Death Penalty

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No diversion on my part on purpose :)

Just pointing out some things to think on -- that is what debate is about (and it holds true in the jury room)...


Here's another one to think on...


Hugh brought up a tragedy that he had to deal with. I'm not picking on Hugh, but the sitrep is out in front of us, so perhaps it can lead to better understanding by discussing it. Yer welcome to use my cuz as well, as maybe he wouldn't have died for just a chain and watch.

Hugh more than likely had the option to handle this himself. Whether in the courtroom, on the street, in jail, whatever -- there are always options available.

My guess is he didn't, because he didn't want to lower himself, and also not throw away his life as well. So, he insists that somebody else should do it for him.


All the people clamoring for the death penalty, are not willing to do it themselves (they all say they would, but they never do). I doubt anybody reasonably civilized, could look someone in the eye, and stick a knife in them, without being physically threatened at the moment.

So the death penalty becomes an escape, for those not willing to enforce what they say they believe in, and insist that some other fool bear the guilt...
 
Rick,

I honestly enjoy your contributions here, and on many topics. I have found that you are articulate and insightful, but missed on this one. I don't feel personal retribution feelings for the loss. I don't want to hold to any anarchistic feelings like that. I want justice to prevail. I believe that justice here is death, quickly and humanely, but death nonetheless.

And, I would accept my position of execution for the state if it were given me. I don't think that is a problem for a person morally or eternally.

I do want to protect other families from the pain we lived through and the loss we still deal with. Have you ever seen your father sob out loud uncontrolably? How about your mother give up her favorite hobby (knitting in this case) because it reminds her of her little girl too much? Have you seen the press call your sister derogatory names in hopes of finding the "real scoop" on the news? Or heard the investigator tell you that one other girl was raped and almost killed (she still has no voice) by the same guy, because even though they knew who did it, there wasn't enough evidence to arrest yet? Try standing by your dad while his voice cracks on the phone, when the FBI calls to ask who are dentist is because they want her dental charts "just in case".

This is pain that should not be. A good culture spares its citizens from these things. Our didn't in this case, and doesn't today. It is a travesty of the highest kind.

The death penalty does deter. It does spare society from idiots. It is the right thing to do.

I would pull the trigger. Not out of vengence - out of a sense of preservation of my society.
 
I would pull the trigger. Not out of vengence - out of a sense of preservation of my society.
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Fair enough, but handle it yourself if you need to.


Don't pull a trigger. Walk up to the man, look him in the eye, stick a knife between two of his ribs and watch and feel the warm blood flow. Twist it 180 degrees, and hold on as he goes to the ground.

It will take him a few moments to die, and you can keep looking him in the eye as he does.


You say not out of vengeance, but isn't that really what you want...?

The largest part of your post above, is devoted to the pain that you have suffered, watching your family and others being hurt and deprived. It drips with anger and pain.


So, if you feel the need -- go for it!

Just don't involve my soul (or others), in your destiny -- fair enough?
 
Wow Rick, very graphic description and it makes your point well.

I believe in vengeance, but I don't want to go to jail to satisfy it. I'm fortunate that I don't have someone that I need to avenge and don't know how I would respond. I still feel that murderers need to be punished severely, you can call it collective societal vengeance.

This makes me think of the movie The Patriot with Mel Gibson. Very stark and brutal portrayal of violence and killing. It got me right in the gut, very disturbing.
 
It's not vengence. It's a sense of wanting to protect my culture, and others from feeling the pain. I described it because I want to bring others as close as possible in order to see what I would protect them from.

I don't want vengence. I actually tried to get in to see him in prision after the conviction to forgive him. I had a friend who was a prision chaplin who tried to help. Lucas wouldn't see me.

The pain I described should happen to no one. I put it out there for that alone. Lucas should never have been out or alive after his conviction. If that justice had happened I might have had great stories about my sisters budding opera career turning into a success, or my nieces and nephews.

This I blame on the softness of culture. Lucas was acting like he was - a predator. Society didn't live up to it's job of protection. If I wanted vengence I should take it out on society. I won't. It's not my style.
 
Jeff Romard said:
Or mabye it tells us that they couldn't afford a good lawyer. Justice is supposed to be equal but some are more equal than others. Show me a millionaire of any colour on death row...Just one...I can show you at least 6 that should be there but due to circumstances didn't quite make it
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Again, the fact that he couldn't afford a good lawyer, is no excuse to let him slide. He knew full well he could not afford a good lawyer when he savagely murdered his helpless victim. Maybe Charles Bronson had the right idea.
 
Part of the reason behind the endless appeals and extended stays at Club Fed ~ they are CYA measures. I agree that if we're gonna put someone to death, let's make sure we have the right guy.

If we bump these people off as soon as they're convicted... and evidence appears later that would have exonerated one or two, the Libs are gonna have an "I told ya so" field day.

Folks, I don't necessarily agree with Jane and Joe Taxpayer having to board people on death row. But somebody's gotta pay for it. By warehousing 'em for ten years or until their appeals expire, we can say we gave 'em every opportunity to prove us wrong.

