Contrary to what he was stating, I do value and take advice from here. Just not ALL of it.
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- Thread starter rickryan.com
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Contrary to what he was stating, I do value and take advice from here. Just not ALL of it.
Last place i'd take advise on a venue is on a DJ Forum and or Mixxy.LOL
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To go back to a preview issue mentioned here, about the value/importance of other vendors and how they can affect a couples decision. This JUST happened today.
A couple signed with a venue. Couple had a call with me, loved me and asked to move forward. They also asked me to sign a 2 page document agreeing to the rules of the venue. I called back and said I couldn't bc of 2 rules:
- The use of an In house sound system. I do NOT agree to this unless the couple agrees to not hold me responsible for any sound quality issues (distortion, lack of bass, ear piercing frequencies), as well as be responsible for any repair bills that may come up through its NORMAL use. I'ver had too many issues w low quality systems or low volume systems and have actually had couples think it was my system, until I explained it was the venues and they get annoyed that no one told them.
- Only 30 minutes to breakdown. Excess of 30 minutes results in loss of security deposit. I need a minimum of 1hr for what they're asking me to provide. Usually breakdown is only 45 minutes, but still ask for an hour just in case. Even with a small package, I won't guarantee 30 minutes, as I often get caught in conversation with couples who are saying good bye/thanking me/giving me a tip etc.
The couple really wants me and are prepared to cancel their venue. They also want me for the quality I bring and that I'd be providing a better quality sound system, and one that can be troubleshooted if needed. They responded to the venue with 3 options (in a more cordial way than I wrote it below):
- Allow me to use my sound system as it is superior to what they have (I said I'd follow their noise limits if the couple is ok with that limit). Also to Extend my breakdown time to an hour.
- We oblige to their rules but they guarantee a negative review will be written for the excessive restrictions that were sprung up after signing, and lack of flexibility.
- Allow them to cancel their contract.
Allowing them to cancel their contract will still leave a couple and vendors speaking negatively of them, as well as having to find a new couple for that date. So 2/3 options would leave the venue in a negative outcome with the couple. They'd also now have a vendor (I'm sure I'm not the only one) who will be turning away their clients making them look bad in the long run if this keeps happening.
As a venue owner how would you handle this.
A couple signed with a venue. Couple had a call with me, loved me and asked to move forward. They also asked me to sign a 2 page document agreeing to the rules of the venue. I called back and said I couldn't bc of 2 rules:
- The use of an In house sound system. I do NOT agree to this unless the couple agrees to not hold me responsible for any sound quality issues (distortion, lack of bass, ear piercing frequencies), as well as be responsible for any repair bills that may come up through its NORMAL use. I'ver had too many issues w low quality systems or low volume systems and have actually had couples think it was my system, until I explained it was the venues and they get annoyed that no one told them.
- Only 30 minutes to breakdown. Excess of 30 minutes results in loss of security deposit. I need a minimum of 1hr for what they're asking me to provide. Usually breakdown is only 45 minutes, but still ask for an hour just in case. Even with a small package, I won't guarantee 30 minutes, as I often get caught in conversation with couples who are saying good bye/thanking me/giving me a tip etc.
The couple really wants me and are prepared to cancel their venue. They also want me for the quality I bring and that I'd be providing a better quality sound system, and one that can be troubleshooted if needed. They responded to the venue with 3 options (in a more cordial way than I wrote it below):
- Allow me to use my sound system as it is superior to what they have (I said I'd follow their noise limits if the couple is ok with that limit). Also to Extend my breakdown time to an hour.
- We oblige to their rules but they guarantee a negative review will be written for the excessive restrictions that were sprung up after signing, and lack of flexibility.
- Allow them to cancel their contract.
Allowing them to cancel their contract will still leave a couple and vendors speaking negatively of them, as well as having to find a new couple for that date. So 2/3 options would leave the venue in a negative outcome with the couple. They'd also now have a vendor (I'm sure I'm not the only one) who will be turning away their clients making them look bad in the long run if this keeps happening.
As a venue owner how would you handle this.
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Rick will have to figure that out for his purposes.
Generally, we can't really answer that without knowing the specifics of the venue. For example, there are locations where city or town ordinances prohibit musical performances at public venues within the delineated or historic zones. Hence - a meeting or event space in that zone would have to comply or risk a loss of their license. These ordinances are NOT specifically about music - they often site zoning, traffic, building regulations, commerce and other considerations. While it may be perfectly fine to host a wedding reception, a wedding "party" may not be the type of client they want or can accommodate.
