How much do I need to charge...

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One couldn’t tell by this ½ page YP ad that there are two major players represented here advertising in this media form for a client base. You’ll have to look to the lower left to see the MDJ service in which I speak of.

I think after 18 pages, it’s pretty clear we have among us a well-versed and highly intelligent man. I don’t offer the compliment just for the compliments sake. It’s there because of how Dude proofed his listing prior to print. One doesn’t list “Walker’s” first without trying to be last or late in the list. This calculated move set Mr. Walker in a position to obtain an economic climate reading of this whole region.

This also means, if a price-shopper isn’t getting “dirt-cheap” as a reply to “HowMuchAreYa?” by the time they get to his listing, there going to call him. He’s also going to get the last of the callers that waited until the last minute to call for availability.

Those two qualifiers set the tone for how I’d feel about him “selling” to a local customer. He’s not “Selling” down here. In reality, he’s doing his part to educate. If one’s not thrilled with how you perceive his presentation tactic, I request you read into the underlying “why it’s done” versus the surface level of “how it’s done.”

Fargo is 577 miles away. There is barely a chance he’d be performing in this region, yet his presence is here in the phone book that sits in my kitchen. I am sure he gets calls for around here. I am pretty sure he’s not actively trying to book here, unless he finds a client that will cover his costs (and I strictly infer to ALL costs – production and client absorbed).

From 577 miles away, in a region that is fairly unrealistic he’d perform in, he’s stimulating our own economy…

…by being brutally honest.
 
Dude Walker said:
At some point, financially, the $300 DJ will need to become a higher priced DJ.
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Or get out of the business because he isn't good enough to be anything more than a $300 DJ, and another $300 DJ will pop up to take his place. Or keep doing it as a hobby and not care if he loses money as long as he is having fun playing DJ on the weekends.

You are trying to battle against market forces that you cannot win. You can no more keep $300 DJs from throwing their hat in the ring than you can force people to pay for something they see no value in.

We are selling something intangible here. The perceived quality is just that, perceived by the consumer. You set your rate and you find people that perceive your worth. The moment you start trying to compare yourself to someone who is selling something entirely different than you are is when devaluation begins. If you make it cut and dried that you are not selling the same thing as the $300 DJ right from the getgo, no devaluation exists. The other guy has apples for sale at $300. I don't have better apples for sale for a thousand. I am selling oranges. You want apples, talk to the $300 apple guy down the street.
 
BKSound,

I can live with losing the "good fight"...

I cannot, however, live without fighting it.



I also find it ironic that when "others" are claiming they are just as good, they offer it for less and suggest that higher rates are price gouging.

There was a local radio station that outright stated that if you are paying more than "X", you're being taken advantage of. Actual words from the radio ad. They also indicated that their packages started around $250 for weddings. There is not one DJ in my market that didn't feel the impact of those ads.

The really crass thing is if and when another DJ would run an ad, the radio station would place ads in the same hour.

Not that a radio station has more DJing abilities...however, they possess a certain position of media credibility in dissemination of information. When people give little regard to details, the most popular sound bite is the one compelling the decisions.

Artificially restricting the top end...forces a bottom end.



Ken, you make me blush...


JoeChartreuse, it would be embarrassing to tell you how old the TV is...:sqwink:

Thank you for understanding and illustrating the greater underlying situation.
 
Dude Walker said:
I can live with losing the "good fight"...

I cannot, however, live without fighting it.
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Your tenacity is admirable. I don't think your chances for success are very high, unfortunately.


Dude Walker said:
I also find it ironic that when "others" are claiming they are just as good, they offer it for less and suggest that higher rates are price gouging.
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I don't find that so much ironic, as perfectly natural. I am sure there are Ponderosa managers out there who believe they sell a decent steak.

Dude Walker said:
There was a local radio station that outright stated that if you are paying more than "X", you're being taken advantage of. Actual words from the radio ad.

They also indicated that their packages started around $250 for weddings. There is not one DJ in my market that didn't feel the impact of those ads.
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What sort of impact was felt? This goes on all the time. "If you didn't buy your car from XXXXX, you paid too much." Consumers are not just blithering idiots who fall for every emotional appeal that comes down the tube. Admittedly some do, but those are not my clients anyway. The swanky restaurant down the road selling 8 dollar burgers does not suffer because McDonald's advertises 99 cent cheeseburgers.


Dude Walker said:
The really crass thing is if and when another DJ would run an ad, the radio station would place ads in the same hour.
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This goes back to my earlier point. Why would a DJ try to counter their ad like that? All that does is acknowledge the radio station as a competitor, thus devaluing their own service. They have only themselves to blame for trying to compete with someone selling apples and not oranges.

