What would be your starting price for this system setup?

To many ads? Support ODJT and see no ads!
Mix,
Regardless of the Application my advise is to strive for natural sound. Not because a system can be "heard" by 150 people means that it will sound good. If you have to push speakers that hard where they sound blaring and shrill, that is not good.

You have to be extra careful when using speakers on stands without Subs. That setup is prone to having a blaring sound because of it's lack of DB. As a rule of thumb, I always use subs unless I am doing voice PA only. Full bodied sound does not have to be overkill either.
 
Speakers on sticks without subs doesn't need to be bad. It's all about tailoring to the environment. I don't use subs for Karaoke, as the levels aren't that loud (and the audience generally thanks god for that) and the music doesn't normally have that much low end anyway. I've done small events (50 people) without subs in smaller rooms without anyone noticing (even with a few compliments on the 'bass').

I do agree that I try for quality over quantity. I don't do clubs, and only an occasional gym type setup, so my gear has been selected for listenability, not sheer volume.
 
ahoustondj said:
Mix,
Regardless of the Application my advise is to strive for natural sound. Not because a system can be "heard" by 150 people means that it will sound good. If you have to push speakers that hard where they sound blaring and shrill, that is not good.

You have to be extra careful when using speakers on stands without Subs. That setup is prone to having a blaring sound because of it's lack of DB. As a rule of thumb, I always use subs unless I am doing voice PA only. Full bodied sound does not have to be overkill either.
Click to expand...
That's a big reason for getting the subs. It's not just about getting the subs so you have poles in the subs to mount the tops so it looks good. That's part of it. Also so like you said so that I don't have push the tops to hard.

It's funny that you mention this because where I used to work at for my day job a secretary said I should have been the DJ for her cousins wedding. The reason being that the reception was a in a small room and she said that the DJ had the music playing so loud that when the music wasn't playing, her ears were ringing. Some think that you have to blast the music to impress the people. That's not always needed. The best 2 ways to impress the people is using top professional gear that looks good and you having good skills.
 
steve149 said:
Speakers on sticks without subs doesn't need to be bad. It's all about tailoring to the environment. I don't use subs for Karaoke, as the levels aren't that loud (and the audience generally thanks god for that) and the music doesn't normally have that much low end anyway. I've done small events (50 people) without subs in smaller rooms without anyone noticing (even with a few compliments on the 'bass').

I do agree that I try for quality over quantity. I don't do clubs, and only an occasional gym type setup, so my gear has been selected for listenability, not sheer volume.
Click to expand...

You are kidding me, right! :eek: Karaoke music is the same music without the vocals. Everything else remains including the low end. If not properly reproduced the music can sound like shyt!

I was going to post this in another thread but since it is now relevant I will post it here. 99% of the Karaoke Shows that I have seen are done by DJs using two speakers on sticks. In most cases they use JBL Eons or Powered Speakers, usually two way 12" speakers. In my opinion they sound shrill, tinny, flat and blah!

Case in point. A Sports Bar near to my home has a Karaoke Show on Monday nights. The guy who does it uses two powered Mackies. I could not bear myself to listen to them. Besides which he had one on the ground facing the singer as a monitor and one facing the audience in the Bar. I asked him and he confirmed he was running Stereo. Shows how much he knows about sound.

I went to that same bar with my own Karaoke Production two weeks ago for an Online Group, on a Friday and the people loved it. That same night I was asked to do their St. Patrick's Day Event. I was told yesterday that they also want me to do their Karaoke shows starting in a couple of weeks. The patrons were asking about me. The singers loved the sound because it made them feel like they were singing in a band. With Reverb, effects, full bodied sound etc I had a constant rotation of new singers all night long with no music breaks.

When I ask the Karaoke Jocks/Hosts why they don't use more sound they most often reply with "Thats all that is needed for Karaoke!" I laugh when I hear this. Two speakers on a stick with minimal equipment and a cheap mic will be their weapon of choice! Hahaha
 
ahoustondj said:
You are kidding me, right! :eek: Karaoke music is the same music without the vocals. Everything else remains including the low end. If not properly reproduced the music can sound like shyt!

I was going to post this in another thread but since it is now relevant I will post it here. 99% of the Karaoke Shows that I have seen are done by DJs using two speakers on sticks. In most cases they use JBL Eons or Powered Speakers, usually two way 12" speakers. In my opinion they sound shrill, tinny, flat and blah!

