Help setting up club sound

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C

Ceedubya

New DJ
Feb 12, 2007
121
0
50
Helena (Handbasket) Montana
www.montanaentertainmentdj.com
I was hired to DJ at the one, and only, dance club in Helena last weekend, and have been asked to come back on a fairly regular basis, when not booked for other events.

anyway, The place was recently purchased by the new owners and they are going to run a Friday & Saturday night dance club. They have already made an investment in sound, but unfortunately it was not in the right direction. A local home theatre sound guy sold them a bunch of really nice, really not the right application sound. THey have already blown 3 of the speaker in the 3 weeks since opening.

After working all last weekend, I let them know that they have the wrong system for what they are trying to do. I had to really push the system hard to keep sound levels high enough to even be above the crowd noise, while trying not to blow the thing up, again. I brought in a pair of powered speakers & a powered sub to help get us throught Saturday night.

They now would like me to help them upgrade to a proffessional sound system. While money is not really the issue, they also don't want to spend a fortune, and want to spend on the right things.

So what they currently have is:

a Numark 5000FX 5 channel FX mixer http://www.numark.com/index.html?http://www.numark.com/products/product_view.php?v=overview&n=117

A Yamaha RX-V2700 reciever http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=451511

Socace Sonamp 875DSE to power the Mid/Highs http://custompartners.ownspot.com/upload_user/SONAMP 875DSE brochure.pdf

a Subwoofer management system http://www.velodyne.com/velodyne/products/product.aspx?ID=15&sid=201j637r

Klipsch speakers 4 mid highs & 2 subs
http://www.klipsch.com/products/details/synergy-sub-10.aspx
http://www.klipsch.com/products/details/rb-81.aspx

and a sonos system http://www.sonos.com/landing/all_v2...os&ovtac=ppc&gclid=CJG5u5yigIwCFQRDYQodBk8UwA

The dance floor area is fairly small, sets off the fron of the bar in its own room, that is roughly 25 X 40. The bar area is a long narrow room, where they have 2 more of the klipsch speakers for soun in this area. The problem here is with only two, the sound close to the speakers is overpowering, and you can hardly hear it at the bar when the place is busy. The bar area is ran off of a seperate zone on the amp, and controlled from the zone out on the mixer.

Anyway, they would like to install something more appropriate in the dance area. My thoughts are a couple of powered speakers (i.e. mackie SRM450), powered sub (i.e. mackie SWA1801), use the Numark mixer, and add some signal processing. Also, I brought in my Laptop running VDJ or MixMeister software. So, they want to look at PC options, and probably adding a CD deck.

do you think this is the right direction to take them, or is there better option? What are your thoughts on:

Active Vs. Passive
Mackie Vs. Other (EV, JBL, etc.)
Signal Processing options (DriveRack, etc.)



Thanks!
 
My outlook on portable powered speakers in the EON/SRM-450 category has changed in the past weeks.

A couple of weeks ago, I got to hear an ElectroVoice SxA 250 powered loudspeaker. IMHO, this is the best sounding powered cab I have ever heard, and for only $100 more than the JBL or Mackie definately worth it.

First off, its has a wooden cab, not plastic like the Mackie or JBL, which is already worth the extra $$$. The EV boasts a weight of 49 lbs, that's with a 15" driver and 7-ply plywood, while the Mackie has a 12" driver, and plastic casing. The output is nearly the same, but it is in the real world that the EV shines.

Long story short, a pair of SxA 250's with a SBA760 would kick some serious butt, while the Mackies could start a serious fire. :sqwink:
 
EV is the other direction that I would be interested in. I work for a low voltage security and sound contractor who happens to be an EV distributor. Mostly distributed sound, and some stadium stuff, but I do have access to their complete line. I will definitely give the items you listed a closer look.

Thanks!
 
Calvin, how about a couple Matrix 2000's. Then keep an extra one in the unlikely event of a failure? The satellites are flyable, and the 18" sub pounds. If you wanted to add some bang, throw in a couple B52 Act 18's. Even better?... Ohhh..... Ahhh.... a couple LX-18AV2's. All active, awesome warranty, awesome service, easy install and upgradeable.

http://b52pro.com/models/LX18AV2.html
http://b52pro.com/models/ACT18X_ACT18.html
http://b52pro.com/models/Matrix2000.html

Heck you might even want to throw in one of those new B52 Prodigy units. Dual MP3/CD player with 4 channels, a MILLION bells and whistles.

http://www.prodigyfx.com

Better yet, I have the hook up with the B52 stuff. Gimmie a call..

Groovielou
 
While the B-52 is nice, I doubt it will perform as well as an EV system, or even a Mackie system for that matter.

If the club is interested, I do have a mint condition JBL JRX118sp for sale, $400 + shipping. Would work nicely with Albany AMS pair of EONs.
 
Is this sound configured correctly? Or does it sound out of phase somehow? The goods look ok to me I guess without knowing dimensions of room.
Does it sound good?
Does it need to have to be loud into the bar area? In other words, is the goal to blow everybody out in the place all the time? Or do the owners want to have a place where people want to visit and chat?
What about running a fill to the bar area to keep the vibe alive without overpowering it. Self-powered would be fine for that....

What kind of budget?

I'd run passive:
If its not a huge area,
4 MRX JBL's single 15's for tops
2 Crown XTI 2000's for those
2 18's MRX or SRX series JBL subs (or one dual)
1 Crown XTI 4000 for subs
Maybe an extra amp for backup.
DBX Driverack PA.

