Fair warning boys, be careful when you use the live-X EVs outdoors

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Scott Harris said:
Are you really sending sending a full range signal to both the active tops and the sub amp or did you forget to list the crossover? I strongly suggest that you use a crossover. This will remove the low bass from the active speakers which could solve your overheating issue and make the system sound much cleaner.
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Scott, no. The Denon has a built-in crossover. High to tops (xlr cable) and lows to subs (balanced 1/4" to amp). I'm crossing at about 150hz.
 
Rick - with this set up, I believe that you are still running "full range" to the top.....According to the Denon manual, the frequency adjustment button is simply a low pass filter....It doesn't affect what's going out via xlr to the tops (like a true crossover). You're crossing quite high for the sub as well....(I cross at about 110 hz)
 
Steve LeBlanc said:
I think there are plenty of powered boxes that can stand the heat...and some not so much. I've run my FBT's outside in 90 degree heat ( sunlight)for a ceremony...with no issues. That being said that was for 30 minutes at low volumes....I would never think of running full or near full volumes out in the oppen, just like you passive guys wouldn't sit your amp rack in direct sunlight.

Houston - once again, you are wrong....You DON't and shouldn't need any processing (other than perhaps a crossover) at all with a powered rig...That may be the source of many issues folks are having with powered rigs... You have no idea what you are talking about. Read Below.

Houston, Fred...you talk about dj's not wanting to pay the price when it comes to gear...With all due respect; Carvin, to me isn't exactly high end...and Houston; don't you run Behringer, CV or Peavey...I'm sure all you're gear isn't "high end" either.. The Main Components are! Ashly, Mackie, JBL, EV, Crown, DBX want some more?

Rather than re-hash meaningless, beaten to death opinions (dj's with powered boxes wear them like headphones)...which adds absolutely nothing to the discussion; the real issue, as Fred points out is research and buying the right gear for the requirements.
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Again this shows your ignorance for Sound Engineering. Do you know what a Powered speaker really is? Let me enlighten you, it is simply a speaker and a matched amp placed together in one cabinet for convenience purposes. They were also designed to solve the problems that lots of DJs have......namely.....How to marry the Proper Amp to a Speaker.

You run a DJ rig and I run a Live Sound rig. That is like Elementary School Vs College. My Stage monitor for Karaoke is Peavey (Powered), I do have a Peavey Amp that is Bridged to run one of my scoops when I need that configuration. My Mixer is Beringer and its job is to combine all the Incoming Sources so i can send one Master Pair to my Mackie Mixer (Live Sound). That is where the transition from DJ Sound to Live Sound begins.

No one speaker system will be the ideal fit for each and every venue because of the unique acoustical challenges it may encounter. This is why there are processing gear such as EQs, Limiters, Gates, reverbs etc.

But how would you know, all you do is Weddings where when you arrive they send you to a corner where you only have the space for two speakers and a Walmart Laptop.

If one goes to a venue that has a lot of echo how in the hell would you attenuate the sound from a powered speaker without processing? There are processing and then there are effects, I will let you try and figure out the difference.

In the meantime Steve, you should begin by reading this Book: http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/understanding-active-and-passive-speakers.html

http://www.sweetwater.com/shop/live-sound/pa-speakers/buying-guide.php
 
Steve LeBlanc said:
Rick - with this set up, I believe that you are still running "full range" to the top.....According to the Denon manual, the frequency adjustment button is simply a low pass filter....It doesn't affect what's going out via xlr to the tops (like a true crossover). You're crossing quite high for the sub as well....(I cross at about 110 hz)
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Thanks Steve and SVO, hadn't even realized it (been using the powered tops in "sub" mode). ugh.
 
Rick,
If you really want to run a true Two Way Crossover System I would recommend all Passive speakers. With that kind of configuration there won't be conflict and or redundancy in the chain between Crossover network, amp and transducer. Because powered speakers have internal filters/crossover of their own, any signal sent to them will encounter additional processing.
If you must use Powered speakers, especially for tops, I would use them as Full range and then just add a Sub for additional bass. An External Crossover will not be necessary. You have two options for this Sub.
1. Send an equal full range signal to the powered sub and dial in an appropriate crossover/filter point on that powered sub
2. Use a passive sub and an amp with DSP processing. Dial in the crossover point on the amp and voila, the passive sub will get the low notes it desires.

True Electronic Two/Three and Four Way systems use raw speakers/cabinets that are void of any internal filters/crossovers. The External Active Crossover then does all the filtering for the speakers. This is the system I use. The music spectrum is more pronounced, easily tailored and sound a lot better.
 
Scott Harris said:
Are you really sending sending a full range signal to both the active tops and the sub amp or did you forget to list the crossover? I strongly suggest that you use a crossover. This will remove the low bass from the active speakers which could solve your overheating issue and make the system sound much cleaner.
Click to expand...
Scott, I believe that either way can work. When one is using just two speakers on stands, one usually sends the full range signal to them. If additional bass is required, then one can either add a sub or change the configuration to two way as you suggest to include a crossover and sub. It is how both are connected and configured is what matters. I have seen many DJs use tops full range and then add a sub with great results. It is just a matter of choice.
By the way, I am NOT saying your advise was incorrect. It can work too. What these guys need is simplicity.
 
Why would you want to send full range (especially low end) to a top...when you have a sub. That defeats the purpose of the sub.....That makes absolutely no sense at all....Yes it will work.....Using a boombox at a corporae event will work too. That doesn't mean it's the right way to do it.

