How much do I need to charge...

[Dude Walker]

Dude, you use an awful lot of keystrokes, but you don’t really say that much. I’ve given you a long list of simple questions that shouldn’t require all that much typing. I wish you well in your Meta-physical journey. I also encourage you consider a top-down approach rather than this bottoms-up idea about your “true” costs.

Bob, thank you for your kind words. Most of these pages exist due to a difference of opinion...nothing more.

Top Down vs Bottoms Up approach to pricing. Each approach has valid points.

I have yet, to view an acceptable arguement for earning less.

I've sincerely hoped that someone, with your expertise, would be a more forthcoming participant of ODJT and share information, rather than simply denouncing contrary views without supporting arguement or examples.

I will tip my hat to you sir... Thus far, you are truly the king of evasive.

BTW, "parasitic" - dependence on something else for existence or support without making a useful or adequate return
Now can I have my tin foil hat back Bob...? You've had it for weeks.

(meaning that you keep all 18 running at least 3 times a week)

Steve, curious...

This arbitrary number of 3 times per week was set by...? Why so few...? - or - Why so many?

The number 3 per week is not arbitrary if you are looking at this as a business, it is a minimum.

Why? Your explanation was related to your experience. Who set and Why is the minimum 3 per week?

Dude,

Yes the number three is based on my experience, just as everyone else including you must base their own terms of successful business on each of their own experiences.

Steve, thank you for your clarification.

Apparently you are a very large multi-op on the other hand I am a very small multi-op. I grossed $122,000 last year from DJ, karaoke and rentals, I don't have the net yet because my taxes aren't done yet, but looking at the year before I should end up with a taxable income of around $80,000.

Steve, how many events did you handle last year?

Number of gigs performed by my company last year or just by me?

Your company. If you would like to share how many you personally did, that's fine. More or less looking at an overall picture.

268 approximate because I didn't feel like going back through the calendar and counting again my hard copies are at my tax mans office.

Steve, would it be safe to assume that your production cost is around $156 per show?

 

[Guest]

First I would have to break that down to particular types of gigs ie. club gigs, karaoke bar gigs, corporate events Weddings and PPs, distance, time etc. to give an exact cost of each type of show.

But an average of $156 would be correct.

 

[Proformance]

..and share information, rather than simply denouncing contrary views without supporting arguement or examples.

Steve is not the one here operating from his "gut" feeling.

Perhaps you've forgotten that the argument was presented by you? You are the one who is first and foremost obligated to support your claims with actual evidence rather than speculative conclusion and popularized supposition.

About half of everything I've posted in your thread has been in the form of a question. Most of them pointed and quite direct, or linear as you prefer.

(How you got to the 14th amendment and the space shuttle still eludes me.)

I will tip my hat to you sir... Thus far, you are truly the king of evasive.

You ask for more than you are prepared to give. I see no reason to share homework where there's no evidence to suggest you've made any credible effort on your own.

I have yet, to view an acceptable arguement for earning less.

I have yet, to find anyone offering such an argument. Do you have a name?

..again could you please name that thing or person you consider worthless or promoting worthlessness?

Who are all these people making arguments for poverty?

 

[Dude Walker]

Bob,

One cannot explain to people, "that", which they are unwilling to hear.

Naming names...? C'mon...

Participate or not...your choice.

I've offered you a list of "the type" supporting worthlessness. You want a specific "person" to argue over the validity of the "person"...not the issue.

I've had several people over many years discuss specific and sensitive information to the questions at hand. They deserve discretion...pure and simple.

(How you got to the 14th amendment and the space shuttle still eludes me.)

I'm beginning to think a lot of things elude you, Bob.

You asked...I answered...

Comprehension is a personal issue, defined only by the relatable.

 

[Fred Wright]

Just a quick hijack...

The off-brand CRT sets from Indonesia are made by Funai. Funai also produced CRT sets under Magnavox, Sylvania, Emerson and other old line logos.

The days of the CRT television are numbered. They will soon go the way of CRT computer monitors. They're disposable ~ beyond economical repair. If they expire within the warranty period, the supplier simply replaces 'em.

Part of the reason they're so inexpensive... existing stock is dwindling. Out with the old, in with the new. Sam's Club may still have some stock left but I haven't seen 'em on the store floor lately.

Back to your regular scheduled thread.

 

[DJMC]

Maybe its the fact that LCD's are more popular....but will they last longer?

And, do you really need to spend $189 on a LCD for Karaoke viewing?

The only size I need is that 13", it fits on my stand.....I'd have to reinvent the wheel to use an LCD flat screen.

I think what's happening with 13" color monitors, is going to happen in other phases of our industry.

Trust me when I say this: THINGS ARE NOT GETTING CHEAPER!!!

