Power distro questions and comments....

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Kris
We run our system on 60 A 220 plus 2 additional circuits (we'll blow the 60A breaker if we don't pull a couple dimmer runs to another source). I don't know what you'd be running that would take more juice than our 32 par 64s, specials, 10 amps......but it sounds like you need to sit down with someone who knows AC and can design a 220 distro for you (Ben perhaps?)

Don't forget if you have a distro you'll need a couple hundred feet of feeder cable. It's not cheap. for 50-60A 220 you should have 6/4 or better.
 
wow Glad i'm living in Australia - we never have hassles like that
 
usually the venue has to supply the electrician to tie the power in, which is normally an expense that the promoter deals with.

when I do a show where it needs tied in, they have always had an electrician on hand to put my tails into the panel somewhere, then the other end of that short tail is the plug that I use to plug my distro into.
 
Valerie Hicks said:
Kris
We run our system on 60 A 220 plus 2 additional circuits (we'll blow the 60A breaker if we don't pull a couple dimmer runs to another source). I don't know what you'd be running that would take more juice than our 32 par 64s, specials, 10 amps......but it sounds like you need to sit down with someone who knows AC and can design a 220 distro for you (Ben perhaps?)

Don't forget if you have a distro you'll need a couple hundred feet of feeder cable. It's not cheap. for 50-60A 220 you should have 6/4 or better.
Click to expand...

I think you are right about sitting down with someone since I HAVE NO CLUE WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT:sqlaugh: My estimates on AMPs is based on 8 amps, 6-8 movers, 30 LED panels, 2 projectors, 4-6 Diversitronics strobes, a 600 watt blacklight (possibly two) Hazebase, Two X-lasers and a BUNCH of little stuff (truss warming, LED strips, two Revo 4's, two ADJ triphase....whatever else I decide to throw in).

I just want to make sure I have enough room to grow if I'm going to invest in one of these bad boys.

Valarie...didn't you post some literature that you send venues telling them what you need as far as electrical goes???? Care to share again, can't seem to find the post.
 
Valerie Hicks said:
Kris
We run our system on 60 A 220 plus 2 additional circuits (we'll blow the 60A breaker if we don't pull a couple dimmer runs to another source). I don't know what you'd be running that would take more juice than our 32 par 64s, specials, 10 amps......but it sounds like you need to sit down with someone who knows AC and can design a 220 distro for you (Ben perhaps?)

Don't forget if you have a distro you'll need a couple hundred feet of feeder cable. It's not cheap. for 50-60A 220 you should have 6/4 or better.
Click to expand...

So these distro boxes don't come with the feeder cable? This is getting better by the second!!!! Thank goodness for Bud Light - taking the edge of all this money spending!
 
knardini said:
So these distro boxes don't come with the feeder cable? This is getting better by the second!!!! Thank goodness for Bud Light - taking the edge of all this money spending!
Click to expand...

Most of the distro boxes I've seen are actually small home circuit breaker boxes which means you do EVERYTHING... which is why I suggested PDUs instead.
 
knardini said:
I think you are right about sitting down with someone since I HAVE NO CLUE WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT:sqlaugh: My estimates on AMPs is based on 8 amps, 6-8 movers, 30 LED panels, 2 projectors, 4-6 Diversitronics strobes, a 600 watt blacklight (possibly two) Hazebase, Two X-lasers and a BUNCH of little stuff (truss warming, LED strips, two Revo 4's, two ADJ triphase....whatever else I decide to throw in).

I just want to make sure I have enough room to grow if I'm going to invest in one of these bad boys.

Valarie...didn't you post some literature that you send venues telling them what you need as far as electrical goes???? Care to share again, can't seem to find the post.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I install full dimmer racks with 24 2.4kW dimmers in each slot and I only need 200A max. I am not sure about your amps, but your lighting would only need about 75A or so.

Mike
 
knardini said:
So these distro boxes don't come with the feeder cable? This is getting better by the second!!!! Thank goodness for Bud Light - taking the edge of all this money spending!
Click to expand...

They come with the part of the feeder that goes from the distro to the CAM-LOK connections. But they do not come with the feeder that goes from the CAM-LOK to the disconnect. Renting 100' feeders will cost you about $175 each leg per week (for a total of $975 per week for a 3 phase connection).

Mike
 
PeteT said:
Most of the distro boxes I've seen are actually small home circuit breaker boxes which means you do EVERYTHING... which is why I suggested PDUs instead.
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Nothing says amateur like a home circuit breaker box as a distro. Goes right up there with orange extension cables.