A business that is licensed as a restaurant can easily host a wedding reception for dinner but, may be legally prohibited from live music, DJs, and dancing. Could they accommodate a trio or chamber music? Perhaps even a first or parent dances? Probably, but it's impact and character would still have to fit within the confines of their license as a restaurant rather than an event space.
DJs are obviously focused on the "party" aspect of a wedding - but there is a much broader hospitality industry surrounding weddings than what is seen by your typical wedding Dj or band. It's not unusual to find softer styled brunch events or dinner receptions (sans entertainment) associated with weddings. Especially 2nd marriages, and older couples. "Boutique" style receptions often do not use bands or DJs.
If the venue truly did not make conditions like these known before closing, then a penalty free for cancellation is unwarranted. On the other hand, if the client is merely trying to push the envelope in a space where there is no room for deviation and that was disclosed prior to booking - cancellation fees could easily be defended if worth the pursuit, (This is typically true with highly regarded and popular sites.)
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It’s a wedding venue nothing else. They are ending 1hr before any town ordinances (they write in the rules music must be done by a certain time due to town curfew). They are a traditional wedding venue in the sense that the clients have 2-3hrs of dancing time In Their timeline (they provided the suggested timeline in advance).
They said they weren’t made aware of this prior to signing but that’s irrelevant. They want me. They said either meet our needs, particularly with the breakdown times, deny and we’ll continue with their rules but the clients guarantee a negative review, or allow them to cancel as they’re upset by the limitations that any DJ they hypothetically hire would have to follow.
I saw this with respect, that is only because of YOU and your reputation. That never happens to us "normal DJs". DJs are typically low man on the totem pole, somewhere just north of parking lot attendants.
As much as I wish I was something special, I promise you I’m not the only one regarded in this way. Look at all these djs on Tik tok and instagram with massive following, who honestly command double what I do. I’m not your only upper tier dj that exists… and all upper tier djs are upper tier bc of their demand.I saw this with respect, that is only because of YOU and your reputation. That never happens to us "normal DJs". DJs are typically low man on the totem pole, somewhere just north of parking lot attendants.
30 minutes for tear down from the end of an event? That is ridiculous! I would raise a gripe about that, and not sign it too.
I have worked at venues that have super fast caterers who load up and clean up super fast, and the venue manager or associate left there at the end of the night is rushing me to clear out. I have even had them turn the lights off on me in the parking lot as I was loading my car up. ...BUT even those venues stated in their agreement to the client that 1 hour is given for load out.
...Venue sound systems, I'll use them if the venue requires it. Usually, it's either a large venue and they do have a pretty good sound system, OR it's a venue that had noise ordinance problems, and so many problems with a nearby neighbor due to excessively loud DJs in the past they they installed some basic 8" or 10" speakers in the ceilings and have no subs. The bride/groom in this case understands the sound quality is what it is. Only dealt with that twice in the past. One venue was in PA just this past January 2nd.
I have no issue with a sound system as long as couple acknowledges it'll likely be inferior to what I provide and I'm not responsible for any issues that arise. For example, one venue last year had no bass. When couple heard it during sound check, they flipped out and venue said ok bring in my sound system. Another one, also last year had distortion coming in. They thought it was me, but when I plugged the xlrs into my monitor it was perfect, so we knew it was an issue on their end. They had no tech on site and they had no choice but to let me use mine. So again, as long as couples understand I have no control on the quality, I'll accept. Has nothing to do with volume issues, as I'll gladly play my system within the limits.
1hr breakdown I'm ok with (unless it's stairs). Even 45 minutes I can tolerate... 30 min you're pushing the boundaries of realistic, even with a small setup and thats with 2 people. In this case it's ceremony rack, main rack, 40 uplights and 2 moving heads, lighting control, photo booth and dancing on clouds. I have 3 people breaking down.
And let's put aside the dj being the complaining vendor. What if a client wants an elaborate floral backdrop that requires 4hrs to complete and then 1hr to breakdown, even with a team of 5. Some florists are there 3hrs breaking down. What I brought up was not in regards to the specific rule in itself, it's talking about how rules that are outside the norm can create situations that are uncomfortable for a venue to navigate when a couple pushes back on them bc it prohibits them from accomplishing their vision.
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The venue is simply securing its' own best interest. There's nothing wrong with 30 minutes to strike an event. They are simply saying that vendors need to have their own sufficient staff and crew to vacate the room in the time required. This is common at any venue that books space on a continuing basis.
The way they clock it may be unusual but, the message is simple: dissuade clients from the over-the top production that often accompanies some types of events or entertainers unless they have the staff to do it effectively and efficiently.
