I suck at live sound!!

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MADNESS

MADNESS

Well-Known DJ
Dec 20, 2006
2,293
49
65
Florence, AZ
www.primetimedj.net
I did a wedding on Friday. Had to run sound for the ceremony and could not get it right for the life of me, kept on getting feedback. It was very windy and a waterfall right next to the ceremony. I know what some of my problems were.
1. They had me set my table and mixer about 30 feet away on a patio. I had to run a powered Gemini speaker down to the area of the wedding. Yes I know Problem 1.
2. The area for the ceremony where I had to set the speaker were very close (about 15 feet from each other. So I kept getting a loop. Now thwere was one corded mic for a reader that went fine. But the 2 lavaliers that they brought (shure) did not do well.

I really need to work on this portion of my business to improve my skills.

If any one has any feedback one way or another, please feel free to pass it along.
 
MADNESS said:
I did a wedding on Friday. Had to run sound for the ceremony and could not get it right for the life of me, kept on getting feedback. It was very windy and a waterfall right next to the ceremony. I know what some of my problems were.
1. They had me set my table and mixer about 30 feet away on a patio. I had to run a powered Gemini speaker down to the area of the wedding. Yes I know Problem 1.
2. The area for the ceremony where I had to set the speaker were very close (about 15 feet from each other. So I kept getting a loop. Now thwere was one corded mic for a reader that went fine. But the 2 lavaliers that they brought (shure) did not do well.

I really need to work on this portion of my business to improve my skills.

If any one has any feedback one way or another, please feel free to pass it along.
Click to expand...

One thing you may want to invest in is something like a Feedback Shark or a rack unit such as the Behringer DEQ-2496 which has built in feedback control and an auto eq

Second, you can turn your speakers out at about a 45 degree angle away from center... I assume that the people speaking and using the mics were in front of and in between each speaker... pointing the speakers away from the mics will help... of course when possible placing the speakers in front of or ahead of the mics will help greatly... in other words put the mics behind the speakers.

Hope this helps.
 
I have thought about a feedback destroyer, I was only running 1 speaker for the wedding. I mics were behind the speaker but I think I was creating a loop from where I was to where the mics were, in relation to the speaketrs, sort of a long narrow triangle.
 
MADNESS said:
I have thought about a feedback destroyer, I was only running 1 speaker for the wedding. I mics were behind the speaker but I think I was creating a loop from where I was to where the mics were, in relation to the speaketrs, sort of a long narrow triangle.
Click to expand...

Feedback is normally caused by a loop that is correct but that loop involves the speakers and mic for the most part......

Sound comming from a speaker is picked up by the microphone and is amplified by going through your mixer to your amp and then out the speaker again.... there are some things you can do to help curb that:

1. Adjust your mic gain while muting the output... only adjust it to the peak point if your mixer indicates it for you but, not to have it peak constantly you only want to see that flicker occasionally.

This can be accomplished in tandam with (in the case of wireless) the recievers output gain control, if present, and the gain on your mic channel on the mixer. Typically I start with the mic reciever output at 12 o'clock and depending on if it is affecting the gain on the mixer I adjust up and down.

2. Next control how much of the mic is being sent to the main mix with your channel sliders. Feedback can be caused by having this slider to high and your main output slider high... sometimes if you have a talker that isn't projecting well instead of raising the mic gain simply increase the Main (assuming your not mixing vocals with music). By leaving the channel slider alone you wont change the gain structure much and reduces the chance of feedback issues... (if necessary you can back off the channel gain if feedback occurs).

3. Adjust your speaker position can also greatly reduce the chance of feedback... although I suspect in your case this was a gain structure issue.

4. A feed back shark in the mic insert will probably be the most affective method but not always desired... especially when mic'ing instruments such as a flute for instance.

YMMV
 
Joker, we adjusted for an hour to get it out. I dropped the gain, took out the highs mids and lows. Really IRKed me. It was like nothing I have ever had before. I think if I had been set behind or off to the side a bit, it would not have been bad, but I was set so far off and could not hear well. It really made it hard.
 
I have never used a feedback destroyer in a live environment. Proper Planning prevents... Knowing the unwritten rules help.

1) Make sure the microphone is behind the speakers. You are more susceptible to have feedback.
2) Invest in a good EQ, Ring out the mics ahead of time, Recognize what type of feedback is what. Is it a low rumble, high squeel or in between? Most boards have a 3 band EQ, you can quickly notch out a frequency and prevent feedback from coming back.
3) If you are deciding upon a feedback eliminator, why not get a DriveRack PA, we recently installed one of these in a public school which was having horrible problems during pep ralies in a gym. Although there was very little I could do without hanging acoustic absorption material, I was able RTA the system with pink noise, get it sounding decent, and then set live feedback filters that would come into action should the need arise. Note, the more frequencies you notch, the worse the sound is going to sound.

how close were the microphones to the individuals using them? Far? Close, inches?
 
