Opinions on the Bose L1 Gen. 2?

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Colleagues : I cannot speak for BOSE or the Guitar Center people on how they recommend or suggest system setup, gain staging, etc.

What I can tell you from personal experience is that there ARE variables that need to be checked. There are DJ old habits that must be changed. There are limitations of sound quality if the media choice is 128 mp3, iTunes, Napster files or other digital or CD sources other than store bought or direct copies.

I can also say that I've held my tongue out of respect for an Administrator here on OurDJTalk, however there's been no statistical or practical experience expressed in what's being talked about in terms of the real world L1 operation in large arenas. Neither does the untested untried opinions of those who "think' it can't do this or that and have no personal factual basis for it. Nothing can be done about those however when they cross the line of fact into blatant fiction, I'll be onboard with rebuttal, even if it means mixing it up a bit with the powers to be.

It is very disturbing to read what allegedly cannot be done with the L1 when it has been done...repeatedly and succesfully.

(queue Michael Buffer intro!):sqwink:
 
Cap Capello said:
Colleagues : I cannot speak for BOSE or the Guitar Center people on how they recommend or suggest system setup, gain staging, etc.

What I can tell you from personal experience is that there ARE variables that need to be checked. There are DJ old habits that must be changed. There are limitations of sound quality if the media choice is 128 mp3, iTunes, Napster files or other digital or CD sources other than store bought or direct copies.

I can also say that I've held my tongue out of respect for an Administrator here on OurDJTalk, however there's been no statistical or practical experience expressed in what's being talked about in terms of the real world L1 operation in large arenas. Neither does the untested untried opinions of those who "think' it can't do this or that and have no personal factual basis for it. Nothing can be done about those however when they cross the line of fact into blatant fiction, I'll be onboard with rebuttal, even if it means mixing it up a bit with the powers to be.

It is very disturbing to read what allegedly cannot be done with the L1 when it has been done...repeatedly and succesfully.

(queue Michael Buffer intro!):sqwink:
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Cap I'm not going to call you no fear lol. But I have heard a few DJ's are having problems with this mixer Numark CM200USB which is what I own have you found any reason for this being a problem with the Bose. By the way I only use one of the usb sound cards going into my laptop. My speaker cabling would be the same as it is now coming out of the back of my mixer and going to the bose. I'm on the bose site now trying to find out more info.
 
Dave: Yes, there have been significant noise issues with that specific mixer. There are some simple workarounds for the inherent noise that board puts out, but only on a case by case, single system by single system. There have also been issues with some laptop power supplies (Dell in particular) that pump out considerable rfi.

Though you bought from the GC and should get your questions answered from them, I'd be happy to roll up my sleeves with you and get it fixed...this time. :sqwink:

By the way, how'd that extra line get added to my quote in your post?
By the way I only use one of the usb sound cards going into my laptop. My speaker cabling would be the same as it is now coming out of the back of my mixer and going to the bose. I'm on the bose site now trying to find out more info
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That was not part of my original post...Our DJ Talk - DJ Help and Resources Chat! - View Single Post - Opinions on the Bose L1 Gen. 2?
 
I'll call him out... Fred, if you have never used it, don't assume anything.... whether you are right or wrong. You are better than that.

as far a GC goes, I have NEVER read a post where someone was pleased with the BOSE after hearing them at GC. But I HAVE heard buys buying it even aftyer they heard it there and they are happy...
 
Used with permission:

Hey Cap,

I have been asked many times about the new Bose PAS B1 L1 system and will it work for out door events?

The answer to this is a definite YES!!!!!!

I had a graduation - birthday event this last weekend in the back yard that was bigger than the size of a football field. It had several levels to it with activities going on all over the yard.

I was placed on a cement patio under a tent at one end and at the highest level of the yard.
The next level down had a tent with the food and the lowest level had a huge tent for seating and eating.

There was one level with a basketball court and an area with jump inside inflatables for the little kids and an area used to play football. There was also a man made stream and pond to take a dip in.

