QSC KW

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S

stewsdjrescue

New DJ
Sep 2, 2007
178
1
35
MD
www.impactdj.com
Currently own two QSC HPR 122i tops and 181 subs. It's kind of difficult to store and transport the subs. I was looking at the new KW series as they are lighter and more compact. How does this perform and sound compared to the HPR series? The KW wattages are stated to be higher, is this the case or is it just marketing?

Thanks for the help.
 
Never compared them directly, but I would surmise that the HPR might have a slight sound edge based on other reports. I listened to the KW112 vs the K12 and really liked it. Don't buy into the wattage hype though, either is sufficient. I don't think the KW112 is any different in size but I'm with you on the weight. I really want the KW153 .. they look seriously nice (at least on paper), but they're heavier than my Yorkville Unity tops and those are already a bit heavy for my back. Stay away from the KW152 though, as the horn is very tight at 60 degrees .. good for stage work, not so much for DJ work .. not enough spread for close use.
 
Steve is right on... I just picked up the KW181 and so far, it really sounds nice. Very musical with plenty of low end. Very easy to move around on the wheels and kind of awkward to lift, because of the width.
 
Stewart...I hear ya about the HPR181i's I have 2 of them and they are not an easy move. All forgotten once I light them up though. Good sound, but Oh my back!
Try hanging a pair of 152i's on tripods. That'll have ya reaching for the pain killers!

Best,

Paul
 
steve149 said:
Never compared them directly, but I would surmise that the HPR might have a slight sound edge based on other reports.
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What was the report saying or referring to? Will I be stepping backward if I go from the HPR to the KW? I'd think the KW would be the same if not better. I just need something more mobile since I can't do the HPR181i by myself and the KW181 looks like it would be easier.
 
I've listened to the KW181. These use "plate amps". The HPRi use a derivative of a RMX 2450. I'm old school, and never been able to take a liking to the plate amp "Class D" sound. Especially on woofers........ There just wasn't enough "better" for me to consider the KW's over what I have now. LOL the new 3 way 153's have pole sockets! Good luck hoisting them onto the poles or tripod stands without help.

Best,

Paul
 
I've listened to the KW181. These use "plate amps". The HPRi use a derivative of a RMX 2450.
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Sorry bro... I don't believe for a second that your ear can hear the difference between amplifiers.
 
djmm said:
Sorry bro... I don't believe for a second that your ear can hear the difference between amplifiers.
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Plate Amps and Plastic Boxes go hand in hand. You can tell the difference between a robust system and a loud blaring one.
 
You can tell the difference between a lousy and a good system, but plastic cases and plate amps don't by themselves make something lousy. Toroidal amps used to be able to handle transients (kick drum, etc.) better, but current class D/H plate amps keep up equally as well .. and most powered speakers today use switching amps due to the weight savings.

There is definitely an unfounded bias against plastic boxes, but no real blind testing proving wood superiority to a well designed cabinet. Vibration is usually the culprit in cheap plastic cases, but a well designed plastic case will match the best wood cases. Like anything .. you can get crap or quality in any denomination.
 
+1 on everything Steve said!!!!! There is no way that anyone can hear a difference between properly designed & constructed PA amps with the same output or plastic boxes vs wood cabinets. I love reading people who swear they hear it, other people blindly believing them and then passing that info on as fact. :(
 
Scott Harris said:
+1 on everything Steve said!!!!! There is no way that anyone can hear a difference between properly designed & constructed PA amps with the same output or plastic boxes vs wood cabinets. I love reading people who swear they hear it, other people blindly believing them and then passing that info on as fact. :(
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Maybe not all but there are some boxes I can tell. The JBL Eons, Mackies and QSC K Series almost without a doubt. Most likely it is also because those chaps don't use any processing on them.
 
Case in point 1: 2 PLX3402's one driving a pair of JBL SR4718X 18" woofers, the other driving a 3 way SR4735X 3 way tops. The bass is not tight. I'd be using a Dbx 233XL crossover set between 80 an 100Hz as the crossover point.

Case in point 2: Same speakers driven by a pair of Crown Macro-Tech 2402's WHOA.....now listen to the bass......tight tight tight. Same crossover and settings.

Now take a pair of Bridged Crown K2's and throw them on a pair of JBL SR4719X dual 18" sub, and take a Crown Macro-Tech 5002VZ and throw it on the same tops. It gets REAL interesting!

