OurDJTalk "better"?

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K

kellys

New DJ
Oct 29, 2006
363
0
56
Winter Haven, FL
www.apremierentertainment.com
I debated to whether I wanted to start another thread or not. I took the time to read the "Group Think" thread and also the one that Arnoldo just started. I decided to open this thread with the sole purpose of understanding what to expect from this forum in the future. I totally respect all of the people here and believe that everyone has value and the ability to help each other and our industry as a whole. So ....

What makes OurDJTalk the "better" chat site? I have been rather quiet posting here or anywhere else lately (I have been playing the snot out of Bomb Jack 2 though). If what "makes" this site better is that we all play nice then my question is, so what? These forums are ideally a great place to learn, network, and grow (personally and professionally).

A musle grows by putting it through stress and then giving it a time to rest and grow. If there is no stress, there is no growth. If you don't like what is being posted by someone, you always have to choice to ignore it. I find it insulting that the mods feel that we need to be protected from other posters. I'm a big boy, I can handle myself. Anyone else feel that they can't?

If TOS isn't being violated, then a thread should never be shut down. We all choose to be here. The time we spend on here is time we will never get again. To shut anyone down because you don't like what they are saying is outrageous!

I realize that it sometimes gets out of hands, but even in those occasions, there is always value to someone. If this is the type of behaviour we can expect here, how is that any better then the board that we all left?

I personally have great respect for Peter Merry. I own his marketing DVD and will be purchasing his book as soon as I can get it. I also own material from Mark Ferrell, Randy Bartlett, Todd Mitchem and many others. I believe that you can learn from anyone if you are willing to be open. I don't pattern myself after any of them, but I think our industry would be much worse off without them.

I have more, but I don't want to make a post so long that no one responds.
 
I don't like to think of it as better than the others, just different in a nice way.

It's not what you say, it how it is said that we are trying to have here. It is true without flexing that mussle you will never get stronger.

I am talking for me now not the other Mods, but people can make points, disagree and all that, and still maintain a certian amout of decorum.

I don't want to use the word professional, but it's the only one I can think of right now. Treat each other like the professionals that we all are or that we are striving to be.

Most of us have been around long enough that we can see where a post is going, when something is getting started, we don't have to wait for it to get there.

Through PM's or E-mails or phone calls we can talk to a member and hopefully iron out something before it becomes a problem.

Is this site better than some other site or just different in a nicer way?

That's open for discussion, now I have to go play Bomb Jack 2... :)

:chuckthedj:
 
hey Jack cares. But all joking aside. I concur with Chuck on this one. One thing I would like to say, this is a board for the members. When mods do their duties at least here (I cant speak for moderation elsewhere) they first attempt to do as they do in behalf of the members and this forum.

Since we are gaining a large community as fast as we are, we have to think on our feet when considering the base of our members. Most often our attempts seem to be working for at least the majority and other times the masses. On a couple occasions during controversial (daily issues elsewhere)or colorful instances perhaps we acted and then even altered upon further revue our decision. This alone is rarely heard of in other forums even beyond DJ forums.

Not to toot the horn but efforts are made outside what would be considered typical procedure as often as possible to include PM communication and even phone calls. We do this cause we care about the future of this site. I hope if folks were to really look into the day to day here , they would in fact agree that we do provide something different and in fact portray respect, fun networking and with one goal to continue making this OURDJTALK.
Thanks for your time.

If you didnt agree with anything I said. Please don't sue me.
 
Jon,

I won't sue :). I understand what you and Chuck are saying, but I'm worried about threads being shut down just because some don't like it. I'm not defending anyone and I can see where there was a fair share of unwarranted name calling, but it would be a shame for certain people to not post here anymore simply because others didn't like what they had to say.

Peter is who Peter is. You don't have to like him and you don't have to agree with him. I get what he says and I agree with most of it. I have grown in my profession because of him and many others that sometimes rock the boat. Not to have him here because he rubs some the wrong way is a great disservice to many that don't feel that way. He has lots to offer. It seams that is being dismissed by the need to shut it down because the thread isn't nice enough.

There was lots of great information and good natured debate going on, but it got shut down. I don't see the necessity for this. I would rather that those that aren't interested in what is being said to not chime in for the sake of chiming in. If you don't have anything to add to the thread, they should stop. If they have issues or legitimate content to add, let them go even if it isn't stated in the nicest of ways. Lets face it, you can't always tell what someones intent is based solely on the content of the post.

