How much do I need to charge...

[Flyingdjdan]

Perhaps explain why the person you describe as "feeding on bottom scraps" constitutes such a burden to professional DJs? What do you think should ideally be done about it?

It would also be necessary then, given the nature of DJing to know how it is you distinguish the avid consumer of entertainment electronics (potential clients) from the "bottom feeder" ? How is your solution going to be received by the consumer?

Perhaps start a new thread with your ideas?

Judging by your and others postings, there is no effect of unscrupulous dj's. They either don't exist, or are nothing to worry about. Therefore why discuss something that is irrevelant to the successful operation of a dj business? (lets get back to the important stuff, like American Idol).

However, I do find postings in some other threads comments about dj's undercutting and performing substandard at events costing some dj's clients. Also dj's losing income and having pricing dificulties (getting past rates or rasing rates). Why is that?

I guess this is due to poor management decisions on their part. Right?

Ps, If I did have the magic answer to ridding the dj industry of the "non existent problem", I'd be able to shop sax fifth as many other business entities would be interested in that solution. (nah, Wal mart's service and quality rule!)

While most have lost the intent of the Walmart vs Kmart post, I thought it was awesome! Nice work Dude Walker!

The "walmart effect" will have serious consequences to the world. Some can see it, some will not and it'll slap em in the head. Someday...

Didn't wal-mart make large headways into the "hearts" of America some time ago with the big "BUY AMERICAN" "WE SAVE AMERICAN JOBS" campaign???

I bet you would be hard pressed to go thru the store to find many products that ARE MADE IN USA.

Guess that don't matter. The price is what counts.

right dj's? It's the price?

 

[Proformance]

However, I do find postings in some other threads comments about dj's undercutting and performing substandard at events costing some dj's clients. Also dj's losing income and having pricing dificulties (getting past rates or rasing rates). Why is that?

Because it is always quicker and easier to blame someone else rather than take a hard look at our own mistakes, miscalculations, and misconceptions.

All of the things you cite can be true. But that doesn't mean there is a causal link between them, or that they are all symptoms of the same disease.

Kmart failed because Kmart failed to anticipate consumer preferences.
Rubbermaid lost it's Walmart account because they over-estimated their product position.
Part of your success is a matter of how well you can prepare for tomorrow.

 

[Flyingdjdan]

Performance.

I do not disagree in any way that more and more Americans, let alone dj's need to take more responsibility for their own actions. Look inside yourself first for the biggest problem to be answered! I strongly admire that you can!

I do not agree with you in the "thought" that outside forces have little to no effect on my business, or any other business for that matter. There are many, many things that I have absolutely NO control over that do have impact. Sometimes major, sometimes minor, but do impact.

I guess we'll just have to "agree" and "disagree".

Cool.

 

[Fred Wright]

... As the late John Candy said, "you'd have better luck trying to play pick-up sticks with your buttcheeks.

Or herd cats.

I recently attended an in-house seminar at work. The presenter is our plant manager and an incredible speaker. We attendees learned a great deal about marketing Playtex products in general... and dealing with Wally-Mart in particular. Wal-Mart is our largest customer.

Here is what I found fascinating about Wal-Mart: Those end-of-aisle displays ~ the ones that are in plain view of all store traffic ~ are prime retail real estate. They are also very exclusive and expensive. I'm not at liberty to post the amount Playtex pays to place product in these exclusive areas but I can say that, if it doesn't move within a set amount of time, Wal-Mart pulls the product and the space. If this happens, the supplier won't get that space back for another year or longer. The waiting list for this prime space is unreal. That's how Wally-Mart does things.

Warehousing space is another bugbear with Wal-Mart. This why much of what's sold is smaller stuff ~ it doesn't take up a lot of storage space. Sam's was the answer to that one.

When I worked at Sunroc, we had some decent contracts with Sam's and Wal-Mart for bottle water coolers. They'd order from 800 to 1,200 coolers at a time. Again, our biggest customer. Then Wal-Mart decided to contract with manufacturers in Malasia and China for coolers. There went four production lines and over 100 jobs at Sunroc.

Hirsch went through much the same. Hirsch makes those cheapie filing cabinets and shelving you see in some retail outlets. Wal-Mart and Sam's promised Hirsch an exclusive contract for filing cabs and shelving. We could crank out a cab every seven seconds and the warehouse started filling. Unfortunately, the product didn't move as fast as Wal-Mart and Sam's thought it should so they cancelled the contract. More layoffs.