Case in point. A Sports Bar near to my home has a Karaoke Show on Monday nights. The guy who does it uses two powered Mackies. I could not bear myself to listen to them. Besides which he had one on the ground facing the singer as a monitor and one facing the audience in the Bar. I asked him and he confirmed he was running Stereo. Shows how much he knows about sound.

I went to that same bar with my own Karaoke Production two weeks ago for an Online Group, on a Friday and the people loved it. That same night I was asked to do their St. Patrick's Day Event. I was told yesterday that they also want me to do their Karaoke shows starting in a couple of weeks. The patrons were asking about me. The singers loved the sound because it made them feel like they were singing in a band. With Reverb, effects, full bodied sound etc I had a constant rotation of new singers all night long with no music breaks.

When I ask the Karaoke Jocks/Hosts why they don't use more sound they most often reply with "Thats all that is needed for Karaoke!" I laugh when I hear this. Two speakers on a stick with minimal equipment and a cheap mic will be their weapon of choice! Hahaha
Click to expand...

First, Karaoke music IS NOT the same .. it's recorded usually by freelancers "in the style of", and typically does not have the dynamic range or complete audio spectrum that the originals had. It's not the original music without vocals typically.

As to the KJs systems, well, normally, they use crap and typically don't know how to use it, so yea it probably does sound bad. I use reverbs, have a BBE and am planning to get pitch correction and harmonizers to add. Don't use subs unless I also am playing real music for an extended period. The subs don't add anything unless there is content below 50-60hz, which usually isn't there on karaoke tracks.
 
steve149 said:
First, Karaoke music IS NOT the same .. it's recorded usually by freelancers "in the style of", and typically does not have the dynamic range or complete audio spectrum that the originals had. It's not the original music without vocals typically.

As to the KJs systems, well, normally, they use crap and typically don't know how to use it, so yea it probably does sound bad. I use reverbs, have a BBE and am planning to get pitch correction and harmonizers to add. Don't use subs unless I also am playing real music for an extended period. The subs don't add anything unless there is content below 50-60hz, which usually isn't there on karaoke tracks.
Click to expand...
I guess my Subs must be reproducing imaginary notes then! Damn, those notes sure do sound good.:)
 
ahoustondj said:
I guess my Subs must be reproducing imaginary notes then! Damn, those notes sure do sound good.:)
Click to expand...

From CD+Gs, it's the same notes the tops would have been producing if they weren't crossed-over. So, the subs will pump out bass, but unless your volume is over the top for most Karaoke needs, the tops will push out the same dang notes just as well. If the notes aren't there, there's not a whole lot you can do with them.

Real music, different situation .. wasn't talking about that though. Just keeping it real ..
 
steve149 said:
From CD+Gs, it's the same notes the tops would have been producing if they weren't crossed-over. So, the subs will pump out bass, but unless your volume is over the top for most Karaoke needs, the tops will push out the same dang notes just as well. If the notes aren't there, there's not a whole lot you can do with them.

Real music, different situation .. wasn't talking about that though. Just keeping it real ..
Click to expand...
Just so that you know. My tops DO NOT produce low notes. I have dedicated Tweeters and Midranges independently powered in a three way electronic system. When I run two way, I use my Bose 802s which gets only Mids and Highs from its Controller so it never gets any bass. I do not utilize passive crossovers, ever.

This is how I designed my system so that it does not sound like the average DJ system.
 
ahoustondj said:
Just so that you know. My tops DO NOT produce low notes. I have dedicated Tweeters and Midranges independently powered in a three way electronic system. When I run two way, I use my Bose 802s which gets only Mids and Highs from its Controller so it never gets any bass. I do not utilize passive crossovers, ever.

This is how I designed my system so that it does not sound like the average DJ system.
Click to expand...


OK, but don't take it that we are all set up like that, nor is that setup the only one that will sound good. If I use subs, I cross over (actively) around 90Hz to the subs. My tops (depending on which I use) will go down to 50-60 Hz by themselves. If there is little content in the 40-60Hz range (as in the vast amount of Karaoke music), then using the subs really doesn't make a bit of difference in a normal volume scenario (a bit if I have to drive them louder for a large room).
 