Anyway, I'm not looking for this site to degenerate into what others sites have, but I'm also not interested in a site where no one has a difference of opinion or different ideas. It is those differences that allow us to see there are other ways of doing what we do. I for one was thrilled that some of the more well known personalities have surfaced here on ODT. Lets not lose them simply because we don't agree with them!
 
Matt,

I understand that, but from the stand point of the posters, that isn't enough. Lets face it, if all those guilty of pot stiring were removed from this site, you / I / and most of the others would not be allowed here.
 
Sometimes within a thread there are a number of positive posts that show different viewpoints and explain their views, so that we can learn what they mean...

Unfortunately, there are some within the same post that shout out, name call and so on and that will ruin the posts for everyone else...

It's like the one bad apple spoils the whole bunch boy, ....
 
I agree with the decision to close certain discussions, when a discussion gets to the point of degregation of others.......either way. In discussions like we have here, when the topic of conversation goes to personalities, stating generalities and moves away from point,....it serves no purpose. I have in my life/career debated on point with the best, but I have never resorted to personality attacks. All credibility is gone when this happens.
Just my 2 cents worth..........
 
Chuck,

I understand and agree, but aren't we adult enough to wade through the crap to pick out the gems? Rather then shut it down, why not let the individuals decide if they want to participate in the discussion? I know that many (me included) have seen where many of these discussions go and would rather not (beat the dead horse), but there are exceptions. I participated in a very lengthy post (at the other board) on Price and while it got heated at times, it was mostly well thought out and lots of great information got shared.

What I'm asking is, does it make it better to shut it down rather then let it take it's natural corse? I never even got the opportunity to participate in the Group Think thread because it was closed before I ever even knew that it was going on (again, too much time on Bombjack 2 ;)). I saw several comments that I would have loved to have had the opportunity to comment on, but I never got the chance. I know that others may have felt differently, but I didn't see the need to close it down.

We all have other things that we could be doing with our time rather then spending it here. If we choose to spend that valuable commodity, I think it should be respected and not wasted. I think the Mods need to respect this as well. Thats my position!
 
DJ Gray,

I totally respect your opinion and your position. I'm sure that we all could use better judgement from time to time. I'm also sure that when you feel attacked that your natural instinct is to respond in kind.

Self control is a wonderful thing and I'm sure that we could all use more of it. My point is that just because you don't think there is a point to it doesn't give you (or me, or anyone else) the right to make that decision for everyone else. My suggestion is to not participate or ignore the thread.

We should not be protected like we are children. We should get to make the decisions for ourselves if the thread is pointless.

Again, I appreciate where you are coming from and I would love to see it get less personal then it does sometimes. I just want the opportunity to make that decision for myself.
 
If we form a regular pattern,

kellys said:
Jon,

I won't sue :). I understand what you and Chuck are saying, but I'm worried about threads being shut down just because some don't like it. I'm not defending anyone and I can see where there was a fair share of unwarranted name calling, but it would be a shame for certain people to not post here anymore simply because others didn't like what they had to say.

Peter is who Peter is. You don't have to like him and you don't have to agree with him. I get what he says and I agree with most of it. I have grown in my profession because of him and many others that sometimes rock the boat. Not to have him here because he rubs some the wrong way is a great disservice to many that don't feel that way. He has lots to offer. It seams that is being dismissed by the need to shut it down because the thread isn't nice enough.

There was lots of great information and good natured debate going on, but it got shut down. I don't see the necessity for this. I would rather that those that aren't interested in what is being said to not chime in for the sake of chiming in. If you don't have anything to add to the thread, they should stop. If they have issues or legitimate content to add, let them go even if it isn't stated in the nicest of ways. Lets face it, you can't always tell what someones intent is based solely on the content of the post.

Anyway, I'm not looking for this site to degenerate into what others sites have, but I'm also not interested in a site where no one has a difference of opinion or different ideas. It is those differences that allow us to see there are other ways of doing what we do. I for one was thrilled that some of the more well known personalities have surfaced here on ODT. Lets not lose them simply because we don't agree with them!
Click to expand...

