Reworking My Large System

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steve149 said:
That's why I like the PbP .. you can run 2 system outputs side by side, or switch to one of them and go full-screen .. or leave one in a small PiP window to monitor.
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Can you post a link to a PiP monitor like one you describe? Not sure it would be a good option, but worth a look. Running two displays side-by-side on a 22 inch monitor, still means the width of either is 11". Now we're back in tablet display size.[emoji1]

I could do 17" laptops. 17" is still a reasonable display size. With laptops, you need stands. The keyboards (being attached) are usually too far away to use comfortably, so I'd still use a separate mouse and keyboard just like I am now. Only advantage I see to a laptop is the battery power. If the power goes off or flickers, the laptop stays powered on... but your powered speakers, controller, mixer, and everything else is still dead, so not a huge advantage.[emoji4] My rack-mounted computers boot back up in less than 90 seconds.


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DJ Bobcat said:
Can you post a link to a PiP monitor like one you describe? Not sure it would be a good option, but worth a look. Running two displays side-by-side on a 22 inch monitor, still means the width of either is 11". Now we're back in tablet display size.[emoji1]

I could do 17" laptops. 17" is still a reasonable display size. With laptops, you need stands. The keyboards (being attached) are usually too far away to use comfortably, so I'd still use a separate mouse and keyboard just like I am now. Only advantage I see to a laptop is the battery power. If the power goes off or flickers, the laptop stays powered on... but your powered speakers, controller, mixer, and everything else is still dead, so not a huge advantage.[emoji4] My rack-mounted computers boot back up in less than 90 seconds.


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Click to expand...
Same monitor I posted does PiP as well as PbP.

These are listed by Newegg as offering PbP: pbp, LCD / LED Monitors, Monitors, Computer Systems - Newegg.com

Here's a Samsung video showing the modes:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Xq4HraZSXY
 
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DJ Ricky B said:
What events do you require your "Large" System for? Also, how often are you gigging with this system?

My large system = Add a pair of Alto 15s to my 12 inch Subs, and 12 speakers. I did that ONCE this past year. Everything else I have goes to every gig, amount of guests, and size of hall determins what speakers I bring, and if I bring a sub or 2.
Click to expand...

What are you hooking your speakers to? How do you control lights? Are you using a single computer for everything?

I use my large system for most gigs... usually in hotel ballrooms and conference centers. Private small parties account for less than 20% of my business, and those are where I use my small system. There's also one particular venue I do frequently, that's upstairs and no elevator, so I use my small system there.

Can you post a pic of your side of the DJ booth?
 
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dunlopj said:
I agree with Ricky. Bobcat, before you go through all this song and dance, look at the last 2 years and determine how many times you used the larger system.

Is it all worth the effort? Just sayin'...

Your smaller system looks like a perfect main system for 95% of all DJ's. Maybe just add more speakers as needed for each event.
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It's not just adding speakers to scale up for larger venues. My large system has lots more features. What's my backup if my small system computer crashes? It's a laptop PC. In my large system, the second computer is running the same playlists as my main DJ computer. I simply push the slider up on the mixer. Controller failure???... switch to the backup computer while I swap in a second controller I take as a backup. No mixer in the small system. No redundancy. There's no difference in the computers (CPU, RAM, etc.), same speakers, the difference is redundancy and added capability. No light controller in my small system. I carry a separate (non-DMX) light controller when I use lights with my small system.

Hooking up additional speakers isn't really an option (for me) like it used to be, since I sold all of them and switched to EVOX 8's. Not a bad thing; just different.[emoji4]
 
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DJ Bobcat said:
It's not just adding speakers to scale up for larger venues. My large system has lots more features. What's my backup if my small system computer crashes? It's a laptop PC. In my large system, the second computer is running the same playlists as my main DJ computer. I simply push the slider up on the mixer. Controller failure???... switch to the backup computer while I swap in a second controller I take as a backup. No mixer in the small system. No redundancy. There's no difference in the computers (CPU, RAM, etc.), same speakers, the difference is redundancy and added capability. No light controller in my small system. I carry a separate (non-DMX) light controller when I use lights with my small system.

Hooking up additional speakers isn't really an option like it used to be, since I sold all of them and switched to EVOX 8's. Not a bad thing; just different.[emoji4]
Click to expand...
For backup, I keep an iPad with a synced set of music (all playlists and a snapshot of common music) connected to the Denon or Rane as the primary backup. Used to have a 2nd computer, but they just don't die like they used to .. :). For very important events, I'll run a second laptop (and the iPad). No need for 2 larger systems. The second laptop would also be used for DMX, unles I can get the dongle to talk to an iPad (I have a couple).
 
