So the latest prediction for the CD is:
- Thread starter DJ PAUL
- Start date
Quality is no longer the issue. We've simply reached a point where no matter how much better it gets it's redundant.
I thought cassette tapes sounded like crap yet, for a long time before CDs they were the preferred format of consumers - outselling records, and initailly outselling CDs as well.
It's ALWAYS benn about convenience and the ability to play (order) the music the way you want to hear it (playlists). That principle dates all the way back to record changers and the 45rpm. It's what made jukeboxes popular, and spawned this whole DJ industry. Once electronics got smaller convenience meant portability as well.
I'm certain CDs will eventually fall back to an archive format for non-mainstream content simply because they are seriously lacking in portability and convenience when compared to digital files. You can't change the order of songs on a CD without a programmable CD player - a feature now considered to cumbersome by most people compared to an iPod.
I thought cassette tapes sounded like crap yet, for a long time before CDs they were the preferred format of consumers - outselling records, and initailly outselling CDs as well.
It's ALWAYS benn about convenience and the ability to play (order) the music the way you want to hear it (playlists). That principle dates all the way back to record changers and the 45rpm. It's what made jukeboxes popular, and spawned this whole DJ industry. Once electronics got smaller convenience meant portability as well.
I'm certain CDs will eventually fall back to an archive format for non-mainstream content simply because they are seriously lacking in portability and convenience when compared to digital files. You can't change the order of songs on a CD without a programmable CD player - a feature now considered to cumbersome by most people compared to an iPod.
You may be right for others - but quality does matter to me. I aim for the highest quality I can possibly get with whatever media I have available.
Sorta depends on your application, IMHO.
If you have a nice quiet room, you can discern the difference in speaker cables. The man cave on The Farm was an almost ideal place to test equipment -- not so much so here in the apartment complex.
Just when you think you have it quiet enough to do a cable A/B, Haleem's upstairs start doing the horizontal bop, Wii, test a suicide vest, or whatever they do!
DJ work? Who cares, use the cheap zip cord and MP3's. The people on the dance floor, or chatting at tables, are not going to be able to tell the difference.
That's commendable and when I listen for my own purposes, I want the best too.
However, Bob makes a great point. The general public doesn't care as much as we do. If you played things side by side to any group and took a poll, they would hear the difference. However, that isn't the case. Without direct comparison, most folks wouldn't know the difference or care. My event sound is very good, but I skip a lot of popular (DJ) steps to be compact, convenient and affordable (which is more beneficial to me these days). It would pale to more expanded systems, but that's a mute point when the room is packed with people in party mode. You would have to have some pretty rank sound for people to stand there and hold their ears.
If I were getting complaints instead of compliments, I would change up and in turn I would most likely have to raise my rates to compensate. As it stands, I would be wrong to charge my clients more for what they would never know is missing.
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I still don't believe, given at least adequate construction, there is ANY (not one iota) of difference between a $20 cable and a $2000 one, unless one is just constructed wrong. I've seen some cable designs that are an LRC nightmare due to dielectric choice, weave pattern, etc., but if you pair a decent monster cable at $1 per foot to one of the AudioQuest, MIT Music Hose, etc. cables, there has been no (read zero) objective tests showing superiority.
...and what you derive for that is personal enjoyment or pride. Your appreciation of the "specs" simply doesn't transfer meaningfully onto anyone else. Audiophile sound quality is simply not one of the goals at most events. People just want to have a good time with no discernible issues.
Everyone notices crappy sound but, anything beyond "good" and it's no longer nickel vs dime: it simply operates to the same end result. I give the toll taker a dull quarter and you give him a shiny one...which is better?
I'll agree to disagree on this one...
I threw out the Monster cable (actually, I left it in NY, and my brother threw it out) -- it didn't sound good, and the quality sorta sucked.
Remember, this is in a listening room, not a DJ gig.
The Chinese cables I'm using now, are awesome quality, and have great tonality. The SonicWave's are fairly neutral, and the regular Dayton cables are about the same as the Monster, but have better shielding, so they seem to pick up less noise.
Which may have other root causes independent of the electrical specs.
My personal experience with monster cable (perhaps outdated now) was that it was prone to premature oxidation. The finely stranded conductors, braid/twist design, and insulation permits too much air and moisture. Monster cable simply needed to be replaced way to often.
My very own personal experience, I get compliments from my sound all the time. Young and old, dance to jazz, rock to classical. Some people have made it a piont to come up and comment me saying it sounds so crystal clear. I use no EQ other than whats on my players. BUT!!!!!!! God forbid I play Jesse's Girl by Frigg'n Aye and not Rick Springfield!!! LOL.