I would agree 100% . However your picking a very thin branch off this tree and your hopes and concerns are duly noted and its a credit to the staff here we are immediately working on making things better even after an exhaustive Pete thread , I believe we can agree other than this issue and perhaps one or two others in the past 8 months ( while on other forums a near daily occurrence) Our actions were positive ones with the community soley in mind.

I have always enjoyed the differences and perspectives of the most colorful of members here and other places. I do however dislike when an individual determines their way the only way in return. Even you made that comment in our direction, as if we could easily become closed minded. On the contrary! If you look we have many different types, colors, styles etc making us a true melting pot of Professionals at different experience levels and in fact allowing us a unique opportunity to gain from everyones ideas here may it be positive or negative giving it the ops for potential learning experience.

Sometimes when folks preach we have to trust what they claim is truth is in fact the truth. Charismatic speakers can spoof even the brightest amongst us. This is where I have concerns with even the honorable Mr Merry.
Hope this makes for positive thought.:sqcool:
 
Jon,

Since Peter is at the center of this discussion, what did he say that tweaked everyone so much that the mods felt the need to close the thread? I'm pretty certain that while his way isn't the only way, few (if any) here can clain that they are doing better as a single op. If you use $ as the barameter for success, Peter has the floor!

I know that there are other ways to do things and I also understand that everyone has a different concept of success. Were his actions truly worthy of censorship? Was he abrasive? To those that he was sparing with, absolutely! Can he come across as arogant? To the extent that he truly believes that he is right, absolutely! Do you need to like or agree with him to find value in his posts? Not one bit!

I'm really not trying to put ODT or the mods here on the defensive. I'm trying to shed light on the fact that maybe closing threads, that in some peoples opinion doesn't have any value, is unnecessary and counter productive to others (those like me that would have enjoyed being part of the conversation).

Again, I'm not attempting to cause trouble, but I'm hoping that those with their fingers on the trigger remember why we are all here in the first place.
 
Kellys,

I didn't read the Peter thread after the few posts because I pick and choose what I want to read here and on other sites. I don't read every post... (opps should I have said that out-loud as a Mod? LOL) :)

And I have never personally closed a thread, but by doing so, I feel that it sends a message to all, that no matter what thread, or who posts, please keep your comments somewhat productive.

I feel that by setting ground rules at the begining, and this site is new, that we can avoid some problems other sites have had in the past.

Is there a perfect way to handle questionable posts? No, because no matter what we as Mods do, it will upest someone.

It is MY belief that everyone here wants to buld something we can all be proud of and have a say in, whether we agree with every little thing or not.

As you said, I think, earlier we are still flexing our mussles here and are learning and getting stronger as we go on.

It would be my hope that in the future we will not have to close any posts because everyone will keep it on track and that a few wont spoil it for everyone.

And as was said, the fact that we as Mods are here spending time , when we could be spending it elsewhere, is a sign that we want to work this all out with everyone.

Mahalo and aloha :chuckthedj:
 
Nice to see you posting, Kelly. :)

For what it's worth, I'm sure my posts in other threads show where I stand, I love a good debate. A debate at it's core is two or more people, sharing different viewpoints. The purpose of a debate isn't always to change the other peoples' mind. Often it's just to get your point across and show the others how and why you formed your opinion. A couple of people decide that it's their way or the highway and attack like piranhas trying to get you to think their way.

Kelly, I don't know how long you've been around the DJ forums but people who have been around a while have grown tired of these "debates", it's the same old same old and infects almost every DJ forum. I think a lot of people have come to ODJT to get away from that atmosphere. When 3 or 4 members complain, you can be sure there are many more who aren't voicing their opinion. What worries me are the people that don't say anything, get fed up and never come back over 1 thread or 1 other member who cannot communicate with decorum.

I agree Peter does take the cake he's obvious very good at what he does but that doesn't mean everyone has to do business his way.

As for closing threads, the closing of the thread didn't come as an easy decision for me, in fact a few moderators disagree with the close but around here the majority rules. If the moderators put it to a vote and say it should be reopened, that's what will happen.

When we first started out, if a thread got out of hand we would move it out of public view. After discussion, we no longer do this, we lock it in place out of respect for the members so they can review the thread at their leisure and start threads like this one. ;)

Threads like the two closed are like a little dog nipping at your feet, you cannot ignore them forever, whenever someone hits new posts it shows up. For some people who are vehemently against the GWYW movement it's like a magnetic attraction they cannot help but dispute the logic and the other side goes back.. It ends up going back and fourth like a never ending story.
 