The sound quality and the distance the sound traveled was unbelievable! At the farthest distance away from the speakers was about 500 feet. The sound traveled the entire distance, still clear and easy to hear. I would estimate the loss of volume to be to be no more then 10% compared to standing next to the speaker.

The best part was that the volume controls on my mixing board and on the towers themselves was only set at 4 to 6 of the possible 10 to 15. I could have really blasted the sound but didn't’t have to.

People just kept coming up to me and asking me questions about the speakers. They couldn't’t believe the sound quality and clarity. I could have sold a few sets.

Using the BOSE I have noticed things in music that I never heard before. It is so clear and the sound is so separated that you can hear little things that was recorded into the music but not commonly heard before using standard speakers.

I can understand words to songs that I never could make out before. One song had birds chirping, one had a phone ringing, some sample voices of celebrities or sections of a famous song that could not be heard using any other standard set of speakers.

They hired a Limo service to take home those who shouldn't’t drive after the party. The driver was talking with me while tearing down and said that he could clearly hear the music from a few blocks away, but yet it wasn't’t loud while standing there in front of the speakers.


I am totally convinced that this new technology in sound is the greatest thing ever!



I have the entire Midwest Association of Professional DJ's a buzz about the system. One night one of the guys had a comparison contest with them. He had his BOSE set up and two other guys with their set ups. One was the B52's speakers and the other was a mix of different equipment.

Each would play the exact same song while people were standing all around the hall.
In every case the BOSE won for clarity and sound levels, but did loose to the deep Base thump sounds from the other set ups. I thought the only difference was that with the others you actually "FELT" the thump, where the BOSE you only "heard" the thump.

Jeff Richards: Party Time Productions.
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Dear Cap,

I just wanted to report on my first weekend of using my new BOSE system. I use the word power in parenthesis because two different meanings for the same word were revealed to me this past weekend.

On Friday Night I had an event at my local NFL Stadium out on the field. I have done this event for the previous 4 years so this was my 5th and first with the BOSE system. The sound that came out of those two towers and 4 B1s was something like I have never heard before. It literally filled the stadium with about 800 - 900 kids and parents running all over the place. The people working at the restaurant on the midlevel of the stadium made a point to come down and see "what the heck was I using to create that awesome sound". I counted no less than 17 people who came up to me saying "Those speakers are putting out that much power". Needless to say, I for sure felt like "the man" my first night out with them. How would I top that?

This brings me to the second meaning of "power"...

On Saturday I was setting up in a venue I had only been in once before over the past few years. In the midst of me setting up (mind you, no music had been played, I had not spoke on my mic yet, nothing!) the catering manager walks over to me and says "Can you please give me as many of your business cards as you have?" I was somewhat perplexed, I said to her, "But I have not even done anything yet, what if I don't do a good job?" Her response was, "I am not even worried about that, anyone with that sound system know what they are doing and you will get everyone of my referrals from now on." Wow!!! That is power!

To boot, I used them at a corporate event last night and the A/V guys said, "You are the real deal man, just looking at your setup tells us that. Those speakers alone prove your level of commitment to your job." Again, before I even turned the power on.

DJs out there reading these posts that are on the fence about getting this system, I was right there with you. It took me a year to decide to get this system. In 3 days (3 events) it has already proven to be the hands down best purchase I have made in my whole career as a Mobile Entertainer. Now that might change tomorrow, I doubt it, but I guess it could. Until then, if the day ever comes, I am looking forward to the possibilities that will branch from this already excellent start out of the shoot. Have an awesome week everyone.

David Hanscom
Sales Manager / Event Host, Y? Entertainment, Inc.
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Hi Cap…

First, let me thank you for your time and energy that you spent with me a couple of weeks ago. It was great going through my system and learning how the Bose system works and how to maximize my sound! Having someone like yourself with the knowledge you posses is invaluable to little ol’ mobile DJs like myself.

