Short Changing The Client. My Rant!

[ahoustondj]

Last night I stopped in at a neighborhood Bar because they were advertising Karaoke on a Sign by the road. I was in disbelief as to what I saw. Talk about short changing the Client! There were a few people there at the Bar the KJ/DJ was sitting at a table. I went over and talked to him, more so to view his operation.

I kid you not, he was using a Nady wireless Mic, a Behringer Xenyx 505 (5 Channel Line Mixer) a small Laptop (Output from laptop going into "Tape Play" of the Mixer) and 2 JBL Eon Power 15s. Get this, one was on the floor pointed towards the singer and the other was pointed at the audience Blaring. Just to see what he would say I asked him where is his subs, he said that it was not needed for Karaoke. I had to hold back myself from laughing.

My point here is this, he had to have seen someone doing something similar and decided to mimic. I know that Bar owner. That Guy would have been lucky if he got $50.00 for the night. Every time I drop by, there is always someone different. LOL. I am going to stop by again next Monday to see.

I hear that sentiment all the time from a lot of these wannabees that I encounter "Thats all that is needed and it sounds good!" Yeah, right! I try to give my best in both skill and equipment. Even on this board, that sentiment is repeated by some. Do people even stop to realize that when they offer the bare bones minimum
A. That they are making their operation very easy to copy!
B. The Client sees very little so it is no wonder that they want to pay so little!
C. Since the setup is so minimal some Clients expects it to be thrown in for free!
D. That they are butchering the Music!

Personally, I kind of like it. Makes my job a lil bit easier and pay scale a whole lot better.

 

[steve149]

If I was only getting $50, but needed the money, I'm not sure I would have rolled out anything more. If the client saw MORE, would he pay more? Unlikely. The KJ would have had to bring in a bunch more paying customers to make it worth it. Would he get more gigs elsewhere simply because he brought more gear? Unlikely.

Nothing wrong with Eons, nothing wrong with a Behringer mixer (you have one, I've owned several). Haven't heard a Nady wireless, but I don't see anything too tragic with the setup. Yes a stereo set would have provided more sound .. maybe he had it that way and a singer asked for a monitor so he complied. A sub is nice BUT NOT REQUIRED for Karaoke in a small setup (you didn't mention room size so maybe it was).

I don't think he's YOUR competition, but it is what it is and it's not as pitiful as made out to be.

 

[Ausumm]

I would imagine the pay rate was discussed with the owner BEFORE hand,
and the guy probably figured that it wasn't enough money to bring a big system.
(at least not for $50)
And you, yourself, have stated here that DJ's should not offer stuff for free,
and that clients get what they pay for.
(okay, not your words)

 

[ahoustondj]

If I was only getting $50, but needed the money, I'm not sure I would have rolled out anything more. If the client saw MORE, would he pay more? Unlikely. The KJ would have had to bring in a bunch more paying customers to make it worth it. Would he get more gigs elsewhere simply because he brought more gear? Unlikely.

Nothing wrong with Eons, nothing wrong with a Behringer mixer (you have one, I've owned several). Haven't heard a Nady wireless, but I don't see anything too tragic with the setup. Yes a stereo set would have provided more sound .. maybe he had it that way and a singer asked for a monitor so he complied. A sub is nice BUT NOT REQUIRED for Karaoke in a small setup (you didn't mention room size so maybe it was).
I don't think he's YOUR competition, but it is what it is and it's not as pitiful as made out to be.

Couple replies to your comments. I don't expect a client to pay for more Equipment but I do expect a Client to pay for the equipment that is needed. That place holds about 175 people. He was running in Stereo and he always sets up the way he does, according to him, so go figure. Even at a small setup i would still bring at least a 15" sub. Music is music and if it has bass notes its needs to be properly reproduced. The object of Karaoke is to simply replace the original Singer(s) voice(s) with amateur ones. I do not own a Behringer 502. Eons are some of the worst speakers I have heard when run in Full range by themselves. They are very shrill sounding, especially with no processing. Some Club owners are just plain cheap.

I always tell my Club owners that it is their job to bring in the Clients and my job is to provide the Entertainment. I suggest ways and things to do to attract the crowds but in the end the patrons are theirs, not mine. If they want to pay me extra for my time to do advertising and marketing then that is different. Maybe in small cities expecting DJs or KJs to bring in people may apply but I cannot guarantee a Club Owner that friends of mine who live on the South side are going to drive 45-50 miles to the North Side just to come to their Club. The Bars/Clubs need to appeal to those who live in their area. They want them to come back even when I am not there or there is no entertainment. The successful Clubs/Bars understand this reasoning.

