Equipment Malfunction, flaw or what?

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ahoustondj

ahoustondj

Mac Daddy DJ
Aug 13, 2007
20,235
3,465
Texas
Last night something odd occurred at my club. I was using a Shure SM 58 mike plugged into a Numark C3FX mixer to a DBX 1231 EQ. The Amp and Speakers! :sqeek: You really don't want to know. All the equipment was not mine.
Anyway at midnight, I had the mike volume a bit high and screamed something into it and lost everything a for about 4 seconds. almost like some sort of protection circuitry was enabled. This has happened to me one before but in that instance it was all professional equipment with a rane mixer, DBX, Crown, QSC and JBL equipment being used. Has this ever happened to anyone before. You scream into a mike and it kills all the sound? How do you prevent this from happening short of speaking moderately?
 
ahoustondj said:
You scream into a mike and it kills all the sound? How do you prevent this from happening short of speaking moderately?
Click to expand...

You don't. I wouldn't run a system WITHOUT this sort of protection. The equipment in question has enough quality to include it ( a limiting circuit/vocal limiter). It's a MUST in karaoke. It protects your speakers, among other things.

If you wish to be loud, DON'T scream, just kick up the volume- that's what the amp is for......:sqwink:

If you MUST scream, for whatever reason, adding a compressor ( if not already included) might keep it from cutting out entirely. However, it will still limit the volume and frequencies of the scream. If a compressor is already included, you're just too freakin' LOUD.


BTW- Did you notice that I didn't ask WHY you were screaming in the first place? I just assumed that you wanted to. :sqcool:
 
The same thing happens to me from time to time during HS events....I just have to remind myself that I have a mic in front of my face and to let it do the work:sqerr: Not sure where the limiting is coming from mixer/rackmount PA/Amp....but glad it's there I suppose.
 
Cripes, I got all excited and thought this thread was going to be about "ED".......:sqrolleyes::sqlaugh::sqwink:

End of Hijack...:sqcool:
 

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Kirby Ball said:
Cripes, I got all excited and thought this thread was going to be about "ED".......:sqrolleyes::sqlaugh::sqwink:

End of Hijack...:sqcool:
Click to expand...

Cialis works better and lasts longer :D:D:D:D:D

Compresor/Limiter is a must.
 
Houston,

Although I can't diagnose your cutout issues I tend to agree that there may be some manner of self-protection in the mixer. Or a circuitry fault that appears during a hot signal. If that's the case, a C/L won't prevent it since the mixer is first in the processing chain, ahead of the C/L.

Another possibility: it could be coming from the amp. An overly hot signal spike may have caused it to go into protect then reset. Some equipment is AC line sensitive. A hot spike could draw the AC down, just for a split second but it's enough to cause a momentary cutout.

Personal experience: We used to run a set of Gemini tabletop CD decks that would cut out when the volume level hit a peak. Like when you're playing Celebration and the crowd shouts "Yahoo!!" The decks would pause for a few seconds then resume playing. It was irritating to say the least and they did that since they were new. There was nothing I could do to stop it.

Thoughts?
 
Esoteric said:
Do most DJs not run compressors/limiters?

Mike
Click to expand...
Most of the DJ rigs I've seen didn't have them. In fact, the standard DJ rig consists of a command center-type case with dually CD decks (or lappytop), mixer and an amp. Not even a 2/3 octave EQ. Run cables to a pair of 15' Eons and there you are. :D
 
Esoteric said:
Do most DJs not run compressors/limiters?

Mike
Click to expand...

In my experience, no. Those that do aren't really sure how to use them. Worse yet, few Dj consoles have inserts that would allow a CLG to be truly useful beyond protecting the output devices from an overdriven signal FROM the mixer, so you end up compressing distortion. It may prevent failure, but it sounds like junk.

Ben
 
JoeChartreuse said:
You don't. I wouldn't run a system WITHOUT this sort of protection. The equipment in question has enough quality to include it ( a limiting circuit/vocal limiter). It's a MUST in karaoke. It protects your speakers, among other things.

If you wish to be loud, DON'T scream, just kick up the volume- that's what the amp is for......:sqwink:

If you MUST scream, for whatever reason, adding a compressor ( if not already included) might keep it from cutting out entirely. However, it will still limit the volume and frequencies of the scream. If a compressor is already included, you're just too freakin' LOUD.


BTW- Did you notice that I didn't ask WHY you were screaming in the first place? I just assumed that you wanted to. :sqcool:
Click to expand...

It was not Karaoke! It was midnight! I was screaming Happy New Year!
 
Esoteric said:
Do most DJs not run compressors/limiters?

Mike
Click to expand...

I have one in MY personal rig and it has never happened to me except in someone else's club or system. I still have a vintage DBX 228 which I used to use to make encoded Cassettes. It played back without any hiss or scratches from vinyl. However, ALL my vinyl are mint with no scratches whatever.
 
Esoteric said:
Do most DJs not run compressors/limiters?

Mike
Click to expand...

I Don't.......[Edit} Yes, my system does....I have a S2, it's built by P.A.S. just for my boxes.
X-Over, Compressor,Limiter,All built in to each channel.

Has some handy mute's on Hi, Low, And Sub

Can adjust the input gains also...

