Short Changing The Client. My Rant!

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MIXMASTERMACHOM said:
I don't see what was so terrible with the setup that you mentioned for a bar doing Karaoke. Especially on a Monday. Maybe that DJ has better equipment but decided to use just that for this bar and it is on a Monday night. How much do you really need to impress the people doing karaoke. People are there just looking to sing, have a drink or 2 and have a good laugh. As a lot of people like myself can't sing a lick.

I mean it's not like it's a DJ doing a party in a bar. When i play inside of this one bar in Orange, NJ here is what i bring. The 2 Yamaha DSR powered tops. 15"'s of course. The Denon 6000, my laptop and external HD. That's it. No sub at all. The bar is a small place and you really don't need a sub. I brought both subs in there once before when i played just to see what they would sound like and they kicked butt. I never had to bring them again because the crowd is impressed and like the sound from just the tops. They sit on the floor and they rock.

Now just remember this. You did say it was a Monday night and this KJ is getting $50.00 for the night more then likely. What would you charge if that were you doing it Canute? Keep in mind this is a Monday night and how much do you think a bar owner is willing to pay a KJ for a Monday night? In my eyes not a whole lot. Lastly how many people would you expect you could get to come to this bar on a Monday if that were you doing it?
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Mix, I do not do $50.00 Gigs. I also would not be caught dead using crappy gear for crappy money. I have come too far in this business to stoop so low (This is the way I see it). Being seen like that won't do any good to my image and will hurt chances for future Gigs.

The least that I will charge on a Mon - Thursday night for Karaoke is $200.00 plus free drinks and that is without my scoops, just a single 15" JBL Sub and no Console either. They will also need to have their own screen that I can use for the Singers/audience. It will also have to be in a 5 mile radius of my home.
 
Houston that's great that you can command $200.00 to do karaoke and you never would use crappy gear. Not every DJ can be like you. Did you even find out how long this person has been doing this. This person maybe just starting out and needs the exposure so people will get to know about him.

You wouldn't do it for $50.00 because you don't have to. You've been in the game a long time and obviously people know who you are and what you can do. Also today you now have high quality gear to use. I'll bet it wasn't always like that.

I don't know what the average around here in a bar is for a KJ but I know on average a DJ in a bar Friday and Saturday night get paid $125.00-$150.00.
 
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MIXMASTERMACHOM said:
Houston that's great that you can command $200.00 to do karaoke and you never would use crappy gear. Not every DJ can be like you. Did you even find out how long this person has been doing this. This person maybe just starting out and needs the exposure so people will get to know about him.

You wouldn't do it for $50.00 because you don't have to. You've been in the game a long time and obviously people know who you are and what you can do. Also today you now have high quality gear to use. I'll bet it wasn't always like that.

I don't know what the average around here in a bar is for a KJ but I know on average a DJ in a bar Friday and Saturday night get paid $125.00-$150.00.
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Mix let me update you on a few things as it seems you don't know my background. The home system that I built in 1974 and pre 1974 is a lot better than what some of these guys are now using. It was a three way system. Built it with my own hands, Speakers, Amplifier, Pre-amplifier. When I turned my Hobby (I made money before) into the real business seriously in 1978, I did not skimp, I went out and bought Professional Audio Gear for use in Clubs and larger venues. Again it was a Professional 3 way system. Even today there are some who don't know what a three way system is and don't use one. I still use some of that equipment up to this day. The 2 Bose 802s, 4 JBL Scoops and some other components to name a few.

From 1978 til present, this has been a serious business for me. There is NO EXCUSE for people calling themselves a DJ using crappy gear! When one gets in the business they need to do it correctly or don't do it at all. You can start out small but for cripes sake at least buy good gear and add to it as you go along. Using crappy gear reduces the perceived value and confuses clients into thinking all gear is the same. Would you rather go to a Doctor (Who may be good) using crappy medical equipment that may be questionable or one who is good but has state of the art equipment?

There are several things a DJ has to sell.
First, themselves and why they are a better alternative.
Second, what they use to help make themselves stand out from the pack. This adds value to the mix.
Third, whats in it for the Client. Remember they want the best for themselves and their business, even though some don't want to pay for it.

Sadly when things fail there is a weak link somewhere. Usually it is with the Bar owner. They are not doing their part to improve their Game.
 
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I have had two consecutive four year contracts with two different Clubs. I left the first one for the second. The second one was at a Resort, business was not good when I arrived. I helped to build it with the owner understanding that it is HIS Club not mine. That place was 75 miles from my home one way and I played there every Friday and Saturday. I left in 2008 because we had a breakdown in negotiations over mileage money (Gas was going up and almost $4.00 per Gal in late Spring). We are still friends and his business is still booming.

Here is why those two were successful. They built the business and the customers for themselves. My advice to both was to not let any DJ or Band hold them hostage for patrons. They realized that they had to figure out a way to bring in the people and that is what they both did.

