What is the "right" thing for this hotel / caterer to do?

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Papa Deuce

Mac Daddy DJ
Aug 8, 2006
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I only heard the intro to the story, but that should be enough. I heard it on 1210 AM in Philly. I may not have the dates correct, but close enough for this debate.


A Bride and Groom have their wedding scheduled at this hotel / caterer for this upcoming Saturday. The total charge is just over $21,000. ( apparently already paid in full according to the radio guy )

Last Wednesday the groom to be dies of a heart attack. The bride to be calls the caterer / hotel within 3 hours. The food hasn't even been ordered yet.

The hotel has said that they will return $5000 of the 21K.

The bride thinks she should get much more back, I guess.... again, I only heard the intro, and not the whole story.

I don't think she should get all of her money back, but I think that what the hotel "should" do, is figure out what costs they have incurred to date, and add the expected amount of NET profit.... Add those together, and subtract it from what was paid, and refund the rest.

What do you think?


I only heard the intro to the story, but that should be enough. I heard it on 1210 AM in Philly. I may not have the dates correct, but close enough for this debate.


A Bride and Groom have their wedding scheduled at this hotel / caterer for this upcoming Saturday. The total charge is just over $21,000. ( apparently already paid in full according to the radio guy )

Last Wednesday the groom to be dies of a heart attack. The bride to be calls the caterer / hotel within 3 hours. The food hasn't even been ordered yet.

The hotel has said that they will return $5000 of the 21K.

The bride thinks she should get much more back, I guess.... again, I only heard the intro, and not the whole story.

I don't think she should get all of her money back, but I think that what the hotel "should" do, is figure out what costs they have incurred to date, and add the expected amount of NET profit.... Add those together, and subtract it from what was paid, and refund the rest.

What do you think?


EDIT: OK, AFTER POSTING THIS, I found the story online. It actually happened in September, and the hotel offered $5000 - $8000, and the woman thinks she should get all but 10% back.

IMO, I guess she doesn't understand that this place probably would have booked another event, had she not already had the date booked.
 
Well I feel somewhat qualified to answer this... or at least offer my opinion anyway.

I would say due to extenuating cercumstance waaaaaaaaay beyond the control of anybody she should be refunded... maybe not all but at least a substancial portion of her payment... if she paid 21000.00 I don't think giving her all but 5000.00 be out of the question...

Consider this... since the event is affectively canceled at this point... no cooks, wait staff, setup crew, or basically any staff that are needed for such an event now have the day off. Also if as you say the food hadn't even been ordered yet... then they have zero food costs.... I imagine their margin is probably fairly large... anyway so by eliminating uneeded staff and so forth that margin is even larger...

Make the bride prove the death by showing a death cert. cut the losses and keep the profit. And if somehow they were able to book the room then what they make off the new client would be gravy....

If they want to stick to their guns that's their right to do so... however, since she's being honest as far as we can tell and hasn't simply gotten cold feet or found a cheaper hall on short notice... I'd give her the benifit of the doubt and refund as much as possible if not it all.

If I had a wedding booked and paid for I know if they were able to produce a death certificate for the groom or even one of the immediate family of the bride or groom I'd be inclined to refund all or at least up to what ever the required deposit was anyway depending on the situation.

In fact a simular situation just came up here for us at the hotel... fortunately for us the reservation system is standing behind us and while we are refunding the guest since it was booked by them they are covering a portion of our loss.
 
Chuck, you still listen to AM radio? ;)

What does the house contract say about cancellations? That's the first question. I am gonna presume the hotel has their collective arse covered.
 
Fred, I don't know, but here is the story:

http://www.philly.com/dailynews/local/20071126_Hotels_stance_aggravates_her_grief.html

ON SEPT. 22, Vickie Jimenez thought she would finally marry the man of her dreams, in a ceremony she'd postponed for years because the couple simply couldn't afford it.

Tragically, just five days before her wedding, her fiance, 37-year-old Patrick "Pat" Martin, died of a heart attack while doing power-washing work on a client's home.

"It seems like a nightmare," Jimenez, 32, said, her voice still shaking with tears. "I lost my best friend."

But for Jimenez, of Southampton, Bucks County, the nightmare has only gotten worse in the weeks since.