Dude Walker said:
Not that a radio station has more DJing abilities...however, they possess a certain position of media credibility in dissemination of information. When people give little regard to details
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People who give little regard to details are not my clients.

Dude Walker said:
Artificially restricting the top end...forces a bottom end.
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You would have a point here if you are comparing apples and apples. How does restricting the cost of apples affect a guy in the orange business? This is exactly the point I am trying to make. The guy selling $250 wedding packages is not selling the same product I am. He is selling a cookie-cutter drive-thru human jukebox service. I have reception entertainment for sale. To suggest that consumers do not know the difference is fair in one sense and wrong in another, and the differences between those two consumers is what creates a market for both human jukeboxes and reception entertainers.

You will only risk devaluation if you claim to sell a better human jukebox service than the $250 dollar guy. If you put yourself in the same category, then you can only blame yourself for acknowledging the guy as your competitor. Distinctions have to be made. You have to distinguish your business from those selling a different product than you, and you also have to distinguish your market from the other guys' market.
 
BKSound said:
What sort of impact was felt?
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16% downturn in bookings.

56% increase in price shopping calls.

-167 day change in lead time before event. People have been waiting longer, holding out for a last minute deal.

More or less a lemming affect.

Rather than being confident with rates... in essence a "sky is falling" reaction took place. Many companies tried to abate prices. Ended up with total performance numbers equal to or less event than the prior year. Tragically, those that reacted and lowered their rates did not increase their bookings and netted less revenue overall.

We have roughly 1,083 weddings in our immediate market. The price attack campaign caused a resentment in the core of the potential clients towards higher prices.

The last ads ran over 2 years ago, yet our market is dispelling the dis-information disseminated by the ads.



BKSound said:
You would have a point here if you are comparing apples and apples. How does restricting the cost of apples affect a guy in the orange business? This is exactly the point I am trying to make.
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You may know the difference...

I may know the difference...

Getting the client to understand the difference, while they are being bombarded with dis-information is the challenge.
 
Dude Walker said:
Tragically, those that reacted and lowered their rates did not increase their bookings and netted less revenue overall.
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That supports my point that trying to sell a "better apple" rather than a completely different "orange" will not work.

Dude Walker said:
You may know the difference...

I may know the difference...

Getting the client to understand the difference, while they are being bombarded with dis-information is the challenge.
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This is exactly my point. I want the consumers who are smart enough to know the difference already, as my time is more wisely spent improving the service I offer them, rather than wasting time trying to educate consumers who aren't going to "get it" anyway.

It comes down to choices. There are a finite number of consumers in any given market who "get it" and those consumers will only support a finite number of DJs. That is when you either improve and compete successfully for that business, or you look into Amway or woodcrafts. Success is not guaranteed to anybody. Many will fail. The third alternative is to acknowledge the cookie cutters and try to dook it out with them on their own turf, which was obviously the most popular alternative in the situation you described.
 
Dude Walker said:
I am saying that Wal-Mart, a company that enjoys the freedoms of America, has a duty to foster a conducive environment for Americans to earn a liveable wage to inturn purchase products that strengthens America's economy.
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Sort of like all the other major corporations do huh. You would be hard pressed to find any major corporation that really worries about the American economy before thier own bottom line

Mabye Walmart should buy and stock 50 American made vehicles in each of thier parking lots just to see if they will sell. I mean really the boys are in trouble and Walmart has lots of money isnt that thier responsibility to come to the rescue there too?

But then they would be accused of running the car dealers out of business

Dude Walker said:
Not true. When Wal-Mart decimates a supply network forcing other smaller retailers to close their doors, becoming the major gateway for the product, popularity becomes secondary.


Do a little fact finding before you call BS on something
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Have you not heard of Kmart? Target? Winners? Home Depot? Walmart isnt the only player in the game just the biggest. If they cant sell thier product there then thier is a larger problem.

When Walmart was busy decimating the supply chain where was Rubbermaid. Did they run to the aid of the Mom and Pop operation? Wouldnt that be the Patriotic thing to do? Nope they were busy selling thier product to Walmart

Guilt by association

Dude Walker said:
Because they support their hobbies by working other jobs. They do not support their business operations solely on their event contracts. They are non-legit.
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Mabye they do.....
 
Jeff Romard said:
Sort of like all the other major corporations do huh. You would be hard pressed to find any major corporation that really worries about the American economy before thier own bottom line

Mabye Walmart should buy and stock 50 American made vehicles in each of thier parking lots just to see if they will sell. I mean really the boys are in trouble and Walmart has lots of money isnt that thier responsibility to come to the rescue there too?

But then they would be accused of running the car dealers out of business
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Jeff, does that make it right?

Customers are voting themselves into a 2nd & 3rd world corner. Customers want things cheaper...so to keep it cheaper....production jobs are taken away...and sent to workforces that will work for pennies a day. The jobs that give the American customer the ability to purchase the products...inturn, increases the need for a newer, cheaper product.

