Death Penalty

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SoftJock Rick said:
So, you consider the court system (people like me and you), as collectively being God...?

Nope

Thank you -- I've always thought that myself too :sqlaugh:


Usually for me, it's the Son of God -- but that's only after 15 beers or so -- I'm just a cousin when sober though... ;)
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I'm pretty sure I'm an adopted son, though!
 
This is not complicated. If there is no doubt about the guilt of someone, then we hang them. Don't feel bad about it. Move on.

Of the people on death row a high percentage are of colour and the majority are poor.
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So what does this tell us. They committed a crime that was serious enough to warrant the death penalty. The fact that they are of color or are poor is no reason to excuse them from receiving that punishment which their crime calls for. Same goes if they were white and poor.
 
My beef with the death penalty is two parts. A) It's hypocritical to kill you because you killed someone just doesn't make sense to me. B) The whole 10 commandments thing.. I think that no one (or group) has the right to play god.

However, I'm in agreement with the death penalty for things like murder, rape, and child molestation. They're unspeakable crimes and I'm pretty sure anyone who has committed such crimes is a detriment to our society.

On the other hand unless there is video tape it is very rare that we can be 100% certain what happened. Before we take someone's even a "low level street thugs" life we should be 100% certain.

Therefore I'm against the death penalty except in cases in which we can be 100% sure, which is very rare.
 
Or lets go even further

White and Rich or of ethnicity and Rich!!
Brian Martin said:
So what does this tell us. They committed a crime that was serious enough to warrant the death penalty. The fact that they are of color or are poor is no reason to excuse them from receiving that punishment which their crime calls for. Same goes if they were white and poor.
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If and only if

The perp was seen and or on video or surrenders themselves or admits completely, then they should face the MUSIC!!:sqwink:
Deejay Dan said:
My beef with the death penalty is two parts. A) It's hypocritical to kill you because you killed someone just doesn't make sense to me. B) The whole 10 commandments thing.. I think that no one (or group) has the right to play god.

However, I'm in agreement with the death penalty for things like murder, rape, and child molestation. They're unspeakable crimes and I'm pretty sure anyone who has committed such crimes is a detriment to our society.

On the other hand unless there is video tape it is very rare that we can be 100% certain what happened. Before we take someone's even a "low level street thugs" life we should be 100% certain.

Therefore I'm against the death penalty except in cases in which we can be 100% sure, which is very rare.
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So Cal Hugh said:
No, hold the system responsible. I would gladly sit on that panel. But, having had a sister murdered by a convicted rapist gets me out of every jury pool since.
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Hugh I am truly sorry to hear about your sister but honestly if a member of my family was murdered I would want to see the bastard sit in jail for the rest of his days not have the easy way out

Again I don't believe jail should be a day spa it should be as close to inhumane as possible with the only ammenities being food and water. As much as I am against the death penalty I am also against prisions spending millions to keep offenders entertained
 
Thunder..no argument from me. The police community is no different than any other "walk of life" and has its "good" people, and its "bad" people. And yes, I've seen the atypical attitude you note. I can't control those folks actions, but can tell you that I was not of that mindset. On the contrary I suppose.
Its probably way too long to type here, but my guess is that if you and I ever would have had interaction, it would have been an open dialogue of common sense (provided you hadnt just gotten done beating one of your kids or spouse, etc).
 
Brian Martin said:
So what does this tell us. They committed a crime that was serious enough to warrant the death penalty. The fact that they are of color or are poor is no reason to excuse them from receiving that punishment which their crime calls for. Same goes if they were white and poor.
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Or mabye it tells us that they couldn't afford a good lawyer. Justice is supposed to be equal but some are more equal than others. Show me a millionaire of any colour on death row...Just one...I can show you at least 6 that should be there but due to circumstances didn't quite make it
 
Deejay Dan said:
A) It's hypocritical to kill you because you killed someone just doesn't make sense to me.
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The perp deprived another human being of his or her life, but that's fine? What does the murdered have to say about that? Oh, that's right. He/she is DEAD and ain't coming back. It's curtains.

Deejay Dan said:
B) The whole 10 commandments thing.. I think that no one (or group) has the right to play god.
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Does that also include the perp?

Deejay Dan said:
However, I'm in agreement with the death penalty for things like murder, rape, and child molestation. They're unspeakable crimes and I'm pretty sure anyone who has committed such crimes is a detriment to our society.
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That is diametrically opposed to the above.
 
Bryan Durio said:
The perp deprived another human being of his or her life, but that's fine? What does the murdered have to say about that? Oh, that's right. He/she is DEAD and ain't coming back. It's curtains.


Does that also include the perp?


That is diametrically opposed to the above.
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I agree with you. To me the death penalty is one of those hot button issues like politics, religion, and abortion that you don't talk about amongst friends. ;) This conversation has been tame but I can easily imagine someone being blinded by their own beliefs and refusing to think about the other side of the coin; the other persons opinion.

As for the perp depriving another human of their life, I agree 100% on that point, however two wrongs don't make a right.

As for the perp playing God I agree with that too, however again I don't see where two wrongs making a right. Killing him isn't going to bring back the person he killed, it make be of some comfort to a vengeful family but not much else. Asides it's really the easy way out they don't have to live every day of their life in a hell hole prison. On the flip side, life without parole isn't the answer either because there is no deterrent for the guy not to kill again.