Soon after her fiance's funeral, she learned that the Buck Hotel in Feasterville, Bucks County - where she'd planned to hold her wedding and reception - had no intention of refunding more than $20,000 her family had paid for the affair.

Jimenez responded with a heartfelt letter sent on Oct. 23, pleading with the owner of the hotel, Brian Ruhling, to "do the right thing" and give back the $21,725.

"I wrote him that letter and got no response from him. Finally, I got a response they would give back to me $5,000 to $8,000," said Jimenez.

Jimenez was devastated.

"We didn't cancel the wedding because we didn't want to get married," Jimenez said. "I don't understand where he feels he can make $20,000 off of a tragedy."

The Buck Hotel has not backed down from its position, stating that Jimenez must abide by a contract she signed on June 28.

The hotel wouldn't answer questions about the case. "This matter's in litigation. There will be no discussion while it's in litigation," said the Buck's attorney, William MacDermott.

Jimenez has hired a lawyer, Eric Brauer, who has offered a deal: The Buck Hotel could keep $2,000 of the money. But Brauer said the hotel refused, saying its offer of $8,000 to Jimenez is still on the table.

Meanwhile, the other companies that Jimenez hired for her wedding - including her florist and D.J. - have given her refunds.

"Every vendor has refunded the money with condolences," said Jimenez.

"Nobody from the Buck personally contacted me since day one. Not even to say "I'm sorry for your loss," Jimenez said.




Jimenez, who works at Hahnemann Hospital, met Martin when she was 20 years old. The couple grew up in Oxford Circle in Northeast Philadelphia. Martin was a self-employed painter and carpenter.

Jimenez said they had always planned to get married but never had the money - until her aunt offered to pay for the wedding. The couple were thrilled; it had been the dying wish of Jimenez's cancer-stricken mother that the couple marry.

They decided to plan the wedding in three months and were expecting about 175 people to attend. Jimenez said they were delighted when the Buck had an opening on such short notice.

"It was like a sign from my mom," said Jimenez. "Everything fell into place perfectly."

Jimenez knows she signed a contract, but she is puzzled and angry that the hotel won't make an exception in her case - adding that the hotel was notified of Martin's passing within three hours of when it happened, and that none of the food had been ordered yet.

"I don't understand where the justification came from," said Jimenez. "What did he have to do with that 20,000? He didn't have to pay anything."

Jimenez and their son, Christopher Martin, 13, continue to rely on their family and friends for support. On Nov. 4, close friends of the family threw a beef-and-beer fundraiser to help support Jimenez.

Jimenez is grateful; she says the support helps ease the pain of her and her son's loss. But, she admits, it's been a rough couple of months.

"Everyone says one day at a time when it's more like one hour at a time," said Jimenez. "I just hope this will all end." *
 
At the risk of looking insensitive.

Settle for 50%... No more....

Unless they are able to book a similar event in the same room, 50% seems fair. Its a tragedy that she lost her fiancee, but the hotel shouldn't have to take a loss.

Groovielou
 
Lou,

I am going to sound even more insensitive than you.

I think the only thing she should get back is the cost of the food IF it had not already been ordered. If it has, then sorry, but there should be no refund.

Yes, tragedies happen, but the hotel has zero responsibility to take a loss because of this.
 
empathy not sympathy!!!..tragedy happens!..there has been COSTS incurred by the hotel already..planners, decorations, rentals, loss of revenue from possible bookings..i HAVE to be on the side of the hotel..i've been in their shoes as a subcontracted promoter to a convention center..i have spent 1000s of dollars on events only to have those events cancelled due to tragedies!!...not to mention intangable losses...i personally would calculate my current and projected losses and settle there!!!..less than a week out from the event, substantial losses!!
 
Why not have the hotel cater the funeral?

sick to say.....sorry.


I think the hotel can should seek a death certificate as proof, then have the Bride pay for costs endured so far. Cut her some slack, let her get on with her life. Forget about the revenue they would have gotten had the date been booked. That hotel ain't gonna close its doors on account of this matter. But it might based on bad Karma.
 
If it were me (in charge of the venue), I would refund all but expenses already out of my pocket. I would expect it wouldn't be hard to verify what happened.