Scoot, you are reasonably close to me, make a trip out sometime when we are both free...I'll make a believer out of you.

I've got nothing against plastic cabs, however I just dont like 'em. I like a well made wood cab, knock on the side of any JBL SRX cabinet....very inert...now go knock on any plastic cab. Too much old-school in me, however when I run one of my bigger setups properly amped, crossed over and processed...what I usually hear from folks is "Holy Sh*t!", or "you sound better than the other DJ's I've heard". That's good enough for me. I've done 4 different weddings now for some decent producers, one of which has recorded some well known bands. When we first talked about his wedding he said to me: "You are one of the few that's doing DJ work with equipment I can believe in".

Best,

Paul
 
USDJ said:
Case in point 1: 2 PLX3402's one driving a pair of JBL SR4718X 18" woofers, the other driving a 3 way SR4735X 3 way tops. The bass is not tight. I'd be using a Dbx 233XL crossover set between 80 an 100Hz as the crossover point.

Case in point 2: Same speakers driven by a pair of Crown Macro-Tech 2402's WHOA.....now listen to the bass......tight tight tight. Same crossover and settings.

Now take a pair of Bridged Crown K2's and throw them on a pair of JBL SR4719X dual 18" sub, and take a Crown Macro-Tech 5002VZ and throw it on the same tops. It gets REAL interesting!

Scoot, you are reasonably close to me, make a trip out sometime when we are both free...I'll make a believer out of you.

I've got nothing against plastic cabs, however I just dont like 'em. I like a well made wood cab, knock on the side of any JBL SRX cabinet....very inert...now go knock on any plastic cab. Too much old-school in me, however when I run one of my bigger setups properly amped, crossed over and processed...what I usually hear from folks is "Holy Sh*t!", or "you sound better than the other DJ's I've heard". That's good enough for me. I've done 4 different weddings now for some decent producers, one of which has recorded some well known bands. When we first talked about his wedding he said to me: "You are one of the few that's doing DJ work with equipment I can believe in".

Best,

Paul
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That is what I am talking about Paul. You stand head and shoulders above your competition. I am sure they do take notice and your command a higher level of respect.
 
USDJ said:
Case in point 1: 2 PLX3402's one driving a pair of JBL SR4718X 18" woofers, the other driving a 3 way SR4735X 3 way tops. The bass is not tight. I'd be using a Dbx 233XL crossover set between 80 an 100Hz as the crossover point.

Case in point 2: Same speakers driven by a pair of Crown Macro-Tech 2402's WHOA.....now listen to the bass......tight tight tight. Same crossover and settings.

Now take a pair of Bridged Crown K2's and throw them on a pair of JBL SR4719X dual 18" sub, and take a Crown Macro-Tech 5002VZ and throw it on the same tops. It gets REAL interesting!

Scoot, you are reasonably close to me, make a trip out sometime when we are both free...I'll make a believer out of you.

I've got nothing against plastic cabs, however I just dont like 'em. I like a well made wood cab, knock on the side of any JBL SRX cabinet....very inert...now go knock on any plastic cab. Too much old-school in me, however when I run one of my bigger setups properly amped, crossed over and processed...what I usually hear from folks is "Holy Sh*t!", or "you sound better than the other DJ's I've heard". That's good enough for me. I've done 4 different weddings now for some decent producers, one of which has recorded some well known bands. When we first talked about his wedding he said to me: "You are one of the few that's doing DJ work with equipment I can believe in".

Best,

Paul
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To be fair, let's compare apple to apples .. If you used a QSC PL236 or 340 instead of the 3402 (a closer match to the MA2402), you'd have a different result, so I wouldn't write off the switching amps just yet ;) . The SRXs are one of the best overall cabinets out there (time will tell on the STX). Larger cabinets are not a good fit for plastic due to issues with mold conformity over the large area, but they're getting there. For the area they work well in (8-15" 2/3 way tops), you would be hard pressed to identify the "plastic" as the reason that a cabinet sounds bad .. I can come up with a lot of bottom feeding plywood cabinets that sound worse.
 
ahoustondj said:
Maybe not all but there are some boxes I can tell. The JBL Eons, Mackies and QSC K Series almost without a doubt. Most likely it is also because those chaps don't use any processing on them.
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I have heard the K12s and they are great speakers. I've owned the Mackie SRM450s and they're not in the same league. For what they are, I would put them up against any other 12" 2-way powered speaker and they'll hold their own. The wood enclosures sound different (different resonant frequencies), but that isn't always "better", just different, assuming you're comparing similar boxes.
 