I'm not knocking Wal-Mart... it's a business like any other. The primary reason for any business to exist is to make money for its owners. The goal is to exceed 100% every year to keep the stock price up.

I just wonder how the board of directors at Wal-Mart can so easily turn a blind eye to putting Jane and Joe Lunchbox in the unemployment lines when Jane and Joe are the ones who made 'em the biggest in the first place.

When better-paying manufacturing jobs disappear, the high-dollar weddings and parties go with them.

 

[Flyingdjdan]

Fred,

Your comments need more that a "thank you"!

That is the problem I see with corp America today. Cheaper and profits are the mantra.

How long can products sell when no one has a "job" that earns a true liveable wage? How long can parties happen when there is little to no "spendable" income other than the bare necessities?

Hang on, isn't that what this thread was origionally about? Getting to a liveable wage? Hey, we went full circle!

 

[Proformance]

I just wonder how the board of directors at Wal-Mart can so easily turn a blind eye to putting Jane and Joe Lunchbox in the unemployment lines when Jane and Joe are the ones who made 'em the biggest in the first place.

I would disagree that Jane and Joe are the ones who made Walmart the biggest. It is the strict and careful measuring of the wholesale buyers at Walmart who did that.

Fred,

I read your stories, and in each case you clearly indicated that there was a problem with the product - it didn't move.

Walmart is a retailer not a museum. Their mission is to stock merchandise that moves. They cannot make money warehousing or collecting stuff.

John and Jane Doe have to build something that moves. Their fate ultimately rests with the management of their own company to tweak products, or seek appropriate distributors.

 

[Flyingdjdan]

Performance,

Is it possible that the product may continually "move" thru the shelves because the quality of the product sucks, therefore must continually be replaced?

Where as a quality product does not?

We now live in a disposable society. Products made so cheaply that they must be replaced rather than the old days, when they could be fixed!

What proof do I have? I drive a truck and haul garbage to the dump every day. The disposed products will amaze you!

 

[Dude Walker]

Rubbermaid was a moving item.

Wal-Mart refused to "allow" a wholesale price increase to defray costs on a product that they could not produce cheaper on American soil.

Curiously, no USA company was able to produce the product cheaper on American soil.

Rubbermaid was replaced by a product from a technologically advanced 3rd world country that is able to UNDER-produce product at the expense of American jobs.

That is no different than an established legitmate MDJ company having to compete with a brand new or naive MDJ company with no accumen of how to establish price other than by beating the next MDJs price.

A far cry from being a museum.


Dan,

Now that's priceless. Let's see ignorance argue that.

{crinkling, beep beep beep, whirrr.....................*ding*, crunching popcorn}

 

[DJMC]

I don't really think Rubbermaid was replaced. It is clearly a better quality product, far superior to Sterilite. They're not as good as Tupperware, but their stuff is top-rack dishwasher safe, and the lids fit snugly after 10 years of use, on most of the Rubbermaid stuff.

Sterilite is one step above Glad Disposables. The reason people stopped buying Rubbermaid is because of DISPOSABLES. They are driving the food storage industry right now.

Walmart can get away with selling Sterilite because their customers are stupid or ignorant to the quality difference.

We should be focusing our attention on Starbucks:

STARBUCKS is a company that has thrived by selling an inferior product at an inflated price. They have actually increased the price of coffee in general, which has made ALL of the coffee industry thrive.

Before Starbucks, you could buy a cup of coffee for as little as 25 cents most places!

Now, the standard price of a cup of coffee is $1.50.

Consumer Reports recently did a taste testing on coffees, and found that the McDonald's coffee was better than Starbucks.

Point being, you can charge a premium price for something if the consumer is willing to pay for it!

 

[Guest]

Matt,

Indeed Rubbermaid is still available, may not be at walmart but it is available if it is what you want to buy.

You can't buy it at Sterlite prices but you can get it none the less.

Sort of blows the BS arguement of Sterlite destroying the market all to pieces doesn't it!

Now if Rubbermaid raises it's prices to a level where it just doesn't make sense to the consumer to purchase it then the only thing Rubbermaid can do is try to "educate" the consumer on how worthless Sterlite and other containers are.