Mike
 
I used to be an aircraft mechanic, and I know that I am smart enough to not mess with alligator clamps and bypassing breaker boxes. To be honest, this kind of stuff scares the hell out of me. If you are not a master electrician and are considering building your own distro, reconsider. I recommend having a rental company bring and setup the distro. People in my area do it for under $300.00. I would rather pass this cost onto a client, then taking a chance on my life.
 
knardini said:
Valarie...didn't you post some literature that you send venues telling them what you need as far as electrical goes???? Care to share again, can't seem to find the post.
Click to expand...

email sent.

Doesn't sound like you need 3 phase. A good 220 distro should suit you just fine with plenty of extra room and will minimize the need for electricians (the venues that we are required to hire electricians for tie in are $500 or better). Often a school is willing to install a 220 outlet somewhere--not a big investment. Three phase is often not possible or practical at a school.
 
How big?

It is the day after Christmas, not a creature is stirring not even a mouse...'cause I shot the damn mouse. All that Christmas spirit and children shrieking with joy and delight puts me in an ornery mood. Could we please cut to the chase on this thing???


Knardini, what you want doesn't enter into it. It is a matter of what you need and what your skills will allow. What everyone has been trying to tell you is that it may be plug and play and it may not be. If it isn't you need to know something. Even if it is a plug and play installation it would be hoped that the person responsible for drawing “140 to 160 amps to do it right” would know enough to know what questions to ask. It seems obvious you don't know what questions to ask. We've all been there at one time or another. It's called the start of the learning process.


By the way, how did you come up with the 140 to 160 amps? How did you know that? And knowing that, when the same requirements question came up again, you went back to listing equipment that no one could possibly assign load figures to, why? Don't guess, you really need to know.


I know how this post will read. I AM SO MEAN! But suggesting Knardini buy anything without being fully informed is not doing him a courtesy. Valerie has given good but generic advice, buy a “good” distro AND once again Valerie says get an electrician familiar with the venue. Valerie, I'd be comfortable accepting your suggestions but don't feel the size has been accurately determined.


My suggestions:
Go through every piece of gear that requires power and write it down.
Add up all the requirements - can you convert watts or V.A. to amps?
Use the cut sheets and/or confirm data on equipment power connection

Determine a wish list of all future gear. Write them down
Add up all future requirements.
Assign a safety fudge factor, say 10 – 20%
Do research on distros / determine if I can afford this sucker / adjust wish list etc.


How is it possible to put together an assembly of gear (most especially an assembly big enough to need 160 amps) and not be intimately familiar with the power requirements? When this same question was posed on this site before it was for a much smaller rig. The poster asking assistance was immediately asked for specific power requirements and instructed to assemble a list of equipment [loads]. That is the first step in the engineering process. Anyone else starting the process a different way should just go to the craps table and roll the dice.


And Knardini if you want to handle more of this stuff yourself, find out what courses are on offer at your local community college. The spring session is about to start. Go to the library and take out a good primer on electrical work. Renting a distro once or twice isn't a bad thing. See what you like or don't like about what you rented. This advice is a lot cheaper and easier to take than being stuck with something way too big or a little too small or just plain unsuitable for your needs.


I do wish you good luck in your venture.
 
cerebro said:
I used to be an aircraft mechanic, and I know that I am smart enough to not mess with alligator clamps and bypassing breaker boxes. To be honest, this kind of stuff scares the hell out of me. If you are not a master electrician and are considering building your own distro, reconsider. I recommend having a rental company bring and setup the distro. People in my area do it for under $300.00. I would rather pass this cost onto a client, then taking a chance on my life.
Click to expand...

You are a wise man. I am a union trained electrician and I still flinch a little when I touch that allen wrench to that lug (even after metering it).

Mike
 
Ah yes, the little flinch before, never gets old

Esoteric said:
...I still flinch a little when I touch that allen wrench to that lug (even after metering it).
Mike
Click to expand...

Ahh the insulated allen wrench [carefully] inserted in the lug. Is there any thing loose above that can drop onto the allen key?

And then we turn our backs to the panel as we throw the breaker for the first time, flipping the switch behind us.

Esoteric, I'm glad you said that.
 
Just another thing to add, never get comfortable with electricity when you do accidents happen ;)
 
Balanced Line said:
It is the day after Christmas, not a creature is stirring not even a mouse...'cause I shot the damn mouse. All that Christmas spirit and children shrieking with joy and delight puts me in an ornery mood. Could we please cut to the chase on this thing???