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I would imagine the pay rate was discussed with the owner BEFORE hand,
and the guy probably figured that it wasn't enough money to bring a big system.
(at least not for $50)
And you, yourself, have stated here that DJ's should not offer stuff for free,
and that clients get what they pay for.
(okay, not your words)

That is all he had and uses. Trust me I won't be posting this rant based only on assumptions.

 

[Jon Tuck]

if you know this owner and you know he is a total cheap skate he isnt ever going to pay for your elite services and will continue selling to this level of talent. If he keeps his doors open and people jeep coming in he will not change and he will remain open selling his drinks. I dont see the rant for more than a waste of breath. Its kind of like the concert facilities that bring in local acts with small productions versus Kenny Chesney and his extravaganr line array and multiple 100 heads.

 

[ahoustondj]

if you know this owner and you know he is a total cheap skate he isnt ever going to pay for your elite services and will continue selling to this level of talent. If he keeps his doors open and people jeep coming in he will not change and he will remain open selling his drinks. I dont see the rant for more than a waste of breath. Its kind of like the concert facilities that bring in local acts with small productions versus Kenny Chesney and his extravaganr line array and multiple 100 heads.

He is wasting money. He won't last long. The guy before him was the same way and did not last a year. There is never more than a few cars outside this one particular Bar and I tried to tell him that he needs to upgrade his Entertainment Offering. If he was doing a lot of business that would be different. Just as there are a lot of wannabe DJs I guess there are a lot of Wannabe Bars/Clubs, they come and go rather quickly.

 

[rickryan.com]

So Canute, how would YOU bring more value to this bar owner? Yea, I know you're pitch, you don't bring in the biz, but sorry I'm calling hogwash. Any type of gig like this is a form of partnership. You can stick with that line all you want, and go watch other K-jocks who actually do have gigs on Monday nights, or you can roll up your sleeves and help make the arrangement profitable for both of you. I also do find your "must use a sub" rant a bit amusing as well and no, I ain't no stinkin k-jock.

 

[ahoustondj]

So Canute, how would YOU bring more value to this bar owner? Yea, I know you're pitch, you don't bring in the biz, but sorry I'm calling hogwash. Any type of gig like this is a form of partnership. You can stick with that line all you want, and go watch other K-jocks who actually do have gigs on Monday nights, or you can roll up your sleeves and help make the arrangement profitable for both of you. I also do find your "must use a sub" rant a bit amusing as well and no, I ain't no stinkin k-jock.

The inside of the Place is OK. Advertising pays off. I am not in a business partnership with any Bar/Club. Will they pay more if the place is packed, Hell no! So why should I market for free. I know for a fact that when I do Karaoke at these Bars that I command much more money then these other Chaps.

A couple weeks ago I sent in a guy to fill in for me at a Bar for Karaoke. He was very happy because i negotiated for twice as much as he normally gets. The Owner was satisfied because he was paying half as much as he normally would pay me. I know my friend puts on a good show but he does not have the equipment like I do. I am sending him back again on September 1st.

Y'all can let these Club and Bar owners feed you all that BS but it ain't happening with me and some of my other Jocks. If we have to get paid based on head count, then we do our own promotions and either have a Cover Charge and or a Percentage of the Bar Receipts.

BTW Mr. Ryan, sure you don't have to use a sub! Go right ahead and sound like 95% of the other Jocks. I like that very much. It makes my Show so much more outstanding when people come in and hear a much more superior sound.
Mediocre Sound = Mediocre Pay
Higher Quality/Superior Sound = More Money in my pocket.
Know how to sell what you have. Ever heard the phrase (Would you like Fries with that?" LOL

 

[Proformance]

If there were only a few people in there then what is the subwoofer for?

 

[Jon Tuck]

so you lowered your standards and sent in a lesser setup and charged less than your normal fees. way to lowball yourself to keep a venue.

 

[ahoustondj]

If there were only a few people in there then what is the subwoofer for?

What if there were more people? It already sounded bad as it was. The Sub really is not the main issue, by having one speaker pointing towards the audience and one facing backwards while running a stereo feed, he is severly short changing the audience with the sound. There was something missing.
Another answer to your question would be, if you have a Laptop that is working, why have a backup when you go to a Gig?