Set it and forget it.
 
Since the dance floor area isn't that wide. A pair of Yorkville U15p with two LS 800p subs would be all the power that place will need. It will sound awesome. For the price the Yorkville cabs can't be beat.
 
Yup, passive

jtnichol said:
I'd run passive:
Set it and forget it.
Click to expand...

Absolutely!
Amps with plenty of headroom and let it loaf.

Active amps would not be a serious consideration.
 
As for subwolfer control, as well as overall a "good" sounding system, using a DBX Driverack PA will never be a bad thing, spec the job with amps and speakers listed on their configuration, RTA if necessary, then tweak further to ear, at a recent club installation we did in Southern Louisiana ... after RTA'ing my boss was amazingly surprised that the system did not need to be tweaked much at all!!!

BTW, we installed Crown Amps w/ EAW Avalon Series Subs & Tops and JBL for zone speakers... If really interested I can give a full rundown, check out the photo gallery.

... "if your gonna do something, might as well do it right"
 
jtnichol said:
Is this sound configured correctly? Or does it sound out of phase somehow? The goods look ok to me I guess without knowing dimensions of room.
Does it sound good?
Does it need to have to be loud into the bar area? In other words, is the goal to blow everybody out in the place all the time? Or do the owners want to have a place where people want to visit and chat?
What about running a fill to the bar area to keep the vibe alive without overpowering it. Self-powered would be fine for that....
.
Click to expand...

It sounds horrible in the dance area, as far as I am concerned. They seem to think its OK, but not great.

As far as the bar area, its set up on its own zone, and is just for background music. When the club is at full steam, obviously they want it loud, but not dance loud. The bar is the visit & chat area. The issue is, when it is full, with only two of these speakers in the bar area, its loud close to the speaker, and not loud enough at the bar (the speakers are on the wall opposite the bar). I think the best solution would be to move the Klipsch speakers from the dance area into the bar area, they should work fine for that and would provide additional coverage without having to increase volume.

I have provided the bar with 4 seperate bids, ranging from the Matrix, EV powered's, to a fully passive EV system. I have been very open with them as to the differences, and my concerns with each, especially with the active speakers. It is now in their hands to decide. I will say, that anything I have suggested has got to be a huge improvement over what they have now (I hope).

Thanks all for the replies so far, I will keep you posted.
 
I'd go with JT Nichol's choice, JBL is great, or Ev's.
However I would go with QSC's, I find they give that punch that Crown does not. If you don`t believe me, then hook up a crown, then a QSC without processing, you'll see.
definitley go passive since its a club, nothings really going anywhere, plus you can use the driverack to tune it just perfect for the place.
don`t bother with powered, this way you can "fly" the speakers and control the amps from the DJ Booth.
 
Ceedubya said:
I think the best solution would be to move the Klipsch speakers from the dance area into the bar area, they should work fine for that and would provide additional coverage without having to increase volume.
Click to expand...

I totally agree with this.
Again, what is their budget?
 
Kreation said:
I'd go with JT Nichol's choice, JBL is great, or Ev's.
However I would go with QSC's, I find they give that punch that Crown does not. If you don`t believe me, then hook up a crown, then a QSC without processing, you'll see.
Click to expand...

Ordinarily I would agree.
I have both.

BUT, the Crown XTI series has speaker tunings built in for MRX and SRX series I'm sure. And the DBX driverack has tunings for the amps AND speakers.....(at least I hope DBX has upgraded firmware for the XTI,MRX,SRX)
 
Kreation said:
thanks JT, I didn`t realize you mentioned the XTI models,
you're right, the tunings are built in, this would be great too. I just haven't heard this series of Crowns in action.
Click to expand...

I have heard the XTI 2000 for the dual MRX 15's.....I had to change my underwear.
I heard the XTI 4000 for some off brand subs. Clean, punchy.

Dude, I'm not saying what you said was wrong about QSC. They really do have much "louder" feel to them. I think the crown stuff sounds warmer...Or was it the pee going down my leg?
 
Ok. I just bought up a full EV QRx system (1/2 way done). I heard the QRX 218 sub side-by-side with the SRX728, and to be honest, the 218 smacked the 728 hands down. The output was similar, but the QRx was much tighter, and had better response IMHO. I heard the 212 and the SRX735, but that comparison would be apples to oranges, because the EV box is dually 12's and the JBL box is dually 15's. The EV's are abit more money, but is sounds as if the club has money to spend.

2x QRx 218 subs
2x PLX-3602's

2x QRx 153 (3-way tops)
2x PLX-2502

EV DX38 or DRPA for processing.


........and you can call it a night.
 
cbarronx23 said:
Ok. I just bought up a full EV QRx system (1/2 way done). I heard the QRX 218 sub side-by-side with the SRX728, and to be honest, the 218 smacked the 728 hands down. The output was similar, but the QRx was much tighter, and had better response IMHO. I heard the 212 and the SRX735, but that comparison would be apples to oranges, because the EV box is dually 12's and the JBL box is dually 15's. The EV's are abit more money, but is sounds as if the club has money to spend.

2x QRx 218 subs
2x PLX-3602's

2x QRx 153 (3-way tops)
2x PLX-2502

EV DX38 or DRPA for processing.


........and you can call it a night.
Click to expand...


Gorgeus....
 
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