Of course the fact is for most consumers both of them are just boxes they are going to store stuff in, they both have a given size so they will hold a given amount of material.

 

[Jeff Romard]

Rubbermaid was a moving item.

Wal-Mart refused to "allow" a wholesale price increase to defray costs on a product that they could not produce cheaper on American soil.

Well mabye rubbermaid should have made a consignment agreement like most small suppliers are forced to do with Walmart. When we sell it we will pay you for it. A sensiable business decesion for both parties would be to have Rubbermade and Sterelite both stocked and see what sells the cheap or the expensive with quality

Isnt that how the free market works the strong will survive

And Walmarts only responsiability is to thier investors not to Rubbermaid, RCA or anyone else its thier job to keep themselves in business not keep everyone in business

What kind of car do you drive Dude? What brand gear do you run? what brand TV do you have at home? Where is the shirt you are wearing made?

Do you own anything that is not made in the USA? Why did you buy that item?

Awaiting your awnser with baited breath

 

[Flyingdjdan]

Or, maybe Rubbermaid paid the price because a bunch of chicken s*** companies won't...

They tried to stand up for a fair price vs cost of a product. Attempting to KEEP JOBS IN AMERICA.

Unlike a bunch of other companies that are bowing to the big bully. Pushing jobs overseas.

Hmmm.

Jeff
I do try to buy and maybe pay more for American made. It isn't always possible.

I do not shop at walmart unless I can't justify the cost of going to another somewhat farther town to buy stuff. Boy, I have fun in there with the "MADE IN USA" mantra, and "where is this product line"

Just last week wife and I went in there for a gallon of milk. (we were in the area). Looked for specific brand of candy made at easter by Brachs. Brachs brand wasn't in there at all. I said loudly, with a clerk nearby...

MAYBE BRACH"S DECIDED NOT TO KISS WALMARTS BUTT!

I love it!

 

[Jeff Romard]

Im not a big fan of Walmarts practices either Dan but the fact remains that they cater to the average person and they do what the average person does look for the best prices

As is the case with most of our clients. Truly there is very little difference between what most of us here do. Some are more technically advanced, Some are more interactive, some use small speakers, some use large speakers but in the end we are there to play the music

So what makes a DJ in a $500 market feel he is worth $1500?

I always use the Gas analogy. If you and I are running gas stations across the street from each other I charge $2.00/gallon and you charge $3.00/gallon in a short period of time either you are going out of business from lack of business or I am from selling below or too close to cost. You can say this is different because its a service based business but try to explain this to a bride who is trying to skrimp a few bucks. Most clients see the price tag

Sure if you are popular and run a largely referral based business you can charge more than average and get it but there is a point where you will alienate clients. You got to find that fine line

It always amuses me to hear a high priced DJ complain about the "bottom feeders". The fact remains if the "bottom feeders" are hurting them then the client dosent see thier worth and if thats the case either they are doing a poor job of selling or they just arent worth as much as they think they are

 

[Jeff Romard]

Heres one to ponder....

Mabye the DJs that are charging 3 times the market average are the ones that are causing brides to have do it your self weddings

Off to bed with me

 

[Flyingdjdan]

Jeff,

Great "arguments", need new topic and thread...

 

[Dude Walker]

Rubbermaid was a moving item.

Wal-Mart refused to "allow" a wholesale price increase to defray costs on a product that they could not produce cheaper on American soil.

Well mabye rubbermaid should have made a consignment agreement like most small suppliers are forced to do with Walmart. When we sell it we will pay you for it. A sensiable business decesion for both parties would be to have Rubbermade and Sterelite both stocked and see what sells the cheap or the expensive with quality

Isnt that how the free market works the strong will survive

Jeff,

Hmmm....

Maybe MDJs should consign their dances until the client can afford to pay well after the "product" has been delivered.

Perhaps employees in every work situation wouldn't mind having their checks held until payment has been received...?

And Walmarts only responsiability is to thier investors not to Rubbermaid, RCA or anyone else its thier job to keep themselves in business not keep everyone in business

I disagree.

Wal-Mart has a responsibility to America. What they did to Rubbermaid and others in ethically wrong.

The catalyst to Rubbermaid's situation was a spike in Resin initiated by high oil prices...not mismanagement.