 

[steve149]

BTW Mr. Ryan, sure you don't have to use a sub! Go right ahead and sound like 95% of the other Jocks. I like that very much. It makes my Show so much more outstanding when people come in and hear a much more superior sound.
Mediocre Sound = Mediocre Pay
Higher Quality/Superior Sound = More Money in my pocket.
Know how to sell what you have. Ever heard the phrase (Would you like Fries with that?" LOL

Sometimes it's Mediocre Pay = Mediocre Sound
and Higher Quality Sound = no more pay

It seems apparent this club's business model is go cheap .. I don't think it's up to the KJ to change that. He gets his $50+tips and looks for a better paying gig in a better bar. Until then, it fills his Monday.

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A couple weeks ago I sent in a guy to fill in for me at a Bar for Karaoke. He was very happy because i negotiated for twice as much as he normally gets. The Owner was satisfied because he was paying half as much as he normally would pay me. I know my friend puts on a good show but he does not have the equipment like I do. I am sending him back again on September 1st.

Oh and be careful .. he may negotiate 75% of what you charge, take the gig and have $$ to buy the equipment. No offense, but it won't take a mortgage to match a pair of scoops and 802s.

 

[ahoustondj]

so you lowered your standards and sent in a lesser setup and charged less than your normal fees. way to lowball yourself to keep a venue.

You do not understand the power of negotiation do you?
let me give you an analogy so you can better comprehend. Let us suppose I have a Client that needs a ride to the Airport every Saturday night and he pays $200.00 for a Ride in one of my best Limos. Then one Saturday I am not available but I have a friend who has a Town Car and recommends that friend to my Client. Do you think it would be fair to charge the Client the same price for a Town Car ride as a Limo ride? Point is that the client is mainly interested in a ride period.

 

[steve149]

You do not understand the power of negotiation do you.
let me give you an analogy so you can better comprehend. Let us suppose I have a Client that needs a ride to the Airport every Saturday night and he pays $200.00 for a Ride in one of my best Limos. Then one Saturday I am not available but I have a friend who has a Town Car and recommends that friend to my Client. Do you think it would be fair to charge the Client the same price for a Town Car ride as a Limo ride? point is that the client is mainly interested in a ride period.

But if the client is merely interested in a ride, then he may stay with the cheaper Town Car going forward instead of your stretch and you lose and your friend gets a new customer. Sort of like the bar owner who merely wants a KJ.

 

[rickryan.com]

BTW Mr. Ryan, sure you don't have to use a sub! Go right ahead and sound like 95% of the other Jocks.

Oh no I won't. I LOATHE karaoke gigs and the bad singers that come to them. I actually just had a contract come in with the rare, karaoke request on it. I quoted them an extra $100 for my "pain and suffering" (no, I didn't put that on the contract). You guys obviously have a much higher tolerance for pain than I do.

 

[ahoustondj]

But if the client is merely interested in a ride, then he may stay with the cheaper Town Car going forward instead of your stretch and you lose and your friend gets a new customer. Sort of like the bar owner who merely wants a KJ.

He can feel free to take that risk and besides which my friend would not stab me in the back.

 

[steve149]

So had sayeth many a stabbed friend ..

 

[Jon Tuck]

Thanks Steve,

Im just stupid and need to be schooled by the all mighty. Keep your narrow mind Canute it is definitely fitting. always the one who knows all. In teaching you must be willing to learn and not put down other thoughts. Unless of course you are Canute the All Mighty. I probably know alot more about Art than you think Canute but its all good carry on. Im doing just fine here. Let me ask a question. Why do you take the Bose Boom box to some events?

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He can feel free to take that risk and besides which my friend would not stab me in the back.

Always an answer.........................
Yeah keep believing that naive mentality.

 

[ahoustondj]

There is much more to a Business, even a DJ Business, than just showing up and giving a performance. One needs to know how to sell, sight unseen. Learn to sell Tangibles (Gear for the Show) as well as Intangibles (Skill and Personality sets).
Gear is like a Rental Product learn to price accordingly, Skill and Personality is something to be measured. be able to deliver as promised. Add the two up and you can demand Top Dollar.

 

[steve149]

There is much more to a Business, even a DJ Business, than just showing up and giving a performance. One needs to know how to sell, sight unseen. Learn to sell Tangibles (Gear for the Show) as well as Intangibles (Skill and Personality sets).
Gear is like a Rental Product learn to price accordingly, Skill and Personality is something to be measured. be able to deliver as promised. Add the two up and you can demand Top Dollar.

No disagreement, but to some, simple money is equally important and if the gig pays $50, it's $50 they didn't have .. and they're going to give $50 worth of effort.