Last week, I paid $68.77 for a 40/40 amp circuit breaker. The burnt breaker still had its original "Lumberjack" (bankrupt home improvement chain) price sticker, for $24.99 (in 1980).

13" Karaoke monitor.....is a tool of my trade. It USED TO BE A FIFTY DOLLAR ITEM. In just 2 short years, its become....potentially..... a HUNDRED DOLLAR replacement expense.

 

[Proformance]

One cannot explain to people, "that", which they are unwilling to hear.

What is the secret message Dude? What is it that mere words cannot express?

I've offered you a list of "the type" supporting worthlessness.

I know you did - You're quick to point out that type and those people. I'm sorry I just don't buy into such nonsense.

Naming names...? C'mon...

Yes. It is you who is trading the currency of that type and those people so put your money where your mouth is and let's see who those people are.

Let's ask them if they are parasites. Let's ask them if they are ignorant.
Let's calculate their "average production cost" and see if your worthless monaker fits.

Participate or not...your choice.

I think you mean "buy" not participate. I'm not buyin' it, Dude.
You need to put some substance behind your musings.

 

[DJMC]

OK, me and my wife were discussing this very topic today, in reference to my minimum rate ($699).

I mentioned to her that I've been doing LESS traveling in the last couple of years, due to more events closer to home. Even the higher gas prices didn't affect me like I thought... this brought my operating costs down, and increased profitability.

Another way to increase profitability was being more selective about the type of customers by advertising non-cheese......I don't need my lovely assistant because non-cheese clients don't want interactives, singing, etc. Saves me $75 to $100 per show. I'm still charging the same amount, but not having to raise rates makes me more competitive. My overhead saved on those 30 events where I didn't need my asst., was $

 

[Proformance]

Trust me when I say this: THINGS ARE NOT GETTING CHEAPER!!!

Matt,

Relatively speaking, they are. The price hikes you are entertaining have to do more with changing standards or requirements.

It's not that the new stuff is so much more expensive, it's that the old stuff is losing it's value. Obsolete gear is always cheap.

Also, if you adjust for inflation you'll find that the breaker from 20 years ago isn't that much cheaper than the one you just bought.

2500 Lumens with auto setup that fits in a suit case for $800 (today) is a whole lot better than $4,000 for a CRT that needs a road case bigger than most 18" subs, and a technician who can adjust the convergence and color balance internally at the PC board. (the 80's)

 

[jtnichol]

The price of a 13" color monitor HAS DOUBLED in the last 2 years!!!

13" color CRT monitors are a vintage item over the last 2 years!!

I'm just playing of course, i bring nothing to the table in this thread....its a good read....

 

[JoeChartreuse]

Joe,

1A) I understand your position, however, there are MDJs that give about as much consideration to ancillary quality as potential brides do to their entertainment choices.

1B) However, when claims are made that tout equal specs and qualifications, who is to blame when the end result does not produce the promised result?







2) Joe, predisposition is always helpful. Willingness to use one's mind is vital to success.

I'm curious. Do you find yourself more or less creative with electronics after honing a knack into a qualified and recognized accomplishment?

I’m also curious if you are receiving greater financial rewards after turning a knack/hobby into a qualified and recognized accomplishment?

1A & B) I included the following phrase in the post being referred to: " The principle works if you're smart enough to do the research.". I should have included WILLING. If you DO the research, you won't have to depend on mfrs. claims for for your information. You don't need an EE for this. The ability to read a spec and use applicable test equipment (or know the right person) will cover it. I would add that if one is in a business that depends on it's equipment, this knowledge would be almost NECCESARY. By extension, the answer to 1B is the DJ/Karaoke Host.


2) Yes to both, or I would be doing something else....

 

[Dude Walker]

One cannot explain to people, "that", which they are unwilling to hear.

What is the secret message Dude? What is it that mere words cannot express?

I've offered you a list of "the type" supporting worthlessness.

I know you did - You're quick to point out that type and those people. I'm sorry I just don't buy into such nonsense.

Naming names...? C'mon...

Yes. It is you who is trading the currency of that type and those people so put your money where your mouth is and let's see who those people are.

Let's ask them if they are parasites. Let's ask them if they are ignorant.
Let's calculate their "average production cost" and see if your worthless monaker fits.

Participate or not...your choice.

I think you mean "buy" not participate. I'm not buyin' it, Dude.
You need to put some substance behind your musings.

Bob, come now...you're just being pretentious.

If we look back to 02-08-2007, 03:46 PM Post #34

I don't find your table at all representative of business.

I have not viewed one valid suggestion of support in your supposition...

Largely, what brings us to this point.