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steve149 said:
For backup, I keep an iPad with a synced set of music (all playlists and a snapshot of common music) connected to the Denon or Rane as the primary backup. Used to have a 2nd computer, but they just don't die like they used to .. :). For very important events, I'll run a second laptop (and the iPad). No need for 2 larger systems. The second laptop would also be used for DMX, unles I can get the dongle to talk to an iPad (I have a couple).
Click to expand...

You're right... Computers don't crash very often. My paranoia is based on one event... my very first gig. My computer locked up and I had to reboot it. Took less than 2 minutes, but that was 2 minutes of people standing on the dance floor staring at me. That's when I started building the rack system.

If I want to go really small, I can use something as simple as a laptop (which I use as a backup for my small system) and my new Allen & Heath ZED 10. I have options... good ones... and plenty of them.[emoji1] Then I can use a single EVOX 8, which would still be more than you need for a small event with 25-30 guests.
 
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On my lower rack, I'd like to keep in my Allen&Heath ZED12FX, which I use for karaoke, but that would mean an open top and would make it tough to roll under a table (and still be usable). If I can get the Behringer setup the way I want, it has 4 mic inputs, can sit in the back of the rack, has lots of digital effects, and is controllable either via the laptop or by tablet (I have both iPads and a LG Android tablet).

Then I might be able to pull the Ashly and/or Rane rack mixers ... decisions, decisions ...
 
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steve149 said:
Same monitor I posted does PiP as well as PbP.

These are listed by Newegg as offering PbP: pbp, LCD / LED Monitors, Monitors, Computer Systems - Newegg.com

Here's a Samsung video showing the modes:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Xq4HraZSXY
Click to expand...

OK... That Samsung monitor in the video looks promising. What size do suppose that is; 32 inches? The size of each window is still about 15.6" laptop size... still kinda small for me. But having one monitor instead of two cuts the monitor setup time in half. Would I be willing to accept the trade off???.. Gotta think about that.

I have never seen monitors like that in stores around here. Pretty cool![emoji4]
 
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DJ Bobcat said:
OK... That Samsung monitor in the video looks promising. What size do suppose that is; 32 inches? The size of each window is still about 15.6" laptop size... still kinda small for me. But having one monitor instead of two cuts the monitor setup time in half. Would I be willing to accept the trade off???.. Gotta think about that.

I have never seen monitors like that in stores around here. Pretty cool![emoji4]
Click to expand...
That one is 28" ... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IEZGWI...targid=kwd-67724171821&ref=pd_sl_7v5t5rmdm5_e

There's a newer version: https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-U28E590D-28-Inch-LED-Lit-Monitor/dp/B00YD3DBOC
 
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steve149 said:
PiP is OK, but PbP (Picture-by-picture) will make a monitor look like 2 monitors shoved together. There's a bunch out there like this one: ASUS PB277Q 27" 1ms (GTG) TN Panel Widescreen LCD/LED Monitor, Height, Tilt, Pivot and Swivel Adjustment, Built-in Speakers, Extensive Connectivity with Native WQHD Content - Newegg.com
Click to expand...

27" is only 5" larger than one of my current monitors. I wish they had try-before-you-buy so I could try one of those monitors out to see if it's workable for me.[emoji4]


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It's pretty easy to return via Amazon or BB.
 
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I was looking into larger tablet computers, like 20", thinking I could simply replace my controller, computer, and monitor with one tablet. The Denon MC6000MK2 is 19" wide... That's on the small side for a controller, but I like mine a lot. The size is fine, but anything smaller might be a challenge.

Here's the rub, though. The options for 20" tablets are few. They're also pricy. Some are simply touch screen monitors with small computer boxes attached on the back. Disregarding price, there's other drawbacks. Controllers have professional sound cards... tablets don't. Controllers have mic inputs... tablets, not so much. XLR outputs, and monitor out connections? Not on a tablet. Also, there's something about the tactile nature of the knobs and sliders of a controller you just would not have on a tablet. I suppose I could get used to it if I wanted to.[emoji4] I'd have to solve those other issues first.


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steve149 said:
On my lower rack, I'd like to keep in my Allen&Heath ZED12FX, which I use for karaoke, but that would mean an open top and would make it tough to roll under a table (and still be usable). If I can get the Behringer setup the way I want, it has 4 mic inputs, can sit in the back of the rack, has lots of digital effects, and is controllable either via the laptop or by tablet (I have both iPads and a LG Android tablet).

Then I might be able to pull the Ashly and/or Rane rack mixers ... decisions, decisions ...
Click to expand...

Got pics?... Would love to see how you're set up?[emoji4]


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DJ Bobcat said:
Got pics?... Would love to see how you're set up?[emoji4]


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No .. it's all in parts/pieces right now. I pulled all the gear I had in those cases I was selling.
 
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Also, I'd like a new 10RU (size TBD though) rack (the one I have was the amp rack to my old system). I like ATA racks, but they weigh too much. If I can't find a thin paneled one, I might get a new plastic one.
 