I am presently working with two different Bars here and one of them is following that business model and has already started reaping the benefits. (Our Bars are akin to some clubs in other cities. It is not unusual for a Bar here to have a capacity of 300-400 people)My advice to them is my contribution but I refuse to go out and spend time recruiting new patrons without extra compensation. That would be like throwing in Lighting for free just to get the Gig.
 
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LOL fixed!!!!!!
 
Scott Hanna said:
How did Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin like your system?:)
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Scott,
You forget, Canute was the DJ at the Last Supper, Pontius paid him for the gig :D

Hell, Canute was the first organism to move from water to land :D
 
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I see you're still missing it Canute. I gave you a compliment when i said everyone can't be like you. I hear you about using true professional high grade gear. I believe in using such things too. Yet no matter how great your gear is it will not make you a really good or great DJ.

Something else to consider sir, how much has this great gear you have cost you? As you know such gear isn't cheap. Since last November the gear i bought cost me over 4k. I consider it an investment. It's great gear and an easier setup then what i was using before. What i was using before was also top of the line gear. I just decided to go with power speakers now. I still have one QSC 2450 amp and a pair of Yamaha S215 speakers. I'm keeping this gear even though i haven't used it in a while.

Now i bought a pair of Yamaha DSR 15" tops. One of those with the tax cost me $750.00. My point to this is not everyone can afford to spend that much. Hell i had to get several loans to get the gear i got now.

So you have the right ideal but not everyone can afford what you're talking about. Remember when you go to the store they just don't give this stuff away for free. For me i had to learn the difference between really good gear and what was stuff to just get by with. I learned this as i kept at DJing.

Now on to the bar thing. Is this bar you're talking about a place that people know about? That makes a big difference in a bar getting customers to come there. Do remember you're also talking about Monday night. How many people do you expect to show up to a bar for karaoke on a Monday night? For a lot of people they are just getting back to work after being off for the weekend. They maybe tired and don't feel like going out to a bar. Also do remember you said this owner is paying this KJ $50.00 for the night. So9 what do you expect this owner is supposed to get paying this KJ $50.00. Not a lot in my thoughts.

Normally when it comes to bar gigs it's very rare a DJ/KJ has a long run with one particular bar. My friend that plays in the bar that i play in sometimes up in Orange, NJ has been playing there for over 20 years. I was there the night the owner had his 20 year anniversary. She gave him an extra envelope on top of what he gets paid for the night. His situation is the exception and not the rule.

Another thing to remember most bar owners don't respect what most of us do and will never pay anyone of us for a night what we're really worth. Also with some DJ's undercutting others a bar owner will hire that other DJ so long as they can make the same amount of money and it doesn't cost them business.

Lastly EON's are not all that bad like you say they are. They are a decent speaker that will get the job done nicely. There are other speakers that are a lot of other speakers a whole lot crappier then thos eEON's. Guitar Center sells some junk called ALTO. Pure garbage! I bet if you had a choice between a pair of ALTO speakers and the EON'S, you certainhly would pick the EON's.
 
Update: I had been meaning to post this before today. It had to be no more than three weeks after I made the original Post that the bar closed. I have been noticing that there was no cars outside his place every time I passed there. I talked to someone and found out people had stopped going because the entertainment was lousy.
 
ahoustondj said:
I talked to someone and found out people had stopped going because the entertainment was lousy.
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I would think there are several reasons for the closing, not just the entertainment.
It's obvious this guy was not very good at the bar business, and was not very smart with his money.
 
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Next time take pics - say you want to hire him and wanna see what he has to show others

I might have to do that soon with a few we have here, its all a joke the way some operate!!
 
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ahoustondj said:
Update: I had been meaning to post this before today. It had to be no more than three weeks after I made the original Post that the bar closed. I have been noticing that there was no cars outside his place every time I passed there. I talked to someone and found out people had stopped going because the entertainment was lousy.
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I'm going to assume that more than just the entertainment was lousy.

If he pays $50 for entertainment, he probably paid no one to clean the bathrooms, or clean the place, paid minimum wage for a cook and got minimum food quality. The bartenders probably weren't that good because there was no tips to be made, so the only ones that would work there were the worst ones.

He probably didn't see any value in marketing the place or his presentation when people got there.

But yes, it was the the DJ's fault they closed:)
 
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Scott Hanna said:
I'm going to assume that more than just the entertainment was lousy.

If he pays $50 for entertainment, he probably paid no one to clean the bathrooms, or clean the place, paid minimum wage for a cook and got minimum food quality. The bartenders probably weren't that good because there was no tips to be made, so the only ones that would work there were the worst ones.

He probably didn't see any value in marketing the place or his presentation when people got there.

But yes, it was the the DJ's fault they closed:)
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The Place was fine. This new owner did a few renovations after the previous owner and made some additions. His ownership took place in June. However, he did not advertise or market his place of business. He was depending on DJ/KJ to fill his club. I did one production there in July and that was the only time the place was full of people. He did not want to pay me the kind of money I was seeking for future Events so I never went back.

