How much do I need to charge...

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Do not believe that there are low priced, bottom dwelling dj's out there in every market that are ruining all types of events?

Do not believe that these dj's are costing better dj's money, reputation, and making our overall value decreased?
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First, it's worthy to note that you've posed your questions in the most loaded fashion you could construct. That is, they are not really questions at all, but rather declaratives that demand a response.


It would be more instructive if you posed each of the 7 issues you raise as true separate questions.

But here is what you seek:

1. There are low priced, bottom dwelling dj's out there in every market that are ruining all types of events.

I DISAGREE​

2. These dj's are costing better dj's money, reputation, and making our overall value decrease.

I DISAGREE​
 
"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know...it's what we do know...that just ain't so." - Mark Twain
 
Dude Walker said:
"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know...it's what we do know...that just ain't so." - Mark Twain
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I love this quote... a variation of it is attributed to Edwin Armstrong. Armstrong was an electrical engineer and is best known as the inventor of the wideband FM radio technology we know today.

Think about that phrase. The "things people know that ain't so" could apply to us all. We all have our convictions. Just because you, me or the next person is convinced something isn't so doesn't necessarily make it not so. We may chat about numbers and business tactics 'til the cows come home... but in the end, little is going to change out there in the trenches.

When someone is convinced that something "ain't so", changing that attitude will require more than posting on an industry networking forum where folks who are convinced it "ain't so" aren't likely to see it anyhow. :)
 
Proformance said:
First, it's worthy to note that you've posed your questions in the most loaded fashion you could construct. That is, they are not really questions at all, but rather declaratives that demand a response.


It would be more instructive if you posed each of the 7 issues you raise as true separate questions.

But here is what you seek:

1. There are low priced, bottom dwelling dj's out there in every market that are ruining all types of events.

I DISAGREE​

2. These dj's are costing better dj's money, reputation, and making our overall value decrease.

I DISAGREE​
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Performance:

Yes they were loaded questions. Requiring a yes or no.

I asked the questions, in that way specifically, to give you and out. In the "hope" that any one of the "parts" could have been used as a disqualifier to the question as a whole.

Since you did broach that subject, I will wait with a reply and give you the opportunity to explain yourself and answers in detail.

If you wish.

Steve

http://www.discjockeynews.com/

I find this paper to be very educational. You might be interrested in it also.

Best of all, it fits in most dj's budgets...FREE!
 
I will wait with a reply and give you the opportunity to explain yourself and answers in detail.
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I think the information you want is already posted here in this thread. Hence, the repetition of your original questions. Thank you for your interest, but I'll take a pass on a second run. I'd rather let some other people chime in.

If you're interested in pursuing the topic maybe you could illustrate for everyone what is missing?

Perhaps explain why the person you describe as "feeding on bottom scraps" constitutes such a burden to professional DJs? What do you think should ideally be done about it?

It would also be necessary then, given the nature of DJing to know how it is you distinguish the avid consumer of entertainment electronics (potential clients) from the "bottom feeder" ? How is your solution going to be received by the consumer?

Perhaps start a new thread with your ideas?
 
I wonder how some folks are able to tend to their own businesses while spending every waking hour worried about what other DJs are charging.

There are market dynamics that no amount of pontificating are going to change. Nobody is going to change Walmart shoppers into Tiffany's customers, and nobody is going to turn Tiffany's customers into Walmart shoppers. And no, they are not Walmart shoppers just because you haven't come along to educate them yet. They are Walmart shoppers because that is what they are.

Decide who your clients are and service them. Who cares who the other guy is servicing. I don't doubt that some of these worth gurus have noble intentions, but they refuse to recognize that certain things won't be changed no matter what you say. Wouldn't energy be better spent figuring out how to better service your own clients, be they Tiffany's or Walmart clients?
 
Fred Stewart said:
Dude Walker said:
"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know...it's what we do know...that just ain't so." - Mark Twain
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I love this quote...

Think about that phrase. The "things people know that ain't so" could apply to us all. We all have our convictions...

When someone is convinced that something "ain't so", changing that attitude will require more than posting on an industry networking forum where folks who are convinced it "ain't so" aren't likely to see it anyhow.
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Fred, precisely why I posted it...