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steve149 said:
That one is 28" ... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IEZGWI...targid=kwd-67724171821&ref=pd_sl_7v5t5rmdm5_e

There's a newer version: https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-U28E590D-28-Inch-LED-Lit-Monitor/dp/B00YD3DBOC
Click to expand...

If that was 28", it didn't look too bad. The nice thing about my small system is that 23" AIO computer just folds down over the top of the rack like a lid, and it's the same width as the rack. I wish I could say I planned it that way, but it was actually just dumb luck.[emoji1]

If I put a big 28-32" monitor on my large system, it would overhang on the sides significantly, would make it harder to roll through doors, and would prevent putting a top on the slant top rack. So I'd still have to carry it in a separate case and set it up at the gig.

I'm betting I can mount a 20" AIO computer in the lid of the SKB slant top rack, put a hinge on the lid, and that would be very similar to what I've got with my small system. Maybe then, the TOP rack of my large system BECOMES my small system. If I mount the second computer in the bottom rack, I just marry the two racks up, and there you go... large system.[emoji4] Still have to resolve the issue of the monitor for the second computer, though.[emoji1]
 
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steve149 said:
Also, I'd like a new 10RU (size TBD though) rack (the one I have was the amp rack to my old system). I like ATA racks, but they weigh too much. If I can't find a thin paneled one, I might get a new plastic one.
Click to expand...

Well, then you've probably been thinking about a lot of the same issues as me... only not posting them on a DJ forum.[emoji1] This thread is probably pretty boring to most others if they don't have or want a rack system. Posting the pro's and con's of the many options helps me to think things through, and the feedback from others is even more helpful! Thanks for ALL your suggestions.[emoji4]


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steve149 said:
Also, I'd like a new 10RU (size TBD though) rack (the one I have was the amp rack to my old system). I like ATA racks, but they weigh too much. If I can't find a thin paneled one, I might get a new plastic one.
Click to expand...

My current rack is a 14U Gator Cases rack... the plastic one. It's quite a bit lighter than their wooden sided rack, which was why I selected it. Funny thing is... the 20 pounds or so difference make NO difference at all... it's still too heavy for me to lift.[emoji1]

14U is too big for a single rack. Right now, 1U is a blank plate and 3U is a drawer, so only 10U of actual gear. The keyboard drawer is also VERY heavy... I eliminated the one in my small system in favor of just a 1U drawer for stuff. I like having drawers for mics and other items in the rack, but they make them out of steel for strength, and it's just too much weight. I could carry all the stuff in a small canvas bag. Bags are another issue for another thread.[emoji1]

Gator Cases makes a 10U plastic rack. One thing about plastic racks like mine though, is the plastic loses a bit of its shape over time. Mine is still OK, but the sides are a little rippled.[emoji1] It sits under my table and behind my table cloth, so it's not visible to the guests anyway. It's not likely anyone would notice but me.
 
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My goal is to make my gear modular .. building off a central hub. The "front ends" will have minimal gear and minimal expansion .. useful for very small needs. The "hub" will have everything else needed for DJ/Karaoke .. including more mic inputs, more wireless (including that for remote speakers), DSP processing (both for vocals and speakers), other music sources (CD, BT), possible drawer storage.

Right now I have 2 front ends .. though not sure I still need 2, as the "hub" can function with just an iPad or laptop as a backup, and I have mini-controllers in an emergency .. so the Rane MP25/Denon DN-HC4500 might be sold off at some point, though I like that mixer. I also have a little system (like a ceremony system) that currently has a Rolls and a Rane MP4 mixer inside.

This is my Winter project .. to figure it all out.
 
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DJ Bobcat said:
My current rack is a 14U Gator Cases rack... the plastic one. It's quite a bit lighter than their wooden sided rack, which was why I selected it. Funny thing is... the 20 pounds or so difference make NO difference at all... it's still to heavy for me to lift.[emoji1]

14U is too big for a single rack. Right now, 1U is a blank plate and 3U is a drawer, so only 10U of actual gear. The keyboard drawer is also VERY heavy... I eliminated the one in my small system in favor of just a 1U drawer for stuff. I like having drawers for mics and other items in the rack, but they make them out of steel for strength, and it's just too much weight. I could carry all the stuff in a small canvas bag. Bags are another issue for another thread.[emoji1]

Gator Cases makes a 10U plastic rack. One thing about plastic racks like mine though, is the plastic loses a bit of its shape over time. Mine is still OK, but the sides are a little rippled.[emoji1] It sits under my table and behind my table cloth, so it's not visible to the guests anyway, but it's not likely anyone would notice but me.
Click to expand...
I think my current 10U plastic rack is a Gator. I also have a SKB GigRig which houses my A&H mixer on top .. arggghhh
 
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