I told him when he first opened that it was his job to get the people and that it was the Entertainer's job to entertain and attract more people. I even said to him "Show me a Club Owner who is dependent on the Entertainer to bring in people and fill the Club and I will show you a Club Owner who will be out of business in less than a year." It happened.
 
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ahoustondj said:
The Place was fine. This new owner did a few renovations after the previous owner and made some additions. His ownership took place in June. However, he did not advertise or market his place of business. He was depending on DJ/KJ to fill his club. I did one production there in July and that was the only time the place was full of people. He did not want to pay me the kind of money I was seeking for future Events so I never went back.

I told him when he first opened that it was his job to get the people and that it was the Entertainer's job to entertain and attract more people. I even said to him "Show me a Club Owner who is dependent on the Entertainer to bring in people and fill the Club and I will show you a Club Owner who will be out of business in less than a year." It happened.
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Like I said, his marketing plan sucked. Depending on $50 djs to bring in crowds....not the DJs fault.

If he wouldn't have short changed his guests, he might have had a chance.
 
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Canute may i ask how much were you looking to charge this owner for you to be the entertainment there? I agree that is supposed to be the owner/ mangers job to get the people there and your job to keep them there. In turn for you to keep them coming back and bring more people with them when they come.
 
I believe that it is the Responsibility of both the owner AND the DJ to promote the show. I have an ad in our local paper to advertise my business and when I have a DJ/Karaoke show coming up I place the time and location in that ad. I also place the event on our Facebook page as well as send out an email blast to everyone that has signed up to receive emails. I also put up fliers at some of the local markets, dinners, and c-stores.
 
MIXMASTERMACHOM said:
Canute may i ask how much were you looking to charge this owner for you to be the entertainment there? I agree that is supposed to be the owner/ mangers job to get the people there and your job to keep them there. In turn for you to keep them coming back and bring more people with them when they come.
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The place is exactly one mile from my home. I charged him a Bargain Price for a weekly show per night of any night Monday - Thursdays of $300.00 per night. It is a real easy load in and Load out. Plus all the Video, Projector and AC connections are right by my Booth setup area.

DJCC said:
I believe that it is the Responsibility of both the owner AND the DJ to promote the show. I have an ad in our local paper to advertise my business and when I have a DJ/Karaoke show coming up I place the time and location in that ad. I also place the event on our Facebook page as well as send out an email blast to everyone that has signed up to receive emails. I also put up fliers at some of the local markets, dinners, and c-stores.
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I agree. I also Promote my Shows too but I won't hold sole responsibility for bringing people there. That is Marketing/Promotions and Advertising which requires extra time. I don't work for free.
 
ahoustondj said:
The place is exactly one mile from my home. I charged him a Bargain Price for a weekly show per night of any night Monday - Thursdays of $300.00 per night. It is a real easy load in and Load out. Plus all the Video, Projector and AC connections are right by my Booth setup area.

I agree. I also Promote my Shows too but I won't hold sole responsibility for bringing people there. That is Marketing/Promotions and Advertising which requires extra time. I don't work for free.
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I'm glad you can get $300.00 a night from Monday to Thursday to be a KJ in a bar. Around here that will more then likely get you looking for a place to do your thing. Most bars around here won't pay $300.00. They really don't have to because of the competition. It's not hard to find someone willing to do it for much less.

The other thing is this. I get that this is what you charge. That's great. No problem with that. The thing is if this bar didn't have a lot of customers coming to the bar, then how would they be able to afford paying you $300.00 for a weekly show? I know that's not your problem but the owners issue. You need to make what you need to make. Some owners just don't get it that having the right entertainment in a place can make all the difference in the world from the place being a big success to the doors closing. Sometimes for good.

Some just don't know how to manage a bar/club. Some places you don't need to do much advertising of the place and others especially one that's just getting started may need a ton of advertising to get people to know about the place. I do agree that this bar just didn't close because of a KJ in this place that wasn't that good on a Monday night. How was the bar doing the rest of the week? What else was the owner doing the rest of the week to get people to come to this bar and spend money? It's not just that people come to the bar but that they are drinking customers.

You say $300.00 is a bargain? I say that would mean they would to need to make at least 1k each night you're there to be able to afford that price. So what would have been your non bargain price?
 
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A Limo and a Car are both Motor Vehicles. They will both get you from point to point. However, you can't expect to rent a Limo for the price of a car. I have confidence in what I do, my show and the quality of gear that I use. The greater majority of KJs in my area use a Laptop, 4 channel Mic mixer, a cheap wired mic and two powered 12" two way speakers. They are lucky to get $100.00.

When I roll in with my gear and they see and hear the difference, they have to pay up. Of course, if people don't know what entertainment is happening that night, nobody may come. That is not my problem. Sooner or later they may realize that they are not making enough money to afford me so we will go our separate ways.

I sometimes do Country Clubs during the week and the fee is about 3 times what I would charge the club for Karaoke.
 
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