I myself at one time had around $10,000.00 in gear. I sold some things to get better things and then decided on some more things to slim down on gear for when my partner can't make it and i've got to work on my own. Things that are more easy to move and i can quickly setup. The setup i'm looking to have now will be over $4,000.00. That will work fine for now.

Houston i can't beleive they just decided to hire you based on you having better equipment to do karaoake. I'll bet it's more then that. Also i bet a lot of DJs foing bars are in to bringine as little as possible as most bars i know don't have their own system and if they do it's usually some cheap crap, as most owners won't spen a whole lot. They care more about how much of a profit they can make then buying exspensive professional gear. Sometimes that can be a good thing as some DJs don't know how to use DJ gear and will mess things up.

You didn't mention which Mackie tops the other DJ was using. There's a big difference between The Thumps and the SRM 450's. As a lot know the Thumps are their entry level powered speakers and sounf like crap. Can i ask what tops are you using?

I would happen to agree that subs aren't really neccessary when doing kataoke because normally most people aren't dancing. They are just there to hear a person sing. Some good and some very bad like me. But it's all in fun mainly.

Also using subs in a bar would depend on 2 major things. How good are the tops and how big the bar is? A friend of mine plays in a bar and leaves his tops on the floor wirhout a sub as this bar is a small place.

The DJ that plays there on Saturday uses a sub and both rock the bar and the bar is normally packed with both of them playing there. I've played there a few times myself but not with the new powered tops i got. That would be more then enough for this bar. If i really cranked them up it would be over kill.

I'll just bet it also had to do with your experience and nice personality that won you over with this bar and not just your gear alone. Remeber no mnatter how great your gear is if you suck as a DJ it really won't matter that your gear is top of the line. All the crowd will say is boy that DJ sucked. Not that the DJ sucked using top of the line gear.

Most won't care what you use just so long as it sounds decent and you know what you're doing.
 
MIXMASTERMACHOM said:
There's a big difference between The Thumps and the SRM 450's.
Click to expand...

I have the SRM450s .. not much difference .. they sound pretty crappy on music too :) .. For presentations, they're great (a very forward mid on them), but the highs are a tad harsh. Work great as monitors as well as they cut through the mix better for the singers. Also work great outdoors as they seem to carry further than some other speakers.
 
MIXMASTERMACHOM said:
Houston i can't beleive they just decided to hire you based on you having better equipment to do karaoake. I'll bet it's more then that. You are correct! When I was there I engaged the audience and made folks feel good after they sang which gave them courage to come back and sing again. Also i bet a lot of DJs foing bars are in to bringine as little as possible That is the problem, they DO bring in as little as possible. as most bars i know don't have their own system and if they do it's usually some cheap crap, as most owners won't spen a whole lot. They care more about how much of a profit they can make then buying exspensive professional gear. Sometimes that can be a good thing as some DJs don't know how to use DJ gear and will mess things up.

You didn't mention which Mackie tops the other DJ was using. I believe it was the SRM 450s There's a big difference between The Thumps and the SRM 450's. As a lot know the Thumps are their entry level powered speakers and sounf like crap. Can i ask what tops are you using? For that show I used Bose 802s Line arrays. Only Hi and Mids going to them. It was a two way electronic system with JBL Scoops as Bottoms. 16ohms each, nice and smooth.

I would happen to agree that subs aren't really neccessary when doing kataoke because normally most people aren't dancing. To me, if they are listening the music should be more demanding. There is more time to judge the sound. They are just there to hear a person sing. Some good and some very bad like me. But it's all in fun mainly.

Also using subs in a bar would depend on 2 major things. How good are the tops and how big the bar is? A friend of mine plays in a bar and leaves his tops on the floor wirhout a sub as this bar is a small place. To me that ridiculous!

The DJ that plays there on Saturday uses a sub and both rock the bar and the bar is normally packed with both of them playing there. I've played there a few times myself but not with the new powered tops i got. That would be more then enough for this bar. If i really cranked them up it would be over kill.

I'll just bet it also had to do with your experience and nice personality that won you over with this bar and not just your gear alone. Knowing how to sell helps. I also brought in a crowd of my own. Remeber no mnatter how great your gear is if you suck as a DJ it really won't matter that your gear is top of the line. All the crowd will say is boy that DJ sucked. Not that the DJ sucked using top of the line gear.