Dan,

Thank you for your reply. It was well though out and I appreciate you taking the time to share your stance.

With that said, I think I'm either on or have been on most every major DJ Chat site. I don't post lots because if I don't have anything to contribute I don't see the necessity. With that said, I have been around since the Mark Ferrell vs. Scott Susor days of debate. I have heard both sides of the GWYW sides and it has easily been the most heated discussion I have ever witnessed on the boards (well, except for maybe the Bose threads, but I digress).

What you are probably not taking into consideration, not everyone has heard the GWYW message. Not everyone DJ has been around long enough to form an opinion. Not every DJ knows who these people are and what everyones agenda is. Just because we have all scene it before means they have. It is for the same reason that you treat every event like it is the most important one you have ever done, is the same reason that I implore the mods to let these threads live.

If ODT is only going to be a country club without allowing for these type of threads, how is it ever going to be of impact? I personally want to see this site grow and be more harmoneous then the other sites, but for that to happen, a voice or message can't be silenced. If every time one or a few people don't like what you are saying can silence it, how is this board any better then from which we came?

Dan, I respect your opinion! I think the mods have a hard job because you are right, someone is always going to challange your judgement.

I would love to hear what some of the other members think, not just the mods. Where do you stand?
 
You Are Correct

kellys said:
not everyone has heard the GWYW message.
Click to expand...

Thank you for pointing this out. I did not hear anything about it until I got a nasty E-mail from one of its members.

For the RECORD, it might NOT be considered "nasty" by all, but I did not use the term "nasty" in an EFFORT to put the movement down. I used the term, "nasty", because I deemed it as such.

:)
 
The Vinyl Spinner said:
Thank you for pointing this out. I did not hear anything about it until I got a nasty E-mail from one of its members.

For the RECORD, it might NOT be considered "nasty" by all, but I did not use the term "nasty" in an EFFORT to put the movement down. I used the term, "nasty", because I deemed it as such.

:)
Click to expand...

Explain? I'm not understanding what you just posted :)
 
kellys said:
Explain? I'm not understanding what you just posted :)
Click to expand...

At the beginning, when I was actively recruiting DJs in my area to join this forum, I received a reply from one of them, which basically made me feel like a jerk, and which told me to check out the Get What Your Worth Movement.

And that was just a few months ago.

I was just reinforcing the idea that chances are good that many of us may never have heard of GWYW.
 
Ok, now I understand. I appreciate you reinforcing my point. I do wish that more people here could apply civility to their posting. I think that there is definately a way to get your point across and have a good hearted debate without resorting to name calling and urinating contest.

I also believe that most here don't. So anyway, how about the rest of you?
 
kellys said:
DJ Gray,

I totally respect your opinion and your position. I'm sure that we all could use better judgement from time to time. I'm also sure that when you feel attacked that your natural instinct is to respond in kind.

Self control is a wonderful thing and I'm sure that we could all use more of it. My point is that just because you don't think there is a point to it doesn't give you (or me, or anyone else) the right to make that decision for everyone else. My suggestion is to not participate or ignore the thread.

We should not be protected like we are children. We should get to make the decisions for ourselves if the thread is pointless.

Again, I appreciate where you are coming from and I would love to see it get less personal then it does sometimes. I just want the opportunity to make that decision for myself.
Click to expand...

Kelly S,
Thanks for your well written response.....I wasn't able to get back to you sooner, I was playing with my Grandkids tonight, they just left........I understand where you are coming from, you feel that when these discussions get "off topic" and become destructive in nature, that we are grown ups here and we can seperate the "Wheat from the Chaff", right ???
My point is regardless of the nature of any discussion, on any site, or with any person in your's, or my life, when the talk/discussion goes to Character/Personality attacks, then from that point forward....NOTHING GOOD comes of it....... for anybody. I don't know if you are married or have kids, but the minute you attack the individual, (Wife, Kids, Significant other), and not the act or behavior that was being addressed, then at this point you have lost all credibility........As you well should. That's what was going on here....on both sides of the arguments/discussions. Again just my 2 cents worth.....I hope you understand what I am saying, I'm not taking sides on this issue......
 
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