Have a good day sir!


BKSound,

Welcome to the discussion...

The original post specifically addressed a person tending to their own business. It made no assumptions. It merely required a person to input their own numbers and view possible scenarios.

Wal-Mart & Tiffany's are not in the same league, quality or customer service wise. Yet, they co-exist as businesses (not hobbies) within the economy.

This often used comparison underscores that one is greater than the other.

In reality, there is:

an rather small handful of MDJs charging $10,000+ per show.
an small group of MDJs charging $5,000 - $9,999 per show.
an slightly larger small group of MDJs charging $2,500 - $2,999+ per show.
an medium sized group of MDJs charging $1,000 - $2,499 per show.
an rather large group of MDJs charging $500 - $999
an enormous group of MDJs charging less than $499

Where would Tiffany's fit into the above price levels?


Let's use a more fair comparison, Wal-Mart vs Kmart.

Kmart was doing their own thing. Being among the oldest retailers in the US evolving from a company in 1899 known as the S.S. Kresge Company (“five and ten cent store.”) Kmart enjoyed a several profitable years after launching as a discount chain in 1962.

Kmart, however, fell upon hard time for various reasons, among them was the precariousness of the economy and impact of the deepening recession which, in turn, intensified competition among the large discounters.

It has been asserted that Kmart management made a number of miscalculations with regard to archrival mega-chains Wal-Mart and Target. In part, by dismissing the effect that rising competitors posed within a marketplace vying for a similar client base.

Wal-Mart and other retail discount stores cashed in after Kmart closed 284+ store in 2003-2004. Those pre-defined customers of Kmart became customers of Wal-Mart and others by default.

Good for Wal-Mart and others right?

On the surface, perhaps...

Wal-Mart gains a market buying position to dictate prices to suppliers. In 2004, oil price were high. Resin, by product of oil, rises in price. Resin is a key ingredient to Rubbermaid (USA) products. Rubbermaid (USA) tries to raise it's wholesale prices to retailers. Wal-Mart, being one the major gateways to the public for Rubbermaid (USA) says NO.

In retaliation to a needed wholesale increase Rubbermaid (USA) stock is pulled from the Wal-Mart store shelves and replaced with Sterlite (India).

Rubbermaid (USA) is forced to shed 5,000 jobs, 88+million dollars in American wages, 13+ million dollars in tax revenue, due to plant closings due to a lower priced product. This doesn’t include the millions in financial loss on Wall Street in stock prices. Rubbermaid essentially became a product that could not “cost effectively” be produced on American soil at the same price point.

Why? Because Wal-Mart was “unwilling” or “deserved” a lower price?

We must remain vigilant and aware of a competitors dealings to survive. Dismissing a competitor as inconsequential, is foolhardy.

There are many similar parallels we can derive from the above matter, however, it all comes down to pricing.


"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it." - Upton Sinclair
 
Isn't the real problem with Kmart it's anchoring of failed product lines like Jacqueline Smith clothing, et al. etc.?

Sometimes your competition wins simply because you pick a losing strategy.

Now why should I concern myself with profits at Rubbermaid when I can do the responsible thing for my family and buy Sterlite for less? Isn't it encumbent upon Rubbermaid to adopt an effective strategy to compete in a Global economy?

Food for thought.

It seems to me that when adopting a business plan - you should consider the preferences of the people you intend to spring it on - the consumer. That appears to be what Walmart did.
 
Proformance said:
Now why should I concern myself with profits at Rubbermaid when I can do the responsible thing for my family and buy Sterlite for less? Isn't it encumbent upon Rubbermaid to adopt an effective strategy to compete in a Global economy?
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Hmmm, I wonder what the families of former Rubbermaid employees think...?

Bob, always the skeptic...:sqwink:

BTW, the customer isn't making a responsible choice. Wal-Mart forcibly made an irresponsible decision seeking profits for themselves, at the expense of American jobs, whitewashing their tactics as in the interesting of helping the customer "falling prices" by replacing Rubermaid (USA) with Sterlite (India).