Most won't care what you use just so long as it sounds decent and you know what you're doing.
Click to expand...
Some answers in Blue above. I strive to have my system sound great not decent or mediocre. If you are playing in a bar or Club and the Jukebox sounds better or louder than your system you have a big problem. You get attention when you do better and strive to be the best. People do know a difference when they see and hear it!
 
Houston some might know the difference but most won't know the difference between a Gemini speaker and a JBL speaker nor will they care. All most will care is that it sounds good and you know what you're doing. The real high quality professional DJ gear is for us DJs that know what we're doing and really care what we use. For most i know that has come over learning the difference in Superior quality Pro gear and stuff that's just mediocre.

I personally learned through making mistakes. Buying stuff solely based on price thinking that stuff would be good enough. The lesson i learned over the years is you get what you pay for. That's not only a lesson for DJing but life.

I do agree that i want the sound to be something i can be proud of which in turn the crowd will be impressed.
 
As others have mentioned, DON'T base your pricing off of your equipment. I disagree that equipment is irrelevant, but if you believe you can now charge much more just because you decided to invest in equipment you think is better, you'll be sadly mistaken.

If the equipment you are using is grossly inadequate for the events you are doing, that can cost you too. So, it's possible that new equipment can make DJ feel more confident in booking events, thus being confident in charge more. But I would argue that the person is becoming a better sales person.

A master carpenter can do more with a basic set of tools than an apprentice can with a top of the line set of tools. Same goes for DJing. I am a firm believer that a DJ should get the best equipment they can. Overall, it will make the DJ's life easier and the equipment will probably last longer while giving the client a better experience. That better experience can lead to more demand, which will then help with an increase in fees.

But I know guys that make every "mistake" in the book......2 speakers on sticks, ipods, cheap gear and wires sitting out, yet they are busy as heck because people like THEM, and don't focus on the gear. When someone sucks, people will scrutinize everything...gear included. When the DJ is great, they hardly notice anything else.

Your costs should have nothing to do with your pricing. You should know what your costs are. You should know what you absolutely need to break even. But unless you are booking shows and paying DJs to cover them, costs are mostly irrelevant. You should charge enough to be as busy as you want and having clients feel they got good value so they recommend you to others.
 
My apologies, I should not have used the word irrelevant but I'm just trying to say you don't have to have the very most expensive gear to demand the highest rates. In no way I'm I recommending someone to use subpar equipment. I like having nice equipment because it makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside, not because I think its going to make me more money. Its your DJ/entertaining and sales/marketing skills that will determine the fee you demand.
 
Scott you made some great points. The gear you use won't necessarily get you paid more. It can help with your performance and in time if enough people like what you do and have to offer, then you can raise your rates.

I'm in the process of having another website put up and would love to get a picture of the 2 tops and subs on the stands to put on the website. Even though the site isn't up yet I'm back advertising on Wedplan. They are nice as they have automatic generated prices but lately I've been getting leads from them that the client wants to pay $500.00-$750.00. That's their lowest rate and a lot of those leads are out of the state we're in which is NJ.

Anybody else know of a good place to advertise on the Internet?
 
Just to inform some of you. I can only speak for myself and for my Houston area. In some cases the kind of gear you have does matter and the price goes along with it. If you don't have what the client needs then you don't get the Gig. Remember I am not talking all Wedding Gigs here.

I was riding high at one particular club with my JBL Scoops until another guy came in there with two JBL SRX 728s and 2 Crown iTech Amps. Now to get that Gig back I will have to do better than that.
 
ahoustondj said:
Just to inform some of you. I can only speak for myself and for my Houston area. In some cases the kind of gear you have does matter and the price goes along with it. If you don't have what the client needs then you don't get the Gig. Remember I am not talking all Wedding Gigs here.

I was riding high at one particular club with my JBL Scoops until another guy came in there with two JBL SRX 728s and 2 Crown iTech Amps. Now to get that Gig back I will have to do better than that.
Click to expand...
If it was a club and not a bar then why should you have to bring such gear into this club? I just hope that the money they were paying you was worth it to bring that kind of gear. Did you leave your gear there or did you have to take it with you every time you left the club?
 
My Gear goes in and out with me. If I do leave anything because I have to be there the next day it will only be my JBL Scoops. Clubs and Bars in Houston have only Jukeboxes with extra speakers attached. They act like Venues. It is not uncommon for a regular Bar to have a 400 people capacity. The Club holds much more.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back