Here's the spec's from P.A.S.:
• Four Pole Linear Phase Dividing
filters.
• Time Offset Correction.
• Precise equalization.
• High pass filters for low frequency
excursion protection.
• Compressors/Limiters for
component protection.
• Subwoofer output.
 
ahoustondj said:
I still have a vintage DBX 228 which I used to use to make encoded Cassettes. It played back without any hiss or scratches from vinyl. However, ALL my vinyl are mint with no scratches whatever.
Click to expand...
Good deal, Houston. DBX is a fine product. :)

We have an older DBX 262 C/L in the processing rack. Ben's mention of making mud with these things is spot on if the operator doesn't know how to set 'em up correctly. The nice thing about the 262, it has only two settings ~ threshhold and ratio. (Actually it has three, the third is level but I don't count that.) It's pretty much set and forget... and it's kinda hard to foul up with just two adjustments. :D

The aspect I love most about a C/L is the ability to place a ceiling on your output. If you're in a venue where volume levels are critical, the C/L will keep you capped, no matter how far you push them sliders. This also helps to control mic feedback. You may still get a ring but the limiting will keep it from feeding on itself. You won't get those ear-splitting honks that blow drivers. If somebody drops your mic, the pop will be squelched and it won't blow your horns.

When we planned our FOH system and processing back in '99 we didn't take advice from DJs. We got our advice from soundmen, folks who work with live sound. The frontend system is DJ, the rest are components that are marketed to live sound applications. It's 100% balanced line from the mixer outs to the crossover ins.

As a result, very few area DJ companies have processing like we do. It's unusual to see a DJ rig bi-amping, let alone using any processing. We've had local DJs look at our racks and say they're glad they don't load all that stuff. I just smile and think... yeah... and I'm glad I ain't responsible for your poor tone. ;)
 
Fred Stewart said:
Good deal, Houston. DBX is a fine product. :)

We have an older DBX 262 C/L in the processing rack. Ben's mention of making mud with these things is spot on if the operator doesn't know how to set 'em up correctly. The nice thing about the 262, it has only two settings ~ threshhold and ratio. (Actually it has three, the third is level but I don't count that.) It's pretty much set and forget... and it's kinda hard to foul up with just two adjustments. :D

The aspect I love most about a C/L is the ability to place a ceiling on your output. If you're in a venue where volume levels are critical, the C/L will keep you capped, no matter how far you push them sliders. This also helps to control mic feedback. You may still get a ring but the limiting will keep it from feeding on itself. You won't get those ear-splitting honks that blow drivers. If somebody drops your mic, the pop will be squelched and it won't blow your horns.

When we planned our FOH system and processing back in '99 we didn't take advice from DJs. We got our advice from soundmen, folks who work with live sound. The frontend system is DJ, the rest are components that are marketed to live sound applications. It's 100% balanced line from the mixer outs to the crossover ins.

As a result, very few area DJ companies have processing like we do. It's unusual to see a DJ rig bi-amping, let alone using any processing. We've had local DJs look at our racks and say they're glad they don't load all that stuff. I just smile and think... yeah... and I'm glad I ain't responsible for your poor tone. ;)
Click to expand...

Actually the Item I have is called a compressor/expander and sometimes called a dbx II 128 Dynamic Range Enhancer Noise Reduction Unit. I do not use it in my present rig because of the RCA inputs and outputs. Is that wrong? Back in the day when I used it a lot, i used to make encoded cassettes which could only be played back through a DBX decoder. DBX at that time was considering using encoded vinyl on a large scale. The idea never took off. I have my DBX 128 coupled with a DBX 100 (Boom Box) in a special rack mount adapter.
 

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Fred Stewart said:
Good deal, Houston. DBX is a fine product. :)




When we planned our FOH system and processing back in '99 we didn't take advice from DJs. We got our advice from soundmen, folks who work with live sound. The frontend system is DJ, the rest are components that are marketed to live sound applications. It's 100% balanced line from the mixer outs to the crossover ins.

As a result, very few area DJ companies have processing like we do. It's unusual to see a DJ rig bi-amping, let alone using any processing. We've had local DJs look at our racks and say they're glad they don't load all that stuff. I just smile and think... yeah... and I'm glad I ain't responsible for your poor tone. ;)
Click to expand...

I couldn't have said it any better myself Wolfie.....
Another DJ was checking out my rig last night, And he noticed my P.A.S. cabs
(and all 4 double 18's) and big azz rack of QSC's and said "Holy $@it"
He gave me compliments on my sound, and gear and said he hoped to be able to afford stuff like that someday.....

he said he was running EV Eliminators, and i told him that's what i started with.....
 
Fred Stewart said:
Most of the DJ rigs I've seen didn't have them. In fact, the standard DJ rig consists of a command center-type case with dually CD decks (or lappytop), mixer and an amp. Not even a 2/3 octave EQ. Run cables to a pair of 15' Eons and there you are. :D
Click to expand...

Isn't that classified as an amateur rig? :rofl:
 
Fred Stewart said:
Most of the DJ rigs I've seen didn't have them. In fact, the standard DJ rig consists of a command center-type case with dually CD decks (or lappytop), mixer and an amp. Not even a 2/3 octave EQ. Run cables to a pair of 15' Eons and there you are. :D
Click to expand...

Ah, but you see Fred, that's DJs. A decent Karaoke Host wouldn't be caught dead without compressor /Limiters. Too many screaming "rock stars" ready to do damage.

Joking aside, for a DJ, music is king, and can be easily adjusted. For a Karaoke Host, it's all about vocals. Yes we can adjust, and do. But amateur vocalists offer way too many surprises. Even a seemingly quiet singer may give a war whoop at the end of a song. These things truly are a must for us.
 
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