Had Wal-Mart taken a less Anti-American approach and simple passed on the price increase to the consumer. The consumer would have had a choice to choose whether or not to by Rubbermaid. Perhaps the "public" would have paid the higher price, had it been passed along, and supported Rubbermaid.

Main Entry: dic·ta·tor
Pronunciation: 'dik-"tA-t&r, dik-'
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin, from dictare
1 a : a person granted absolute emergency power; especially : one appointed by the senate of ancient Rome b : one holding complete autocratic control c : one ruling absolutely and often oppressively
2 : one that dictates

What kind of car do you drive Dude? What brand gear do you run? what brand TV do you have at home? Where is the shirt you are wearing made?

Do you own anything that is not made in the USA? Why did you buy that item?

Awaiting your awnser with baited breath

Company Fleet: FORD, all assembled on American soil.
Personal Car: Buick Park Avenue, assemble in Orion, Michigan
Tractor: John Deer, assembled in Waterloo, IA
Lawn Mower: Murray, assembled in Lawrenceburg, Tennessee
TV: Magnavox, USA

Gear: Peavey - Meridian, Mississippi & JBL - Los Angeles, CA

Shirt: Made in USA
Pants: Made in USA

To answer your baited question of hypocrisy.

I make a conscious effort to purchase American products, whenever possible.

Yes, I do own non-USA products. In most cases it was a purchase where no other USA product was available or my choice was taken away by circumstances beyond my control.


To the heart of the matter.

My company is American bred. My focus is American bred. Why? Because I'm an American and I believe in doing what is right and just to protect the American worker whenever possible. If that means turning up the heat on people trying to cheat America...so be it!

It always amuses me to hear a high priced DJ complain about the "bottom feeders". The fact remains if the "bottom feeders" are hurting them then the client dosent see thier worth and if thats the case either they are doing a poor job of selling or they just arent worth as much as they think they are

Doubtful...

I talked to bride early in the day on Friday and we set up a time to do a contract consultation.

She liked everything we offered and heard good things about us.

In her calling around she discovered a DJ that offered 6 hrs for $300.

She called me back and asked me if I would match the price.

I told her verbatim:

Dude: Thank you for calling us back, unfortunately I cannot match their price any better than they can match our quality and service. Please keep in mind, a statement of price is the owners belief in what they are truly worth. With that price, they are admitting what their value really is. - LONG PAUSE -

Are we still on for our meeting Tuesday evening?

Caller: Yes

10 minutes later

Caller: Hi, I just talked to you a few minutes ago. My fiance' said that you need to do better on you price or we'll have to make other arrangements.

Dude: Could you define better?

Caller: Here, let me have you talk to my fiance.

Fiance: Yeah, who's this?

Dude: Dude Walker

Fiance: Yeah, we've been calling around and we really like what you have to offer, but you need to do better on your price.

Dude: Could you define better?

Fiance: Yeah, well we were thinking that you if you could match the other guys price we'd go with you.

Dude: What price is that?

Fiance: $300

Dude: How many DJs did you call?

Fiance: Well I'm not real sure, we just started calling around to get prices.

Dude: What prices type of price have you been getting?

Fiance: Well got a couple of real high quotes like around $900, a few for around $500, one for $450 and this guy out of Wahpeton for $300.

Dude: I would be more than happy to match the $900 contract.

Fiance: Huh?

Dude: I would be more than happy to match a credible quote. The $900 quote seems fair.

Fiance: Uh...we were hoping you could meet the $300 quote.

Dude: I'm sorry, $300 is less than when we opened our doors in the 80s. Listen, this is your wedding. There no way a $300 DJ will even come close to the service that we offer.

Fiance: Well, how come they can give us a price of $300? They said you'd try and price gouge us.

Dude: Thank you for your call. I can assume that our meeting for Tuesday is off?

Fiance: Why can't you guys bend a little on price.

Dude: $100 is bending a little. What your asking is simply not realistic. Thank you for considering us. Have a good day.


Y'see Jeff, the moronic dolt that undervalues himself, undervalues everyone above him. I know of the DJ in question and he's a POS! He get his gigs because he's cheap. Your sarcastic inferences of quality is goofy. These client were most likely going to pay the lowest price anyway. If the $300 DJ weren't there...perhaps the $450 and $500 DJs wouldn't have lost gigs either.