Here's where life without parole comes in. Some states don't have a death penalty. In the case of convicted murderers, there should be no parole, ever. And there need be no Club Fed atmosphere. No television, no conjugal visits, no air conditioning, no nothing. A day's work on the penitentiary farm and they'll be too tired to get into mischief.
 
Life in Canada is 25 years unless you get classed as a Dangerous offender - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Scale_of_justice_2.svg" class="image" title="Scales of justice"><img alt="Scales of justice" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/100px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/100px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png. Getting someone listed as a dangerous offender is a tedious process at this time there are very few. Believe me I don't agree with our system either we have "club fed" too.

I have an inherent distrust for government regardless of nationality or political stripe. This distrust makes it real hard for me to pony up and say they should be allowed to put someone to death
 
Fred Stewart said:
Moved to debates forum.

My friends, we can debate the DP 'til the cows come home but the criminal mind ain't gonna change. I hope you guys don't brand me with the "L" word but if the DP was truly a deterrent, why are these murders still occurring?
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They're still occurring, because it's not the Norm for the death penalty to be given, and quickly enforced. I'm 100% for the death penalty in cases involving murder. That should be swift and clear. Kill someone, and Die. Drugs, etc... I'm not sure that warrants death, though I'm sure that an automatic death sentence for drug dealing, no matter how small the deal would also be a huge deterrent.

Criminals know that there's too many liberals on their side ready to defend their right to live even though they took away someone else's right.

If it was common knowledge that there were no moronic, anti-american, anti-victim, Pro-Murderer groups out there ready to fight the death penalty, they would think twice.


Once we cleaned out our prisons by executing every sorry son of a bitch who took someone else's life, the message would be clear!

Kill someone, and Die a swift and painful death.

You forfeit all rights as a human being when you take someone else's life.

I have no problem with slow torture, infliction of pain, or great suffering... They deserve it...

America has become pussified! We let religious leaders have influence on the way we do things. Someone needs to grow a set and tell all of the churches to shut their holes, or start paying taxes like every other "for profit" enterprise. Non-Profit my ass.

No one who kills deserves to live. If I had it my way, the crime would be punishable by death in the same manner as the victim.

you rape and strangle a woman? You're getting sodomized by a power tool, and getting a 24" tie wrap around the neck until stop living.

That'll learn ya!:sqwink:
 
I have no problem with slow torture, infliction of pain, or great suffering... They deserve it...
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Is yer name really Lynch...? :sqerr:
That'd be funny :sqlaugh:



We let religious leaders have influence on the way we do things. Someone needs to grow a set and tell all of the churches to shut their holes, or start paying taxes like every other "for profit" enterprise. Non-Profit my ass.
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Last I checked, the back of the US dollar bill had "In God We Trust" on it...

The fine folks that founded this country, might have something to say about yer comments... ;)
 
Hence the First Amendment to the US Constitution. :)

While I agree that the churches should stay out of guv'mint (and doctor's offices and people's bedrooms), I also feel that we shouldn't be so hasty with the DP. Some countries are. Once sentenced to death, the defendant is taken out and shot. That's not Liberal, Conservative nor whatever. That's just plain barbaric. I would like to think that American society has finally risen above all that.

Who can forget the Saddam Hussein trial? Had he been tried here Stateside, he'd still be on the Green Mile.

Remember, the ones who are in line for the DP are also the best BSers in the world. If they can pin a murder on someone else and/or cop a plea they'll do it. It takes time for DNA tests and forensics to be completed. In reality, murder cases are not necessarily solved within the timeframe of a television program. :)
 
Steve Lynch said:
America has become pussified! We let religious leaders have influence on the way we do things. Someone needs to grow a set and tell all of the churches to shut their holes, or start paying taxes like every other "for profit" enterprise. Non-Profit my ass.
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The rest of it made some sense but your reaching to include this. This is just propoganda, brother.


In case you didn't read it, I agree with the death penalty, and I happen to be an Evangelical!! Strange how when you let prejudging go you can see eye to eye on things, huh?
 
ahoustondj said:
They should "Quarter" him. Like the Scots used to do, tie each limb to a horse and away they go!
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Hey! That was us English doing it to the Scots ;)

It should be done to all evil murdering barstewards and a$$holes that "mess" with kids - I'd do it no sweat for me - I'd make them sweat though

I support the Polly Klass Foundation through the internet and a certain site...

Bring back the gas chamber and public flogging. Bollox to the ACLU
 
DJMC said:
I'm going to stay neutral on this topic.

Did everyone know that it costs $52,000 per year to feed, house, clothe, and contain one inmate on Death Row? This does not count the cost of the Appeals process, which is time consuming and probably costs the state $2 million per inmate (with open cases).

Therefore, it behooves us to make the correctional system pay!

SOYLENT GREEN......hehehehhe

that's all I have to say now....

I'm against the Death Penalty ONLY because its way more expensive than the alternative: triple bunked in maximum security for life.
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Soylent Green - good stuff - listen to Solent Green by Carbon/Silicon which is Mick Jones from Big Audio Dynamite and The Clash - great lyrics from my homeboy....

Another good track WTF
 
All this talk about the bible ????

Did you know there is a book called "The Bible for Dummies" considering (IMO) the bible is for dummies it all seems a contradiction

We all know is Harry Potter is real ;)
 
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