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When major corporations, which include the upper 1% of the wealthiest Americans increase their net worth at the expense of the middle class and the at or below poverty level population, the cycle begins. Middle class and down represent the largest client base for MDJs. When these class clients earn less, they have less to work with, driving a desire that encourages lower rates. MDJs, being largely represented in the middle class and down feel compelled to keep rates low, or to let inflation outpace their rates and find supplemental employment to subsidize their business operations.

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Futility is not an excuse. The next time that any MDJ is driving to their other job to support their business operations...hopefully they realize that this scenario just shouldn't need to be.

Share of capital income earned by top 1% and bottom 80%, 1979-2003 (From Shapiro & Friedman, 2006.)
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Jeff Romard said:
When Walmart was busy decimating the supply chain where was Rubbermaid. Did they run to the aid of the Mom and Pop operation? Wouldnt that be the Patriotic thing to do? Nope they were busy selling thier product to Walmart
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Wal-Mart forced MOM & POP out by constricting product availability and volume price point sales. (Example) Christmas 2005, XM radios were pretty much unavailable via wholesale supplier. Yet, they were selling them lower than wholesale cost. If a MOM & POP operation were lucky enough to have obtained XM product, they lost on the sales end.

BTW, where was Rubbermaid? It was on the shelves in MOM & POP stores.

Wal-Mart, during it's expansion, pushed the American product and the idea of creating American jobs. People felt good about buying American. Wal-Mart has squandered that trust...with America and many of it's employees.
 
Holy batdung batman!

I new the "rich" numbers were high, but 84% by 20%...

As Earl Pitts says:

WAKE UP AMERICA!

On second thought. Not my problem. I still am (barely) able to pay my bills, and pay for the (leaky) roof over my head.

All is good. :sqwink:
 
BTW, where was Rubbermaid? It was on the shelves in MOM & POP stores.
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Rubbermaid was busy expanding and counting the money they were going to get from Walmart. Then they got greedy and decided hey we are the best so we can get XX number of dollars for our product.

When that didn't happen they took the hit. Now on the other hand if they could have gotten the other producers to raise the price of their product, then they would have had a better chance of staying in business!

Perhaps if they had taken a different approach they could have made that happen. Just think if they had gone to the other manufacturers and said......

1. Look your products are worth a whole lot more than you are charging, get what you are worth.

2. Or they could have put out books or DVDs telling the consumer, look if you aren't paying XX dollars for a product it is trash, and you are an ignorant consumer.

Just maybe they wouldn't be in the pickle jar.

OPPS number 2 above, actually they did that ad and it didn't work!
 
Steve Miller said:
Rubbermaid was busy expanding and counting the money they were going to get from Walmart.
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Steve, are you sure about that? I didn't realize that you were on Rubbermaid board of directors.

Steve Miller said:
Then they got greedy and decided hey we are the best so we can get XX number of dollars for our product.
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Would that be the same type of greed that low priced MDJs use trying to book more dances in hopes of cornering a finite market? Only to find out that by consistently offering low rates they have made themselves gainfully under-employed?

Greed comes in all forms. Vilifying it does little to prove a sarcastic point.
 
Dude Walker said:
Steve, are you sure about that? I didn't realize that you were on Rubbermaid board of directors.
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Uh well hello! Dude you are the one who has stated Walmart destroyed Rubbermaid. My point is who really destroyed Rubbermaid? By the way I assume from your points that you are on the Rubbermaid Board of Directors!

Dude Walker said:
Would that be the same type of greed that low priced MDJs use trying to book more dances in hopes of cornering a finite market? Only to find out that by consistently offering low rates they have made themselves gainfully under-employed?
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Who says they are under-employed? So far the only ones who appear to be saying that are those pushing the worth agenda and not even all of those I guess we can narrow that down a bit to, uh just you!

Would you think that a $500 DJ has a fuller calendar than a $5000 DJ?

Dude Walker said:
Greed comes in all forms. Vilifying it does little to prove a sarcastic point.
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You are correct sir!
 
I tend to agree that Wal-Mart didn't put Rubbermaid nor Sunroc out of business. If people aren't buying what you make, why not make things that people will buy? Instead of bitching about the Chinese competition, find out what they're doing and do it better.

Proformance mentioned this earlier. Retail store space isn't museum space. I agree. If a product isn't moving, why keep it on the shelves? If consumers aren't buying it, why continue to make it?

In the case of Sunroc, they had the opportunity to change over to products that people would buy. They just didn't do it. They went three consecutive years with piss-poor bottle cooler sales while bitching about foreign competition. In the end, the board of directors got tired of losing money on a 250,000 square foot manufacturing plant and sold out to Oasis. This didn't have to happen... and it shouldn't have happened.