Knardini, what you want doesn't enter into it. It is a matter of what you need and what your skills will allow. What everyone has been trying to tell you is that it may be plug and play and it may not be. If it isn't you need to know something. Even if it is a plug and play installation it would be hoped that the person responsible for drawing “140 to 160 amps to do it right” would know enough to know what questions to ask. It seems obvious you don't know what questions to ask. We've all been there at one time or another. It's called the start of the learning process.


By the way, how did you come up with the 140 to 160 amps? How did you know that? And knowing that, when the same requirements question came up again, you went back to listing equipment that no one could possibly assign load figures to, why? Don't guess, you really need to know.


I know how this post will read. I AM SO MEAN! But suggesting Knardini buy anything without being fully informed is not doing him a courtesy. Valerie has given good but generic advice, buy a “good” distro AND once again Valerie says get an electrician familiar with the venue. Valerie, I'd be comfortable accepting your suggestions but don't feel the size has been accurately determined.


My suggestions:
Go through every piece of gear that requires power and write it down.
Add up all the requirements - can you convert watts or V.A. to amps?
Use the cut sheets and/or confirm data on equipment power connection

Determine a wish list of all future gear. Write them down
Add up all future requirements.
Assign a safety fudge factor, say 10 – 20%
Do research on distros / determine if I can afford this sucker / adjust wish list etc.


How is it possible to put together an assembly of gear (most especially an assembly big enough to need 160 amps) and not be intimately familiar with the power requirements? When this same question was posed on this site before it was for a much smaller rig. The poster asking assistance was immediately asked for specific power requirements and instructed to assemble a list of equipment [loads]. That is the first step in the engineering process. Anyone else starting the process a different way should just go to the craps table and roll the dice.


And Knardini if you want to handle more of this stuff yourself, find out what courses are on offer at your local community college. The spring session is about to start. Go to the library and take out a good primer on electrical work. Renting a distro once or twice isn't a bad thing. See what you like or don't like about what you rented. This advice is a lot cheaper and easier to take than being stuck with something way too big or a little too small or just plain unsuitable for your needs.


I do wish you good luck in your venture.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the advice. The one thing I learned early on at this place is definetly post questions at your own risk. You better have thick skin if you ask for website suggestions, or come out and say you are a "newbie" on any subject. When you do that you get one of two responses...1) Someone that has the experience and the willingness to offer constructive advice and 2) People that may or may not have the experience to offer advice but LOVE taking shots along the way. Hey if that's what it takes to learn more about the trade than so be it - so thanks balancedline :sqwink:

The reason that I haven't listed a total AMP load for my "big rig" is because my set up is rarely the same. I do know that I draw 50 amps for my sound alone and another 75 for my core lighting (250 movers and diversitronic strobes). We are not your "typical" DJ company in the sense that we have a very big set up. Thinking about not having to search for 6-7 seperate circuits every time out is why I posted this thread.

What I am trying to get to the bottom of is what type of distrabution system I should look into and how the process goes down. I would never attempt to build one (although I did install an outlet in my bathroom today:sqbiggrin:) or tap into the main box somewhere on my own...I'm not an idiot. I like to spend money but won't do it until I'm sure it will help my business down the road and I understand what I'm buying completely. Do I need to take an electrical course to do that....probably not.

Sometimes knowing what questions to ask only comes once you've already learned the lesson - which is what I'm trying to do.

Thanks Valarie for the email!
 
Kris,
In this place you don't need thick skin, you have to remember it's sometimes difficult to see what the tone is when you're reading an answer that's been typed even with included smilies. My power distro is amateurish according to Mike's (Esoteric) perception ;);););)but for what I need it it works great and not a penny was spared and it was overbuilt with the final word coming from a PRO.

If I was in the business in the US I would definitely do things another way. The electrical installation in my house was built with a purpose and a lot of safety measures were taken so I would not electrocute myself when I connected my distro. The main switches that let's power through have a MASTER LOCK that does not come off until I'm tied in.

Electricity is very dangerous and in my personal opinion since you would be connecting to different electrical setups at the different venues you need to sit down with a PRO and try to find something that will work on the majority of the venues. As I stated before build something bigger as it will let you expand and change as time goes by.

If theres one thing I love about this place is the amount of help that's available without being labeled a RICHARD, Idiot, etc. of all of the people that are here only one has exasperated me and that's no easy feat.

Remember the dumbest question is the one not asked. And you bet on it that you're not the only one with said question :)
 
If you have schools that your working at on a regular basis, Ask them to run you a drop to plug your distro into...

Val has a few set-up like that, And it works real slick.....
 
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