That being said, I had my first official gig with the new Bose system. To say I was a little nervous about how it was going to turn out is an understatement. This gig is at a new restaurant that I am trying to nail down and be their permanent party DJ on a monthly basis, so I wanted this to go flawless! Let’s just sum it up in one word…….UNBELIEVABLE……OUTRAGEOUS…..INCREDIBLE……ASTONSHING!!! (ok, so I wasn’t that good at math)

I was told my more than enough people that that was the BEST party I have ever thrown in the number of years I have DJ’ed. The party people that regularly come to my events were floored! They saw the speakers for the first time and about five of them said, “Oh, this is gonna be good! You got Bose!!!” The sound was the best that I ever heard! It was so good that there are some CDs that I am gonna have to go back and re-rip on my computer because I could hear some cracks in the music that I had never heard before! People were dancing all night long and the sound was tremendous!

When I had the sound at where I thought it was perfect and everybody dancing in front of me were just having the time of their lives, one of the night managers came up to me and asked if I could turn it up a little! I am sitting here thinking I am blasting them out, but the sound was so clear and perfect that I boosted up the sound and the people in front of the stage didn’t budge an inch!!!!

I don’t know what else to say but these speakers are gonna change my DJ life. There are still a few questions that I have (Cap, I will send you a separate email on those) but for a first time run, I am happier than a drunk pig in tequila slop!!! I mainly do party events, a wedding here and there, but mostly booty-shaking, ground-trembling is my repertoire. I am still trying to figure out why some DJs on these message boards are saying that these things don’t have enough “thump” in them. I turned the bass down at one point because I thought the floor was gonna cave in on me. Cap, you really need to sell your knowledge to some of these people. You could become a millionaire!

Sorry for making this one of the longest emails ever, but I just had to share my experience and my appreciation for your support and help! I will be posting this review (in an edited version) on the message boards that I am a part of, so that others can share in my experience. Thanks again for everything.

A Very Happy New Bose Customer,

Ken
DJ Joboo
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I'm running with the Bose 802's. I love my setup!!! My next upgrade will be the L1 in the near future. Cap, Thank you for all your insight.
 
Plain and simple.

Some like mackie. Some don't
Some like jbl. Some don't.
Some like bose. some don't.

It is what is done with the equipment that counts.

I like my bose system better than my jbl's. I perform mostly weddings. They fit the bill for me, the sound reproduction I want. I also love the "less weight" as I am no longer wanting to haul around 100lbs of speaker. It fits for me!

More than likely the input at guitar center was too hot. I heard them at a demo a few years back, and I thought they were awesome. But when I got them with my system, I always thought they weren't quite right.

After research, I found it was a too hot signal. Bought a different board, much better. I still want to try some impedance pads to see if I can get it even better.

As far as outside events???

I dj frequently at the local skydiving center. AKA an outside grass airport, farm country.

Several "local" people jump there and know me and my number. Last year when I was djing, a "farmer/skydiver" was out washing his truck while I was djing. Called me to make a request, and said my music sounded great.

He was well over a 1/4 mile away, thru full grown corn.

I like them. I'll keep em. I won't bash other systems either.

Can you??
 
I don't have a preference that would make me hate the system. I've heard them in action before, with the L1 1st generations and it wasnt too impressive. This however was with a crackhead Dj who clearly had no idea what he was doing. I hate how some DJs have money but no skill and no passion. I'd be willing to give the system it's fair trial and completely agree that many times the guitar center employees are less than knowledgable on the gear they sell.
 
Flyingdjdan said:
Several "local" people jump there and know me and my number. Last year when I was djing, a "farmer/skydiver" was out washing his truck while I was djing. Called me to make a request, and said my music sounded great.

He was well over a 1/4 mile away, thru full grown corn.
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There was a little more to that than the Bose L1 the conditions had to be near perfect for travel regardless what system you were using to be heard clearly at over 1/4 mile

Everyone here I am sure knows my opinion on the L1, B1 combo I don't have to restate it but I will say if you are thinking of demoing it don't do it at a garden variety store or from someone not familiar with the system get a demo from Cap or Scott or someone with thier knowledge on the system because its a little more complicated than a plug and play standard system
 
Jeff Romard said:
There was a little more to that than the Bose L1 the conditions had to be near perfect for travel regardless what system you were using to be heard clearly at over 1/4 mile