A water cooler is a rudimentary refrigeration unit. So is a window air conditioner. So is a dehumidifier. In the midst of hot, humid weather in summer, people are buying window air conditioners. They're not buying water coolers. Sunroc could have changed over to building window air conditioners. They didn't.

I do feel that, by being the biggest, Wal-Mart has the ability to decide what is marketed to the masses and what is not. This is a great deal of power to wield.
 
Steve Miller Post #193 said:
By the way I do 50 $10,000 gigs a year! How many do you do?
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Steve, are you just being facetious or are you speaking with a forked tongue or is this a split personality thing?

Hmmm, 50 x $10,000 = $500,000 yet you claim to have grossed only $122,000 earlier in this thread...

Isn't that called tax evasion?

Let's step into the OTDJ time machine just to make sure: {....click...whirrr-swoosh...}

Steve Miller Post #98 said:
268 approximate because I didn't feel like going back through the calendar and counting again my hard copies are at my tax mans office.
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Steve Miller Post #87 said:
I grossed $122,000 last year from DJ, karaoke and rentals, I don't have the net yet because my taxes aren't done yet, but looking at the year before I should end up with a taxable income of around $80,000.
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Steve, in your own words...

Steve Miller Post #133 said:
You are so full of it!
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Dude,

You have to understand my production expenses!

By the time I buy every book, DVD and tape on how to DJ!

Well you know how it is your production cost are high too.

Of course buying a YP ad in every phone book in a four state area is expensive also.
 
You are so full of it!
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Why would you say that I have confessed that I am a high end DJ and even explained why I was against teaching all the Scum DJs how to get more money.

Now because you find out I am a $10,000 DJ you think I am full of it?

Come on Dude, all that other stuff was just a smoke screen I agree with you 100%.
 
Steve Miller said:
Steve Miller said:
You are so full of it!
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:plane: Why would you say that I have confessed that I am a high end DJ
:plane:and even explained why I was against teaching all the Scum DJs how to get more money.

:plane: Now because you find out I am a $10,000 DJ you think I am full of it?

:plane: Come on Dude, all that other stuff was just a smoke screen I agree with you 100%.
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Steve, it appears that you are intentionally manipulating the line between fact and fiction for personal amusement.

Steve Miller said:
You have to understand my production expenses!
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I would love to understand your production costs. However, you've not been forthcoming.

Once again, let's step into the OTDJ time machine just to be sure: {....click...whirrr-swoosh...}


ODJT Time Machine said:
Steve Miller post #117 said:
I don't know what insight I can add as my production cost is everything related to my business right down to the staples and thumb tacks I use.

Why don't you share your numbers with us and what your overall average production cost is per year per gig? That way we can compare the basics between a large multi-op versus a small multi-op versus a single-op.
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Dude Walker post #118 said:
Steve,...You're on!
How shall we best proceed?
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Steve Miller post #121 said:
First, I have been through this before in past years and it isn't worth all the typing for me. Second, my books for last year are at my tax accountant's office right now, so anything I put down woild be guesstamations from memory instead of actual numbers. Third, the bottom line from my tax returns wouldn't do much good as they include my business, my wifes business, my wifes income and our combined rental property income and deductions.
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Dude Walker post #123 said:
How far back do your records go?
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Steve Miller post #124 said:
All records back to 1976. biggest problem is where they were stored for about 12 years, had some water and animal damage too many of the boxes.

Old barn LOL
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Dude Walker post #126 said:
Steve, no big rush...but do you think you could find the 1995 return?
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Steve Miller post #127 said:
I could if I wanted to dig deep enough.

But why would I even want to find it?
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I love this part....

















wait....














here it comes....














the trying to change the subject "thingy"...














ODJT Time Machine said:
Steve Miller post #130 said:
Dude,

You sure type a lot without saying anything............
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Steve Miller said:
Well you know how it is your production cost are high too.
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Steve, please define high productions costs and what you use to reference them as being high.



Steve Miller said:
Of course buying a YP ad in every phone book in a four state area is expensive also.
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Steve, it would be 7 states, 60+ directories. Largely as Ken Petersen put it...research & client education that doubles as advertising on the market frontline. The cost is minimanl, when you can sample a market price from the mouth of the consumer...as opposed to a dishonest MDJ.

Budget Breakdown:

1990-2005 Advertising: 7.84% -- Last 5 year period {2000-2005} Advertising: 7.72%
1990-2005 Insurance : 4.74% -- Last 5 year period {2000-2005} Insurance : 6.56% Budget Subtotal: 12.58% -- 5yr: 14.28%

It would appear that an insurance increase has taken place in the last five years.

Should one eat the cost...or pass it onto the consumer... Hmmmm...
 
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