Low Price = Worthless

Heres one to ponder....

Mabye the DJs that are charging 3 times the market average are the ones that are causing brides to have do it your self weddings

R.i.g.h.t...! { chuckle }

Sort of blows the BS arguement of Sterlite destroying the market all to pieces doesn't it!

Steve, wow...!

Get a grip on reality. Rubbermaid's situation was/is a factual event. Manufacturing facilities did close with job losses in the thousands.

I cannot help how you mis-interpret obvious things...and that's not BS.

 

[BKSound]

These client were most likely going to pay the lowest price anyway. If the $300 DJ weren't there...

Dude, this is where you lose me. The $300 DJ will always be there. No amount of protest or wringing of hands is going to change that. If you choose to compete with him, then yes, you risk being undervalued. I tell people right up front, if they are looking for the cheapest deal or just want a 200-300 dollar DJ I'll supply them with a whole list of local DJs who work for that price.

Most of them are glad to have the referral and they find themselves a $300 human jukebox and I never hear from them. Then there are the ones who do their homework and actually value quality entertainment, and they come back to me to see what I offer. These people are my clients, and there are plenty of them. Right up front it lets them know that the $300 guy isn't my competitor.

It's like treating them as if they are a customer looking for baked goods and you only sell ice cream. The type of consumer I want is the one who does a little homework and realizes that since they are putting on an ice cream social and they want it to be successful, they really should be buying ice cream for the event and not baked goods.

If that conversation was verbatim, then it was a very ineffective sales approach. Just saying that they cannot match your level of service doesn't really mean much. Everybody believes their service is the best. They can hear that from any DJ. If I was going to waste my time with price shoppers like that, I would at least take the time to explain specifics of the differences. But at that point you are acknowledging them as competitors and the devaluation of your own service commences.

Of course out here in the real world I have learned to identify price shoppers fairly quickly, and if I believed that they would "go with the cheapest anyway" I would have just supplied them with my list of $300 weekend cowboys and driven on.

 

[Jeff Romard]

Jeff,

Hmmm....

Maybe MDJs should consign their dances until the client can afford to pay well after the "product" has been delivered.

Perhaps employees in every work situation wouldn't mind having their checks held until payment has been received...?

Walmart has this consignment agreement with many a small supplier. They have bankrupted many of them too by this policy the fact remains its thier store you want to get in to so you play by thier rules

.

Wal-Mart has a responsibility to America. What they did to Rubbermaid and others in ethically wrong.

The catalyst to Rubbermaid's situation was a spike in Resin initiated by high oil prices...not mismanagement.

Had Wal-Mart taken a less Anti-American approach and simple passed on the price increase to the consumer. The consumer would have had a choice to choose whether or not to by Rubbermaid. Perhaps the "public" would have paid the higher price, had it been passed along, and supported Rubbermaid

So basically you are saying that its Walmarts responsibility to make sure that Rubbermaid and others stay profitable while all the time sacrificing thier own bottom line? Thats a very socialist approach from a die hard capitalist. Or mabye the capitalisim only comes in to play when you are on the collecting end

Where do you think the employees of Rubbermaid shop? Tiffanys? I doubt it. Most would be like the average person and look for the best price. Why would they expect others would do different

If Rubbermaid is that popular then they shouldnt have a hard time selling no matter what store they are in and if thats true the layoffs were a bull**** excuse and blamed on Walmart........

Or the other side mabye they werent as popular as they think they are

Yes, I do own non-USA products. In most cases it was a purchase where no other USA product was available or my choice was taken away by circumstances beyond my control.

Thats good to hear you should always try to support your own first when its possible

Y'see Jeff, the moronic dolt that undervalues himself, undervalues everyone above him. I know of the DJ in question and he's a POS! He get his gigs because he's cheap. Your sarcastic inferences of quality is goofy. These client were most likely going to pay the lowest price anyway. If the $300 DJ weren't there...perhaps the $450 and $500 DJs wouldn't have lost gigs either.

I would have advised her to get a contract and references from this guy. Sometimes people need visuals to make them see the difference in price and value

If the $300 DJ wasnt there you would be complaining about the $450 or $500 DJ. Its an ongoing thing everybody will always be someone elses Bottom Feeder (unless you are Peter Merry)

So from what I get from this

Fiance: Well got a couple of real high quotes like around $900, a few for around $500, one for $450 and this guy out of Wahpeton for $300

The average in your market is about $700

Dude: $100 is bending a little. What your asking is simply not realistic

And from this you charge about $1000

What makes you worth $300 more than the market average?

