.
While it's certainly not required for the Model 2, I think you lose a lot of the controls of what it can do. I have no idea what the a and h mixer and DriveRack would do and maybe someone else could figure out how to control it with something different. But personally I would not get a model 2 without the T1 Tonematch. The EQ system is designed perfectly for the model 2.
I believe it's still 45 days
Steve,
BTW, I don't want this to turn into a "why you should or shouldn't buy L1's". I think there has been some good options mentioned, and this is just one.
I guess my thought was I don't need something else that will mix, or add effects, or such (the Allen&Heath mixer has that built-in plus I have 2 additional reverb type units if needed). The DriveRack is an electronic crossover, so it would handle system eq and such. Wasn't sure if the L1 would work without the ToneMatch (or sound best) .. I just don't need one as a mixer.
Correction, I was referring to the 802s which I was referencing and recommending not the L1s!
The 802s have their own controller which is in essence a two way electronic crossover with adjustable and selectable options. The 802s do not use the Tone Match!
Yes .. similar to the 901 and similar to a set of EV Interface-Ds I had years ago.
Yes the 801,802, and 901's sound like ass without this unit much like the L1's when not using their proprietary units. Many have said adding big subs sounds like crap cause they arent tuned into the magic of Bose.
I take exception to that. As a full range box, yes it does not sound good without its Controller Unit. However, when I am doing a true Three Way Configuration using a Three way Stereo Electronic Crossover and three amps, I sometimes use the 802s as either Tweeter Boxes or Midrange Boxes (Perform the best in this application). The key is that there are no onboard filters inside the 802s. .
In a two way configuration I have used not only my scoops but with other Bass units connected to it. Everything plays nice together and sounds great.
What I like about the controller is that I can change the balance between Mid+Highs and Bass. See Pic.
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I believe I read that the 802 controller also does some pre-eq to address the internal quirks of the unit. May sound OK without it, but usually sounds better with it, even in stand-alone use.
I specifically stated that in stand alone, full range use that the Controller is needed. When I am only using it as a tweeter box it gets an amplified TWEETER only signal. When I am only using it as a midrange box it gets an amplified MIDRANGE only signal. No controller is needed for those two.
I <had> a link to a page that showed the actual curve of the 901 and 802 control boxes. LOL there's a reason these like power. MY 802's serve my garage/workshop these days. They make a dandy speaker out there in a permanent setup for FM radio. I drive 'em with some ancient 250W/channel amp I stopped using to play out years ago. I like the sound!
Best,
Paul
Best,
Paul
I guess my first inclination is for a larger workhorse full-range speaker (15/2 or 15/3 comes to mind). The 802s are intriguing given the current version is fairly weather proof should I need outdoor stuff. The downside would be a need to have a sub even for small/mid gigs.
The JTRs looks sweet, just don't know if I can find something reasonably close. There is a Bose store within an hour's drive, so I will definitely check those (and the L1s). The others will need to be heard at a GC or SamAsh. Not much else to choose from within 100 miles.
The JTRs looks sweet, just don't know if I can find something reasonably close. There is a Bose store within an hour's drive, so I will definitely check those (and the L1s). The others will need to be heard at a GC or SamAsh. Not much else to choose from within 100 miles.