Prices may fall...but at what cost?

As for Global Economy:

Hmmm, if outsourced American jobs were required to meet employment standards equal or greater than USA companies.. if outsouced American jobs were required to meet the same human rights standards as USA companies... Perhaps your arguement could be acknowledged as a fair and impartial comparison...




In the words Jon Lehman, former disillusioned 17 year employee and manager of 6 different stores - turned union organizer:

Jon Lehman former Wal Mart manager said:
Lehman commented on company practices, outsourcing strategies and negotiating styles. Unsurprisingly, the union organizer was critical of the anti-union Wal-Mart’s negotiating tactics, though he focused on their suppliers: “Well, it’s very one-sided. There is no negotiation. There’s not much negotiation at all.” “They know every fact and figure that these manufacturers have. They know their books, they know their costs, they know their business practices, everything, you know. So, what’s a manufacturer left to do? They sit naked in front of Wal-Mart. You know, Wal-Mart calls the shots. ‘If you want to do business with us, if you want to stay in business, then you’re going to do it our way.’ And it’s all about driving down the cost of goods.”
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Hmmmm, more food for thought...

Wal-Mart is selling on price...not the quality of living and the workforce behind it!
 
I will give Walmart credit for knowing exactly what the people walking through the door will spend their money on. I'm not in Walmart very often, but when I am, I'm always impressed at how crowded the place is and how everyone's shopping cart is full.

Walmart seems to be very good at identifying what products will attract customers and consequently fly off the shelves.

I see no reason Walmart should sacrifice it's own success by ignoring it's own best instincts to preserve profits for one of it's suppliers.

You do realize don't you - that the owners and stockholders of these "Corporate Satans" are other Americans like you and me?

Would you be willing to let your Mutual Funds and other investments tank so that Rubermaid can stock the Walmart shelves with products it's customer are going to ignore? Won't that make them the next K-mart? Woolworth? Almy's?

How do you explain what happened to American retail legend Sears, Roebuck, & Co.?

BTW: I've got some bubble fluid packaged for DJs that retails for $21.95 gal. (I know you can get bubble fuid for $3 /gal at Walmart - but I'm counting on you to raise the bar!)
 
Originally Posted by Proformance
Now why should I concern myself with profits at Rubbermaid when I can do the responsible thing for my family and buy Sterlite for less? Isn't it encumbent upon Rubbermaid to adopt an effective strategy to compete in a Global economy?
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Hmmm, I wonder what the families of former Rubbermaid employees think...?
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Dude, I've got to ask you a personal question:

Why is it you never answer any questions?

Do you consider yourself beyond question?

I ask because I'm beginning to wonder if you grasp the true depth of the Twain quote, or simply dwell on it's first flip.
 
Dude Walker said:
Hmmm, I wonder what the families of former Rubbermaid employees think...?
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Does Walmart have an obligation to Rubbermaid employees, or does Rubbermaid alone shoulder that burden?

Social and economic engineering is great in theory, and makes for interesting debate, but the free market is what determines reality.

The discussion about Walmart and Rubbermaid is interesting, I suppose, but doesn't really have anything to do with the point I was making.

You seem to think that a Walmart customer is just a Tiffany's customer who just doesn't know better, or hasn't been educated as to why they should be a Tiffany's customer. Reality is that some folks are just natural born Walmarters, while others are just natural born Tiffany customers.

In the world of MDJs (I've been wanting to type that anacronym forever) there are some DJs who suck. They have always sucked and will keep on sucking until they collapse. Some people just do not have the talent, drive, education, charisma, background, or whatever, to be anything other than the suck DJ they are and have always been. Lucky for these guys there are consumers who don't care if their DJ sucks or not as long as they work cheap, their mic works, and they play loud music. If people stopped hiring suck DJs, they would have no place in the business. But there is no shortage of Walmart consumers who keep hiring bad DJs, so they persist.

When the square peg does not fit into the round hole, just getting a bigger hammer and pounding harder is not going to solve the problem.
 
BKSound said:
If people stopped hiring suck DJs, they would have no place in the business. But there is no shortage of Walmart consumers who keep hiring bad DJs, so they persist.
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that is soooooooo true.

like the schools that continue to hire cheep DJ for their prom, and every year their proms suck.