steve149 said:
I have heard the K12s and they are great speakers. I've owned the Mackie SRM450s and they're not in the same league. For what they are, I would put them up against any other 12" 2-way powered speaker and they'll hold their own. The wood enclosures sound different (different resonant frequencies), but that isn't always "better", just different, assuming you're comparing similar boxes.
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Steve, maybe it is the applications/venues. When I think of sound I think of using the system in a crowded club 400 or more people. Unless it is an installed system with satellite and fill speakers, the alternative, especially for a Guest DJ is to setup in one area and project to the audience/Club.

This is where they fall short with projection. They then tend to raise the volume and the High frequencies begin to scream and Mids blare. If they are running their tops in full range the lows begin to get muddy. (Remember bass is better at floor level) Oh yes, there are many DJs I have seen who use their "tops" in Full Range, attempting to get "extra bass".

What most can get away using in a Wedding or small venue application cannot do justice in a Gym, Outdoor or Venues for 300 plus. Those larger venues require more "body" and naturalness to the sound. In conjunction to this, acoustics come into play. Bad acoustics in a venue without the ability of proper processing to tailor the sound can make even great speakers/system sound bad.

You also have to remember I prefer Live Sound style systems vs regular DJ setups. So indeed I do have a bias. That has always been my goal, to deliver that natural effortless sound.
 
Stew,
I cannot directly compare the 2. I've only heard the K12's, and I believe they sounded excellent. My personal experience has been that my customers love good quality, low profile, gear.

We all have different businesses to run, and different target markets, and different customers. But for me, I've received more glowing praise about sound since I've switched to good quality, modern, more compact equipment. Believe me, brides notice. When I can keep the bride happy with a smaller profile, and the groom happy with great sound...and me happy because everything is super easy to transport and set up, it's a win-win-win.

Last year, at a company party, I had a guest come up and comment on his wedding. He said the DJ had 4 huge speakers and 2 huge subs, 2 racks on wheels, and trusses with lights. He said it took up a whole wall that they had decorated. He asked the DJ why he needed so much stuff, and the DJ told him that he had to have that to have good sound for the 250 people that were there. He said we sounded better...and the first thing his wife noticed was....she couldn't even see the DJ set-up. He said no one could miss the DJ set up as his wedding.

I'm certainly not saying small beats larger in every application. It just does for every event I do. Plus having the versatility of my gear being able to be quickly set up in another room or outside for ceremony, cocktail or dinner is great.

I'm sure there are plenty of DJs using small cheap gear that makes them look bad too. Just as there are some DJs that use old large outdated gear that makes them look bad as well. Bad gear comes in all sizes.

Everyone should use what works for them. But Stew, if you are looking at some more compact options, I'm here to tell you you'll have plenty of good quality options out there.
 
ahoustondj said:
Steve, maybe it is the applications/venues. When I think of sound I think of using the system in a crowded club 400 or more people. Unless it is an installed system with satellite and fill speakers, the alternative, especially for a Guest DJ is to setup in one area and project to the audience/Club.

This is where they fall short with projection. They then tend to raise the volume and the High frequencies begin to scream and Mids blare. If they are running their tops in full range the lows begin to get muddy. (Remember bass is better at floor level) Oh yes, there are many DJs I have seen who use their "tops" in Full Range, attempting to get "extra bass".

What most can get away using in a Wedding or small venue application cannot do justice in a Gym, Outdoor or Venues for 300 plus. Those larger venues require more "body" and naturalness to the sound. In conjunction to this, acoustics come into play. Bad acoustics in a venue without the ability of proper processing to tailor the sound can make even great speakers/system sound bad.

You also have to remember I prefer Live Sound style systems vs regular DJ setups. So indeed I do have a bias. That has always been my goal, to deliver that natural effortless sound.
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Yes, but a 12" 2-way top is not a good fit for a 400 person club, so someone has the wrong parts. A 2 way 12" (largest for the K series) would be the wrong top to bring for a Gym or outdoor event as well, unless it is a small event. Critiquing a product clearly in the wrong environment isn't quite fair. Once you move to the big guns, you'll rarely find plastic boxes, not because plastic is bad, it's issues with molding, finish protection and the like for the larger sizes, that make the more expensive plywood boxes the better solution.
 
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