I do this myself for other vendors/suppliers that I often work with. I will join their crew at setup or strike for a given location to help meet whatever deadlines they face.
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Sure the vendors have to have their own sufficient staff... however, each staff member for this exact situation is outlined in my contract at a cost of $400, so 2 more to guarantee this breakdown (total team of 4 of us) will cost the client nearly $1000 more. So, yes, they're going to fight for that extra half hour. And genuinely speaking as someone who travels all over and has covered a large number of venues (I hardly do the same venue 2x in a year), I've yet to see a venue provide less than 1hr of breakdown time.
Regardless, the point of this is now to see how the venue responds to a client that is going against the norm of what that venue is trying to establish.
I made a thread a while ago about us not having enough time to get things setup on time . We were a few minutes late getting the music playing. There was another event in the room we were to be doing the event in. So we had to wait until the event before us cleared out the room and they had a lot of stuff to get out of the room after the event time for them was over. The window was tight for us to get setup after that event was completely finished with getting everything they had in the room out. I will say it again. It was a good thing the event was for family. If it was for someone else, they may have not been happy that we didn't have the music playing exactly at the time the event was to start..
The venue itself was a nice place with multiple rooms to host different events in the venue.
The venue itself was a nice place with multiple rooms to host different events in the venue.
The difference between your situation and mine… I’m being proactive in handling it. In addition, I know my time constraints and will turn down an event if I can’t meet the requirements of the venue, or charge the client accordingly to make it happen.
Have you or the couple directly contacted the venue personally about the time you'd each liked to have for load in and strike - or is this simply being rapidly escalated in response to something you read on a piece of paper? I don't think an 'us versus them' approach is necessarily the best idea.
Sometimes - it's how people react to adversity that reveals the most about them.
When I have a complex event that needs unique work - I go there personally to talk with the venue about the event and determine how we can best work together. We talk about what precedes this event and what follows; what their priorities are and what I am being asked to accomplish. I presume from the outset that BOTH of us are on the same page and want a customer who is very pleased with their event and the services they receive.
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I was told the date of the event and location. I don't know if the family knew about an event on the same day being in the same room before their event. If I can remember I believe it was an hour between events. The first event was over at 5PM and the family event was to start at 6PM. So two things not in our favor were when the people were going to start taking their stuff out the room after their event was over.
What I remember that event was a baby shower. So once the time for that event to end, they were going to spend a few extra minutes in the room because of the kind of event it was.
I've learned that venues around here prefer to hear an issue from the couple. If a vendor complains or has an issue with something, they likely just say you figure it out or that they don't think it's an issue if the couple doesn't express it. If a client makes an issue of something, the venues almost always make an effort to resolve it.
In addition, you may go to the physical location, but we're dealing with venues 2.5hrs away. So different circumstances...also for many of the venues we frequent you have different teams that handle the day of items compared to the sales aspects. So going on a weekday you're dealing with the sales person who is not present the day of or making these decisions, not the person that will directly need to be in the know and has more authority in these matters.
Regarding this instance specifically.. we were presented with a document to sign for the vendor rules/conduct from the client (the venue didn't send this to me, but to the couple to forward to me). I saw it and called the client stating I can't sign it as there are 2 items that I have to make you aware of first, given that my contract has contradicting info.
1) If you want me to use their sound system that is fine, but in my contract I state I'm not responsible for the quality of sound or any issues or damage that arises from our normal use of it. The client assumes responsibility. If they are ok with that, then that's fine. They didn't like that as they feel my sound system would be superior to the venues, especially from the perspective that they have no sound tech on site if there are issues. They said we'll push for your sound system. While they were made aware there was a built in sound system, they didn't realize I couldn't use mine. Coincidentally, i have another client in May dealing with the same situation and pressing the venue to use my system, as their system has ZERO bass and they are angry that they're finding this out 3 weeks out.
2. I told her 30 minutes is not doable, unless you add nearly $800 in additional labor, and even then who knows what might possibly delay us, especially with a package of their size. They responded saying they totally understand the added cost but thought 30 minutes wasn't reasonable and are going to complain bc that is not something they were aware of.
You were told about it the day of... but why didn't YOU ask a month before. I always ask and confirm what is the earliest i can arrive a month prior (in case they need to follow up with the venue again). In addition, I have in my contract my set up and breakdown requirements. This way if the client isn't sure (most aren't), they double check with the venue before signing my contract. Just like I'm double checking things before I sign anything.
I wasn't told anything the day of. When we got there is when we found out. What happened to the venue telling the person booking the venue at the time that there was going to be another event before your event in the same room? I understand all the venue was concerned about was making money.