But according to my daughter, whose an 11th grader this year.....most of her friends don't pay much attention to the music at her school dances. Many of the dances have videos and people just stand around watching videos and they hardly even dance. The DJs they hire are cheapos with laptops and Radio Shack equipment. There is always dead air between songs. YGWYPF.

There is NOTHING we as DJs can do about schools like the one my daughter attends! They are the equivalent of the Wal-Mart customer....people who buy Sterilite and throw the stuff away because its crap. (I will not allow a Sterilite container into my home....we prefer Tupperware or Rubbermaid)
 
BKSound said:
When the square peg does not fit into the round hole, just getting a bigger hammer and pounding harder is not going to solve the problem.
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YEP!

But it sure screws up the peg...and the hole!:sqwink:

BKSound said:
Does Walmart have an obligation to Rubbermaid employees, or does Rubbermaid alone shoulder that burden?
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I believe that Wal-Mart has an obligation to America, and it's workforce.

Responsible, Ethical, Economic behavior...

Outsourcing American jobs doesn't strengthen our economy. It undermines the job futures of the upcoming generations.
 
BKSound said:
Decide who your clients are and service them. Who cares who the other guy is servicing. I don't doubt that some of these worth gurus have noble intentions, but they refuse to recognize that certain things won't be changed no matter what you say. Wouldn't energy be better spent figuring out how to better service your own clients,
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A mere thank you button doesn't do it. The above MUST be valid. Why? Because it's MY philosophy as well....:sqwink:
 
Dude Walker said:
I believe that Wal-Mart has an obligation to America, and it's workforce.
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I'm not so sure about that, Dude. They are obligated to abide by the laws of the land, and they are obligated to shareholders to maximize profits. Unethical practices are either illegal or destined to be for the most part. No need for hand-wringing there.

Let me clarify here that I am not anti-worth and I am not anti-Dude Walker either. I have read some of your stuff on DJN and you have some really neat, interesting ideas.

I just think you are approaching some of these things in a no-win way. There are DJs who will not be able to make it long term in the industry for all sorts of reasons. Some of them couldn't sell a donut to a fat kid with a pocketful of dimes. Some of them are just not good enough to create demand. Some have no business sense whatsoever. The market weeds these people out over time. These guys are not my competitors. I don't care what they charge, because the people who hire them are also not my clients.

I think it is a bit presumptuous to assume that the people who hire bad DJs just don't know any better. Consumers are not as dumb as some would like to think. They know they don't have a lot of money and they cannot afford a lot of DJ. This doesn't affect my business at all. I applaud you for trying to raise the bar for all of us. I really do. I just think that trying to get the whole industry together in some sort of mass movement to raise the bar is utopian thinking. As the late John Candy said, "you'd have better luck trying to play pick-up sticks with your buttcheeks.
 
BKSound,

I do not disagree with your post.

However, I see a unique insight into the following statement,

BKSound said:
They are obligated to abide by the laws of the land, and they are obligated to shareholders to maximize profits. Unethical practices are either illegal or destined to be for the most part.
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When any given entity cannot produce a product while abiding by the laws of the land, that is the precise point when ethics are tested to the breaking point. In the case of Wal-Mart, they made an unethical choice to send jobs overseas.

Whether or not a client has the knowledge to discern price, quality, value is negated when the initial quest is price.

This creates the price loop problem:

Target Market
Potential Sales
Avg Market Price
Desired Target Price
Desired Salary
Production Cost Needed to Achieve Sales Goal
Ability to Achieve Sales in a Congested Market


The market recycles itself because it is generally being referenced to Market Price.

There is an UNending supply of people willing to start at or well below market average.

The market is fairly finite.

So where and when is the Market Price increased? Reactively...or Proactively?

I'm more or less curious as to why someone would hire a "BAD DJ" if they had the where-with-all to know they were "bad" to begin with?

Raising the bar may well be Utopian thinking...

I simply offered a table to play with numbers...

Funny how these thing morph when people take exception...

(701)234-9492
 
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