You may NOT suck at live sound. I've noticed that certain speakers are more prone to feedback than others. I've also found that certain mics are more prone to feedback. Certain venues because of the size, ceiling height, shape etc, are more prone to feedback.

Speaker placement in relation to the microphones is the key. I used to think that speakers had to face directly at the audience. In order to reduce feedback and the harshness of sound pointed directly at people very close by I've started turning speakers away in some cases. Indoors the result is that the sound is bounced off a nearby wall and the audience can still hear just fine but with a bit softer tone to the sound.

Also, it's critical to keep microphones from being in front of the speakers. At times I found that placing trapezoidal speakers on the ground like a band monitor can help. Other times getting the speakers up as high as possible is better.

When I get feedback now it's because I'm in a very small room and the sound is bouncing off the walls back into the mic OR because the person with the mic has a soft voice and I have the gain on the mic channel up high.

It's a learning process. It takes time and trying new things depending on the venue to see what works best.

If you have some spare time, set your equipment up somewhere, practice, try different combinations of mics, speakers, speaker placement etc. I've done this many times and it's helped me to learn. You get really fast at set up and break down too, the more you do it.
 
Some mics are more prone to feedback than others.

Cheap wireless mics are known for that. A compressor/limiter may help with your
issues also.

But it sounds to me like the mics were just too hot, and the people just dont project into the mic very well.

I run sound often, (bands) and still have to educate the bands on proper mic usage....

So, don't be afraid to give the people a pep talk about how to use a mic.
 
I almost always give the MC or speakers a lesson in mic use. You teach people to keep the mic at chin level and they start with it there but watch how many times it drops to their waist during the speech.

young...
 
The problem most likely lies in the speaker... Its a crap product, putting out a distorted wave form of unequal balance.... I can hold a sure mic up to a bose system or some good yorkvilles, FBTs etc and get no feedback at all... hold it up to some of these crap speakers, and i'm throwing the mic 100 ft in the opposite direction to make it stop...
 
Scott admitted he was using a Guilty as charged possible source when mentioning which speaker he was hooked to for this performance. I had a few battles with my ITalian Mackies a time or two but never thus far with the EV and Dynacord line. Though I now use the EV mic and had used a Gemini for a few yrs prior.
 
jokerswild said:
Buy a Bose L1 system.... problem solved.
Click to expand...

Rob, you know I ain't gonna let a post this easy to refute get away. :D

Tell ya what... bring yer Bose to one of these high-energy, wall-shaking dance party shows and tell me "problem solved". They'll run yer ass outta town. ;)

Gimme a break, folks. We run 2500 wrms to a pair of bass bins, 1500 wrms to a pair of dually 10" tops and can add a pair of dually 15" boxes with 2000 wrms. We have never had feedback.

That's with a speaker walking in front of the stacks with the wireless Shure. As has been mentioned, you tweak out rings with a pro quality EQ and manage your sound with a compressor/limiter. Pro sound gear makes a world of difference. ;)

In Madness' case, a set of strange mics could well have caused the feedback issue.
 
jokerswild said:
Buy a Bose L1 system.... problem solved.
Click to expand...

Must....Control....Self.....:sqlaugh:

Live sound is a completly different beast. Get in to bands and you relly see a beast

Being in the high winds was a good portion of your problem. In the few times I have usd them I find the Sure wireless to be very sensitive compared to other mics. The last outdoor ceremony I did I had 3 wired condensors hanging inside a gazebo. It was a windy day also and although I was not getting feedback I was getting background noise from the brook about 20ft away and the road about 100 ft away
 
Fred Wright said:
Rob, you know I ain't gonna let a post this easy to refute get away. :D

Tell ya what... bring yer Bose to one of these high-energy, wall-shaking dance party shows and tell me "problem solved". They'll run yer ass outta town. ;)

Gimme a break, folks. We run 2500 wrms to a pair of bass bins, 1500 wrms to a pair of dually 10" tops and can add a pair of dually 15" boxes with 2000 wrms. We have never had feedback.

That's with a speaker walking in front of the stacks with the wireless Shure. As has been mentioned, you tweak out rings with a pro quality EQ and manage your sound with a compressor/limiter. Pro sound gear makes a world of difference. ;)

In Madness' case, a set of strange mics could well have caused the feedback issue.
Click to expand...


For a wedding???????? Must be one hell of a ceremony to need that much sound.... sheesh...
 
Jeff Romard said:
Must....Control....Self.....:sqlaugh:

Live sound is a completly different beast. Get in to bands and you relly see a beast

Being in the high winds was a good portion of your problem. In the few times I have usd them I find the Sure wireless to be very sensitive compared to other mics. The last outdoor ceremony I did I had 3 wired condensors hanging inside a gazebo. It was a windy day also and although I was not getting feedback I was getting background noise from the brook about 20ft away and the road about 100 ft away
Click to expand...

I agree with both you and Fred for a large event where concert level sound is required... but, at a wedding, concert level sound is hardly the call of the day.

Weddings are not the place for that "Wall of Sound" setup.
 
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