I certainly don't have all the answers but the current system of the death penalty and life without parole just plain doesn't work.
 
But I don't think the consequence for taking someone else's life ought to be a couple of decades spent on Easy Street. Call it vengeance if you will, but there is an element of that in my position. It's part of the libertarian philosophy: Personal responsibility. I have no problem with the Death Penalty for murderers.
 
 
I'm not exactly a Libertarian (capital L). I've got Republican leanings but I also have Democrat leanings, although they don't show as much. I'm not exactly an Independent, either. I'm sure that I'm definitely something!

I like the core Libertarian philosophy of individual liberty and personal responsibility.

Of course, that will never work in reality because people will perceive individual liberty as their ticket to anarchy and they'll refuse to take personal responsibility for their actions.
 
This is going to sound strange, but I didn't really think of this thread as a death penalty discussion when I started it. I was just outraged by the killing of that young Marine and wanted to share the article with y'all. I probably should have titled the thread "Murdered Marine". It's sad that a human life is worth so little to some people.

Are the killers mentally ill? If they're mentally ill in the sense that they aren't "normal" does that mean that they shouldn't be executed because of it? If someone is childlike and does something without understanding, then that's manslaughter. People don't get executed for committing manslaughter. What was done was 1st degree murder.

IMO, society needs to be purged of dangerous individuals. Are they Psychotic or Sociopathic? do they just lack empathy for other human beings. Whatever it is, they cause great harm to other people. They would probably do well in the jungle thousands of years ago hunting animals for food and living in a primitive world, but that's long gone. In order for the human race to continue to evolve in a positive way those kinds of antisocial people need to be eliminated from the population. That kind of violence can't be allowed.
 
In order for the human race to continue to evolve in a positive way those kinds of antisocial people need to be eliminated from the population. That kind of violence can't be allowed.
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There's one minor flaw in that logic (actually, there's a few)...


Humans are animals, with intrinsic animal instincts.

Those are never going to disappear -- now matter how civilized a person thinks they are. Case in point -- read through this thread -- many would like to "purge" society of certain other humans, who don't meet their individual standards ;)

Many people have tried purging society of the misfits (a number of them during WW II) -- didn't work too well for them...

So the question always comes back to: Who decides who lives and dies...?


The reason the debate is so volatile, is because it is as age old as humans. It is essentially the debate between good vs evil. If the "good" part of society decides to "purge" the evil side -- are they then still good, or are they evil as well...?
 
So the question always comes back to: Who decides who lives and dies...?
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I legal system and a jury of peers decide.

I like the core Libertarian philosophy of individual liberty and personal responsibility.
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This is founded on the teachings of John Stuart Mill, and is great reading. It has lots of merit.

Hugh I am truly sorry to hear about your sister but honestly if a member of my family was murdered I would want to see the bastard sit in jail for the rest of his days not have the easy way out

Again I don't believe jail should be a day spa it should be as close to inhumane as possible with the only ammenities being food and water. As much as I am against the death penalty I am also against prisions spending millions to keep offenders entertained
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Thanks Jeff. It was in '84 so I am as over it as is possible.

The reality is that the person who killed my sister (David Allen Lucas by name) is costing the state millions of dollars each year because in the idiot logic of the liberals around here, death penalties MUST be appealed. They are laying off teachers, but rapists and murderers (he was convicted of 5, and tied to 13 more) cost us millions. All this because we are sensetive. Stupid.

As for the conditions in prision, thank the ACLU for their vision of "Cruel and Unusual Punishment" being thrust down our throats.

Some call it being advanced. I call it stupid.
 
Many people have tried purging society of the misfits (a number of them during WW II) -- didn't work too well for them...
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The comparison is weak. One individual who went through a legal system for choice of action, and a who category of people who committed no crimes. It just doens't stand up.

BTW, once again this board impresses me. The fact that we can discuss and not digress is a testament to the virtue of the players. You all make me honored to be here.
 
To be fair Rick, there IS a big difference between ethnic cleansing which is arbitrary mass murder based on the hatred of an entire racial, ethnic or religious group like in Bosnia for example and the execution of a convicted murder who stabbed or shot someone during a robbery. Selecting a whole ethnic, racial or religious group for extermination can't be compared to punishing a punk who blows someone away during a robbery. That's the kind of societal cleansing I and some others meant. If someone approaches you with the intent of committing great bodily harm to you then you would execute them and so would I. If they do it to your cousin and you weren't there I think you would still feel the same way. The further removed we are from the crime, the less pain we feel and empathy for the victim is reduced.

You're very smart to divert away from a specific instance and compare it to a totally unrelated and in no way comparable example. It's like slight of hand in magic. You had me for a minute...
 
I'm going to stay neutral on this topic.

Did everyone know that it costs $52,000 per year to feed, house, clothe, and contain one inmate on Death Row? This does not count the cost of the Appeals process, which is time consuming and probably costs the state $2 million per inmate (with open cases).

Therefore, it behooves us to make the correctional system pay!

SOYLENT GREEN......hehehehhe

that's all I have to say now....

I'm against the Death Penalty ONLY because its way more expensive than the alternative: triple bunked in maximum security for life.
 
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