Paul
I know .. I was referring to a listening room. I did this a few times with people who swore there was a difference. There just isn't any scientific principle that backs up the claims many manufactures make. Yes there is some skin effect at high frequencies, but that's in the GHz range, not in the range that would affect what we hear. As mentioned, a particular cable could have a problem (corrosion, strand breakage, incomplete mechanical coupling, aged dielectric) that can be physically measured. But one just can't hear the difference between an electrical sound waveform running down copper, silver, gold, up, down, spiraled, whatever, so unless someone can show some electrical measurement of superiority, there is no sound impact by the cable, unless the previous one sucked or the new one is introducing a new distortion. It's all resistance, capacitance and inductance.
So I guess we disagree on this one.
I'll heartily agree with three points already made
1- unless it sucks, most people don't know GOOD from GREAT, cause they have no comparison
2- we ALL strive for the best sound we can get. but convenience is sometimes more important
3- quality gear sounds great sitting in one spot in our house, but in our job, it's gotta hold up to the rigors of the road, or it'll fail, and then NO ONE hears the great sounds
1- unless it sucks, most people don't know GOOD from GREAT, cause they have no comparison
2- we ALL strive for the best sound we can get. but convenience is sometimes more important
3- quality gear sounds great sitting in one spot in our house, but in our job, it's gotta hold up to the rigors of the road, or it'll fail, and then NO ONE hears the great sounds
I look for pragmatic, realistic good .. as good as I can make it given the situation, surroundings and gear available. I don't try for good enough, unless that's the best I can do.
The missing link in this discussion is the mystery of human hearing. You perceive music within a range from clear to having some level of distortion. Most people can't hear the difference between phase cancellation, time smear, early & late reflections, room resonances, driver compression, etc. it's just distortion. That said, how would anyone know the difference between what media source or cables are being used unless it adds some type of audible distortion. Any testing would have to be double blind with levels being set with extremely accurate test equipment. In most instances your brain tricks you into thinking that a slightly louder music source sounds better. People that sell sound equipment for a living know this very well. They will typically have the volume level just lightly higher on the higher profit marking product when you do an A-B listening test. If there is no distortion difference, you think the louder source sounds better. If there is a slight distortion difference the louder source may still sound better!
Have you ever been somewhere and thought the sound system was a little off, but after you sit in the same place listening to the same type of music at the same volume level you may notice that it stopped sounding bad? Your perception of hearing changed, adapting to what you were hearing. The opposite can and does occur where what originally sounded OK, starts to sound bad. This can be caused by the music being too loud, but it is typically only certain frequencies which are annoying making the sound almost painful. This is where it really makes the difference between what people consider smooth sounding speakers versus harsh sounding speakers. This is where the person who takes the time to understand the human perception of sound knows how to adjust speaker placement and how to use an EQ to minimize the harsh frequencies making it sound good for a longer period of time. In fact, if you are really good you can cut some of the midrange frequencies involved in speech intelligibility leaving the overall volume level rather high for people to dance, but also allow people to talk and hear each other over the music.
Sorry for the stream of consciousness, but I hope makes sense and is somehow related to the discussion.
Have you ever been somewhere and thought the sound system was a little off, but after you sit in the same place listening to the same type of music at the same volume level you may notice that it stopped sounding bad? Your perception of hearing changed, adapting to what you were hearing. The opposite can and does occur where what originally sounded OK, starts to sound bad. This can be caused by the music being too loud, but it is typically only certain frequencies which are annoying making the sound almost painful. This is where it really makes the difference between what people consider smooth sounding speakers versus harsh sounding speakers. This is where the person who takes the time to understand the human perception of sound knows how to adjust speaker placement and how to use an EQ to minimize the harsh frequencies making it sound good for a longer period of time. In fact, if you are really good you can cut some of the midrange frequencies involved in speech intelligibility leaving the overall volume level rather high for people to dance, but also allow people to talk and hear each other over the music.
Sorry for the stream of consciousness, but I hope makes sense and is somehow related to the discussion.
DjDennis
RIP- My Dad (2011), Sister (2013) and Mum (2017)
as I have always said in a club or party situation where you cant hear your self think
the guests and public cant tell if your using Tapes, Reel to Reel, Vinyl, CDs, MP3's or whatever format
at home YES but in a loud environment not on your life
dont believe me I have put the challange out there for years but no ones Game enough
I have already done it locally I know what happens
thats why others cant because they have no idea how to!
have a nice day....
the guests and public cant tell if your using Tapes, Reel to Reel, Vinyl, CDs, MP3's or whatever format
at home YES but in a loud environment not on your life
dont believe me I have put the challange out there for years but no ones Game enough
I have already done it locally I know what happens
thats why others cant because they have no idea how to!
have a nice day....
You want a set of the Chinese ICBM tubes...? I still think there's a few available, and they sound sweet...
You want a set of the Chinese ICBM tubes...? I still think there's a few available, and they sound sweet...
Too much rumble and boom for my liking.
back on topic. I suspect that the CD will remain a cylindrical shaped object and will eventually be moved to the same archived shelving unit as the vinyl and cassettes. Following those all which many have replaced with modern technology.