I can accept that your school of thought differs from mine. However, I am curious why thoughts that differ from yours in this forum and others, becomes such a common platform for debatable nonsense...as you commonly assert?



Joe,

Thank you for your reply, acknowledged and noted.

 

[Flyingdjdan]

Performance:
Am I to understand that you do not believe that there are not "dj's" out there that are willing to do a show for table scraps? Beer and dinner? Or a few bucks that are screwing up the "reputation" of quality dj's in general?

You do not believe that "shoddy" dj's are ruining hundreds if not thousands of events? Thus bringing down the overall "value" of a quality dj and making our job of "selling" a client harder?

If you believe so strongly that Dude Walker's origional "theory" and table are incorrect, would it not be easier for you to disprove it rather that 12 pages of "prove it"?

I find the arguments on both sides rather compelling! But neither has "thoughtfully" won me over. I can say that for "basic" quick info, it did work for me. But maybe I am the exception?

Wasn't the original post a "take it or leave it"?

To the "production cost = lower price" people:

Where is it shown in most, if not all other services and products I purchase.

Automobiles are mostly assembled by machine anymore, why is the price of a "new" car out of most peoples finances?

Why is it that computers diagnose my automobile's problems almost instantly, but yet it is over 90.00 an hour for an mechanic to "work" on my car?
Why is it that so many "jobs" are being shipped over seas, but why is it still $100.00 for a pair of nike, converse, etc?

Machines make farming easier, acreage more productive, yet food costs skyrocket?

Why is it that our dj gear has "minimum advertised pricing"?

I find it insane that we as dj's are so stuck on "gear" being what is used as the value base for our pricing!

Steve,

You said "years ago" you did video for 1200.00. Has the "value" of that service you provided really depreciated?

10 dj's. Same equipment. Same value?

I will set my price on the value and importance to the event in question. I set my price on what I bring to the event. My knowlege, expertise, and dedication. Not the equipment cost.

BTW: Did you know that in some cases, the costs of packaging alone are actually more than the content? But yet we purchase on percieved value of the content.

 

[Fred Wright]

Well, yeah. I'll agree that a dime bag of Doritos (back when it still cost a dime) is comprised of a few cents worth of corn chips and elaborate packaging. The packaging is definately more of an investment than what's in it. And the packaging is tossed in the trash.

Truth be told, the expensive packaging is a necessary evil. It appeals to one of humankind's more basic senses: sight. Sight is a first impression.

 

[Proformance]

The price of a 13" color monitor HAS DOUBLED in the last 2 years!!!

Perhaps because it is now considered hazardous waste. LOL

But, how has the price moved in the last 10 years? 20 years? Back then "small" meant more expensive.

 

[Dude Walker]

Steve, would it be safe to assume that your production cost is around $156 per show?

First I would have to break that down to particular types of gigs ie. club gigs, karaoke bar gigs, corporate events Weddings and PPs, distance, time etc. to give an exact cost of each type of show.

But an average of $156 would be correct.

Steve, thank you for your candid reply.

There is an underlying truth in business. Controlling costs fosters profitability. However, charging an adequate price for perpetuation is part of that theory as well.

Largely the reason for offering the table at the beginning of this thread. More or less an evaluation tool.

Would you be willing to share more insight into your $156 production cost?

I believe that it would be beneficial to see that many here have common ground regarding expenditures.

Perhaps you've discover a way to control costs more efficiently than others...?

 

[Guest]

Dude most businesses look at a return of 33 to 40 percent over cost as damn profitable on a consumable item. On services 40 to 50 percent is consider a decent return after cost.

I think a 66% return is excellent before I consider my time into the equation.

I don't know what insight I can add as my production cost is everything related to my business right down to the staples and thumb tacks I use.

Why don't you share your numbers with us and what your overall average production cost is per year per gig? That way we can compare the basics between a large multi-op versus a small multi-op versus a single-op.

 

[Dude Walker]

Steve,...You're on!

How shall we best proceed?

One year compare, two years, ten year, twenty years, a specific year...

Shall I post a spreadsheet with expense categories that we can use or shall we discuss each category, one item at a time?

Personally, I think it would be interesting to compare 1995 & 2005. Pre mp3 DJ world to present day.

Thoughts?

 

[Guest]

Why make it so complicated just post your average production cost versus profit percentage per gig.

To be honest I do not open anything that is linked I am on slow dialup and it takes forever and a day. I wasn't able to veiw your charts for the same reason. Keep it simple and short for the board and post it so I can read it.

 

[Dude Walker]

Steve,

The sum of the expenditures illustrates the production costs.

If we just post an end number... How will be able to compare apples to apples?

You seemed intrigued to see the production cost difference (in any) between a large & small multi. If the numbers reflect a difference, wouldn't you like to know what that difference is?