But then, I am not a greedy, nasty, money hungry sloth :)


For those that are -- what goes around, comes around... :sqwink:
 
From the point of view of somebody that has worked in that industry...calculate your cost (no profit) to date and refund the rest. The hospitality lives and dies on WOM...this is not good publicity for them. This is the type of story that will eventually go national and end up on Oprah.

The right lawyer will argue this as an "act of god" and would invoke that portion of the contract. However, we don't know the verbage of her contract.
 
I don't think she should get all of her money back, but I think that what the hotel "should" do, is figure out what costs they have incurred to date, and add the expected amount of NET profit.... Add those together, and subtract it from what was paid, and refund the rest.
Click to expand...

Just go for it Papa - take all the money and run! You can have a nice BBQ joint :papadeuce:

:evil4:
 
Stick to the contract, each time and every time.

Then, if so inclined, the business/business owner might perform a personal random act of kindness outside of the business contract.

A smart customer might insist on going through with the event if they've already paid for it (and no mutual deal can be struck). I'm sure they are countless number of unfortunate street people who, if invited to such a lovely facility with a splendid menu of food and a plentiful assortment of beverage delights, might consider this a perfect opportunity to brush up on their etiquette if randomly invited to a free party as wedding guests. Might even be tax deductible if played correctly.
 
Judge: Mr. Brian Ruhling, please take the stand. (He does). Mr. Ruhling, have you ever waived any part of your contract?
Brian Ruhling: yes sir, I have.
Judge: The court finds in favor of the plaintiff. Ms. Jimenez, please collect 20 bazillion dollars from the Buck Hotel. Oh, and, yes, please pass go.

Just a little illustration of what could happen if you don't enforce your contract.
 
GoodKnightDJ said:
Judge: Mr. Brian Ruhling, please take the stand. (He does). Mr. Ruhling, have you ever waived any part of your contract?
Brian Ruhling: yes sir, I have.
Judge: The court finds in favor of the plaintiff. Ms. Jimenez, please collect 20 bazillion dollars from the Buck Hotel. Oh, and, yes, please pass go.

Just a little illustration of what could happen if you don't enforce your contract.
Click to expand...

It is not that cut and dry...unless you are on Judge Judy.
 
Cap Capello said:
A smart customer might insist on going through with the event if they've already paid for it (and no mutual deal can be struck). I'm sure they are countless number of unfortunate street people who, if invited to such a lovely facility with a splendid menu of food and a plentiful assortment of beverage delights, might consider this a perfect opportunity to brush up on their etiquette if randomly invited to a free party as wedding guests. Might even be tax deductible if played correctly.
Click to expand...

I love it. :sqlaugh: :sqlaugh: :sqlaugh: :sqlaugh: :sqlaugh:
 
Cap Capello said:
A smart customer might insist on going through with the event if they've already paid for it (and no mutual deal can be struck). I'm sure they are countless number of unfortunate street people who, if invited to such a lovely facility with a splendid menu of food and a plentiful assortment of beverage delights, might consider this a perfect opportunity to brush up on their etiquette if randomly invited to a free party as wedding guests. Might even be tax deductible if played correctly.
Click to expand...

It scares me to think that we think alike Cap :sqwink:

They could be seated by order of odor :rofl:
 
We had a bride in June phone her fiance' passed from a heart attack, only 32 years old. We didn't hold her to the contract and all of the vendors refunded her money.

There is business and then there is acting like a human being, I agree Oprah here they come, wonder how long the hotel would be in business after that show.

Cap, awesome suggestion! Love it!
 
Carolyn said:
We had a bride in June phone her fiance' passed from a heart attack, only 32 years old. We didn't hold her to the contract and all of the vendors refunded her money.

There is business and then there is acting like a human being, I agree Oprah here they come, wonder how long the hotel would be in business after that show.

Cap, awesome suggestion! Love it!
Click to expand...


Are you saying that the hotel should LOSE money? Certainly they had costs.
 
I agree they should refund all of the money. The good publicity and act of kindness would have been a great shot for them if played right. The loss could have been a tax write off and they would come out looking like great humanitarians.
God forbid we forget about being human beings and only think about our business. Screw that.... what is right is right. Not what will make us money but what is the RIGHT thing to do as human beings.

Hell if they wouldn't refund the money I would have had the funeral there.
 
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