Everyone here I am sure knows my opinion on the L1, B1 combo I don't have to restate it but I will say if you are thinking of demoing it don't do it at a garden variety store or from someone not familiar with the system get a demo from Cap or Scott or someone with thier knowledge on the system because its a little more complicated than a plug and play standard system
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You got a double thanks for this post, Jeff. :)
 
Reuben: Those 802s are a fine system too. It was what I sold to buy the L1s (4 802s Series IIIs stacked 2 x 2 on Ultimate Supports powered by a Crown K2, with either 4 MB4s powered by a Crown MacroTech 2400, or for larger events, 2 502Bs powered by the same Crown MacroTech 2400).

Before that, the BOSE 502a & B with the EDSP, before that the 802 Series IIs with the 302 bass bins, before that the FBTs, before that JBLs, before that Peaveys, before that a half dozen other brands and models.

Now, with 3 years of exclusive L1 use (no BBE, no Kosmos, no DriveRack, no 30 band EQ, no NOTHING between the mixer out and the L1 in), there is no looking back nor is there a need to investigate forward. 300+ events and only one complaint about being too loud. That, my friend, is magic. Don't care how they did it, don't care what was involved to get it done, don't care about numbers or design criteria, all I care about is customer satisfaction with the audio portion of my performances. It's about 99.44% .

You won't be sorry when the time comes. I would be honored to be a part of that process with you.
 
DJCarolina:
I've heard them in action before, with the L1 1st generations and it wasnt too impressive. This however was with a crackhead Dj who clearly had no idea what he was doing. I hate how some DJs have money but no skill and no passion. I'd be willing to give the system it's fair trial and completely agree that many times the guitar center employees are less than knowledgable on the gear they sell.
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While some folks think that the questions being asked in my responses are attacking, it's not the intention. If someone is not pleased with what they heard, it is imperative to discover what may have caused the less than stellar audition or experience.

I'm can almost fully guarantee it is user error.

Here are some examples.

One user complaint was that the stereo reproduction was poor. After prodding and questioning, that person was using a single L1. How does one one get stereo imagery from ONE speaker? Would one use one speaker of any brand and expect stereo? Solved.

Another complained about not enough bass. After prodding and questioning, that person was using two L1s and just 2 B1s (the bass bins). That's half the recommended bass units, thus employing only half the available bass amp power. Of course it'll lack in bass when only 50% of what's needed is available. Solved.

Another user insisted on keeping the DriveRack in-line. That sets up conflicts with internal L1 passive EDSP and eq, so sometimes it'd be great, other times, not. Semi-solved, but that's the user's decision against learned experience.

In reading your post, I cannot thank you enough either for recognizing that the right tool in the hands of the wrong user will impact an outsider's perspective. Wish more folks would see that too.
 
Cap Capello:.....
In reading your post, I cannot thank you enough either for recognizing that the right tool in the hands of the wrong user will impact an outsider's perspective. Wish more folks would see that too.
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I am entering this late and it's because I know nothing about the Bose systems. It's because of this thread that I see where opinions of a system (Pro or Con) can be formed.
Had anyone listened to my first 10 gigs I did with my JBL's, would have come away with a very low opinion of JBL! Today they have and do have a very high opinion of my system. The more favorable results today has nothing to do with JBL! It's the operator!
In my mind if there is a new type of system out there like the Bose that requires a different approach to Sound Production, you will have a hugh difference in opinion on the system depending on who's system (operator) you are listening too......That's the risk a manufacturer runs in any business with any new product. You (Mfg.) are at the mercy of your worst operator. Couple that with a change in appearance, a change in operation and you will have widely varying opinions of any new item. Thats the risk the Entrepreneur (Mfg.) has to be willing to accept.
In other area's of our society, with products of all kind, there has been an increase in the last few years of law suits filed against Mfg.in the area of "Product Misuse". Where consumers have misused the product as labeled, but still win substantial judgments against manufactures. These judgments have been awarded due to "expected results", meaning the Mfg. should have expected these results when they went to the market with there product.