I run a true 2 way (actually 3 way as there is biamplification inherently) powered system. I don't think there's any conflict and/or redundancy...Have you experienced that in your powered set up?
 
Steve LeBlanc said:
Why would you want to send full range (especially low end) to a top...
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Because full range signals is what it was designed to reproduce. You minimize the enclosed woofer if you eliminate the low frequencies going to the cabinet. You can ADD MORE bass if needed with a sub.

Steve LeBlanc said:
I run a true 2 way (actually 3 way as there is biamplification inherently) powered system. I don't think there's any conflict and/or redundancy...
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You say you have a true active 3 way system. Answer me these four questions concerning that system.
Do you have an active three way crossover?
sending
A. High signal (Only) to a dedicated amp to tweeters only?
B. Mids signal (Only) to a dedicated amp to Midrange Speakers only?
C. Low Bass signals (Only) to a dedicated amp to Bass Speakers only?
It is ok for A & B to be in one cabinet bi amped.
 
Steve, I agree that Carvin isn't touring grade. That said, it is upper-end for DJ use; it's marketed to mid-grade live sound.

We've been running the Carvin rig since 2000... in some very hostile environments at times at full tilt for hours on end. The heated air coming from the lows amp fan could heat your sammich, lol. It has never given an issue, no matter how hard we push it. And we have pushed it pretty hard over the years.

Love 'em or hate 'em, Carvin doesn't inflate specs nor overrate their products. Or they didn't back then, anyhow. I haven't kept up with the newer lines. If Carvin posted a spec, you could believe it was accurate. And the gear does what Carvin said it will do.

We researched and read user reviews on this equipment before purchase. Reviews from musicians and soundmen were all positive.

That's why went with it. It has never let us down, not once. :)
 
ahoustondj said:
Because full range signals is what it was designed to reproduce. You minimize the enclosed woofer if you eliminate the low frequencies going to the cabinet. You can ADD MORE bass if needed with a sub.
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And your Bose boombox wasn't designed to be used in a professional environment....

Simply put....running full range into my 10 inch tops isn't really feasable at 90% of my events.

I wouldn't run a boombox at any event I do. I wouldn't run my 310A's full range...They simply can't put out the low end needed, hence the sub. Adding the sub takes strain off the tops and allows for a much better overall tone and sound. Allows me to go louder/cleaner as well....

I think it's common sense.....
 
Canute,
Using the external crossover will not cause the world to implode. Sending the full range signal while using the sub will also overdrive the speaker and may cause overheating issues.. If you set the crossover at 100-110 Hz it will reduce stress on the tops as itwon't need to reproduce anything under that therefore the amp will not run harder as these frequencies are simply not reproduced. The peavey passive subs Rick is using will reproduce the low level signals from the crossover which feeds the IPR amp so things will sound nice and full.
 
Not sure if you boys saw it but I got a call from an EV rep today. Very nice guy (Mike) and very helpful. Bottom line, he's given me an address and I'm sending them the power amp out of those boxes for repair. If I understood correctly, some of the earliest boxes had an issue with the safety cutoff being set to too low a temp. They're going to fix them. Couldn't have been better timing as next weekend is my only weekend without a gig for quite a while to come. It was really encouraging to see a manufacturer proactively address and issue like this.
 
Rick,
Just get the crossover, trust me it will make a huge difference.
 
So what was the verdict?? was he running them full range, in the sun, and using a sub too?? because if that's the case then i'm thinking the title of this thread isn't very fair to EV, or any speaker mfg at all....
 
LOL, Fred.... as I have been to the Ac show several times, I can attest to the "professional" DJ's who buy $89 and $99 speakers. And buy 4, 6, 8 at a time..... I guess you need that many when you buy disposable speakers.
 
DJ SVO said:
Canute,
Using the external crossover will not cause the world to implode. Sending the full range signal while using the sub will also overdrive the speaker and may cause overheating issues.. If you set the crossover at 100-110 Hz it will reduce stress on the tops as itwon't need to reproduce anything under that therefore the amp will not run harder as these frequencies are simply not reproduced. The peavey passive subs Rick is using will reproduce the low level signals from the crossover which feeds the IPR amp so things will sound nice and full.
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DJ SVO said:
Rick,
Just get the crossover, trust me it will make a huge difference.
Click to expand...
I posted what I did because it can be cofigured either way. He did not have a Crossover so that is why I gave him the other option. This is no different to someone using a two way powered speaker system with a 15" without subs. You still have to give the cabinet full range, right!
Problem is that on an active external crossover, if the user does not know what the frequency settings are for their system they can end up screwing up things too. I have seen it happen. Remember, these guys want to lessen their load and have as little equipment as possible.
I never stated that what you posted was wrong.
 
Steve LeBlanc said:
And your Bose boombox wasn't designed to be used in a professional environment....

Simply put....running full range into my 10 inch tops isn't really feasable at 90% of my events.

I wouldn't run a boombox at any event I do. I wouldn't run my 310A's full range...They simply can't put out the low end needed, hence the sub. Adding the sub takes strain off the tops and allows for a much better overall tone and sound. Allows me to go louder/cleaner as well....

I think it's common sense.....
Click to expand...

My "so called Boombox" Bose AWM cost me $1,050.00 without the mike and rents out at $150.00 per pop. You can snicker all you want but I am laughing all the way to the bank!

Know what FBT stands for? Fools Buy Trash! :tribiggrin:

I am still waiting for your answers from my questions above, either put up or shut up.
 
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