How can the $300 guy prodouce a show and put it out for that price when your costs are much higher in the same market

By your own valition there are quite a few managing by between $300 and $900

 

[Dude Walker]

BKSound,

As for the phone call(s): The sales approach was made during the first call. They were compelled to call back. That would infer that value was noticed. The caller just had unrealistic expectations created by the $300 DJ that are financially not possible.

I think the comment of price gouging is the most telling. The $300 DJ couldn't sell value, so he sells doubt. Doubt is a powerful tactic. It becomes the best means of creating controversy in the publics mind.

At some point, financially, the $300 DJ will need to become a higher priced DJ. Simply due to production costs...if they a coherent enough to acknowledge the costs.

This is also the arguable point.

Refusing to acknowledge costs does not mean that costs don't exist.

"Watch the pennies and the dollars will take care of themselves." - Benjamin Franklin

The refusal to acknowledge ancillary production costs is just a self induced mind fog used by non-business entities to cope with their inadequacies.

For instance:

It is generally agreed that any company must promote itself to encourage sales. Although every company may approach their marketing differently, generally speaking, a percentage of production costs must be assigned to the contract.

Over a 15 year period 1990-2005 my company has spent $2,278,299 producing 6430 performances. That is an average production cost of $354.32 per show. I have compared that number against other credible businesses, similar in operation and the result is fairly consistent for the same time period. Keep in mind, the last 5 years 2000-20005 all exceeded the 15 year average.

Budget Breakdown:

1990-2005 Advertising: 7.84%

Last 5 year period {2000-2005} Advertising: 7.72%

So basically you are saying that its Walmarts responsibility to make sure that Rubbermaid and others stay profitable while all the time sacrificing thier own bottom line?

No...

I am saying that Wal-Mart, a company that enjoys the freedoms of America, has a duty to foster a conducive environment for Americans to earn a liveable wage to inturn purchase products that strengthens America's economy.

What makes you worth $300 more than the market average?

23+ years of experience with proven track records of ethical business operation.

If Rubbermaid is that popular then they shouldnt have a hard time selling no matter what store they are in and if thats true the layoffs were a bull**** excuse and blamed on Walmart........

Not true. When Wal-Mart decimates a supply network forcing other smaller retailers to close their doors, becoming the major gateway for the product, popularity becomes secondary.


Do a little fact finding before you call BS on something...

How can the $300 guy prodouce a show and put it out for that price when your costs are much higher in the same market

Because they support their hobbies by working other jobs. They do not support their business operations solely on their event contracts. They are non-legit.

 

[JoeChartreuse]

Company Fleet: FORD, all assembled on American soil.
Personal Car: Buick Park Avenue, assemble in Orion, Michigan
Tractor: John Deer, assembled in Waterloo, IA
Lawn Mower: Murray, assembled in Lawrenceburg, Tennessee
TV: Magnavox, USA

Gear: Peavey - Meridian, Mississippi & JBL - Los Angeles, CA

I make a conscious effort to purchase American products, whenever possible.

Not a yay or nay in the debate, just some info: I am involved in the electronic distribution industry. The key word is ASSEMBLED here. ALL of the above buy parts from overseas, rather than from US companies. ALL of them. As a matter of fact Peavey is one of my customers. They buy their high end audio resistors ( tight temp. coefficient-low noise) from a Japanese company ( who incidentally sub-contracts to a Chinese company), intead of those manufactured here in the US ( Precision Resistive Products, Precision Resistor, etc...). Their switches are made in Germany by Marquardt. Capacitors from Japan and Switzerland......


As for Magnavox: The only assembly is the finished one. ALL components, CRT/displays, and FINISHED PC boards for ALL currently manufactured TVs are made overseas.

I own a Saturn ( plant in US ) but I can't think of a SINGLE US automaker that doesn't include less expensive parts made overseas...

Nobody buys American because it's no longer possible On top of that, we are no longer anywhere near the top tech innovators anymore. No new tech since the early 90s (cells) starts here. We now import second generation from overseas ( like hybrid cars)....