So......back on track....the response heard from those very pleased with the Bose, with very supportive data, as well as those displeased and the Bose again personal experiences are both correct. The fact that the sales people @ GC do not know how to display, or Demo the product is the Manufactures problem. and not the consumers.
 
Jeff Romard said:
There was a little more to that than the Bose L1 the conditions had to be near perfect for travel regardless what system you were using to be heard clearly at over 1/4 mile
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Jeff,

I am not going to put that into any of my marketing packets, for sure.

I can only state, I got the call, repeat what was said to me. I too, have strong doubts of the validity and definition of "clear". It was late night, like I said, farm country. Nothing but corn field.

I suppose I should have put an asterisks* by the statement as circumstantial?? :sqwink:

Then again, maybe it was like the field of dreams movie... Instead of "build it, and they will come."

It was "request it, and they will play!"
 
Though I don't post here much, I will vouch for my good friend Cap. And there are some here that know me and know that my word is good. :)
 
Yup. Operator error can be a real bugbear in this business. It's not just Bose. Inexperienced people have been botching sound for generations. Every single control, knob or adjustment is just another opportunity for misuse. :D

Cap's experiences had me shaking my head. How the heck could anyone expect stereo separation with a single channel in use? And if you need 4 bass bins, why go with only 2? If you need it, get it.

As I understand, the L1 is fully self-contained. I shouldn't think there'd be a need for a Driverack nor other outboard processing. And a Driverack (or other processing), if improperly set up can make mud with any system.

Part of the rub ~ many people have a serious issue with reading and following instructions. Be honest... how many of us have bought things and just started using 'em right out of the box without reviewing the instruction pamphlet first? I have and I'll wager some of you folks have as well. :)

Not to be knockin' GC or other retail outlets but fair is fair. A retail outlet is not necessarily the best place to demo audio gear. Proper gain structure is critical with prosound equipment. If them folks at GC don't understand it (or don't care), a very nice system can sound like mud.
 
Fred : Head shaking? Me too, but also share some of the guilt when realizing that spending one hour with each user before they plug it in and walk each customer through the system, the knobs/buttons/preset settings, the specs, test it to make sure it's 100% from the factory, then plug their system in, make sure their cables are good, identify their system's noise floor FIRST!! then gain stage, tweak channels and mics, do a little advance troubleshooting for the typical "what ifs", and when I'm done with them, they are all experts. No reading required however listening (equally as tough for some) is mandatory.

Since adopting an educational telephonic one-on-one personal training, only one system per hundred is being returned during the 45 day free trial when before it was ten per hundred without it. That kinda says it all in that stat alone.

In all fairness to this or any product, most are not difficult to master. Most problems arise from the user having been doing setting and staging incorrectly from the very beginnings in the business, never knowing anything different.
 
Cap Capello said:
Fred : Head shaking? Me too, but also share some of the guilt when realizing that spending one hour with each user before they plug it in and walk each customer through the system, the knobs/buttons/preset settings, the specs, test it to make sure it's 100% from the factory, then plug their system in, make sure their cables are good, identify their system's noise floor FIRST!! then gain stage, tweak channels and mics, do a little advance troubleshooting for the typical "what ifs", and when I'm done with them, they are all experts. No reading required however listening (equally as tough for some) is mandatory.

Since adopting an educational telephonic one-on-one personal training, only one system per hundred is being returned during the 45 day free trial when before it was ten per hundred without it. That kinda says it all in that stat alone.

In all fairness to this or any product, most are not difficult to master. Most problems arise from the user having been doing setting and staging incorrectly from the very beginnings in the business, never knowing anything different.
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You are so right........Having only been in this business the last 5-6 years, and I consider myself to have good intelligence, these pieces of equipment (Sound equipment), have substanial learning curves.

Part of the blame has to be placed on the Manufactures. The Operation/Installation manuals are written for engineers, not ordinary people. I'm sure there are exceptions to this; but the industry would do itself a favor if it would produce two levels of Operation/Installation manuals. One for the experienced/Engineer types, and one for the rest of us..........
 
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