Still not covered under "Fair Use" and it has nothing to do with professional DJs or KJs. And you thought there were no gray areas....
Still not covered under "Fair Use" and it has nothing to do with professional DJs or KJs. And you thought there were no gray areas....
G
Guest
Guest
I have always said that KJ's and DJ's can't claim fair use (where have you been during this entire thread?)
Home recording act covers private use, copying etc.
See, thats another gray area. You're talking the Audio Home Recording Act and calling it "Fair Use" but the term "Fair Use" is described under USC 17 10_something and a bunch of other places. The law is bogus, it's garbage, it's just not worth talking about. You want a real jolt to your copyright law library? Read artical 1, section 8 of the US federal constitution. Copyright dies with the author and nothing sort of a constitutional amendment can change that. I don't think there has been one but I could be wrong.
I agree that it's not gray, it's black and white. That doesn't necessarily mean I agree with it.
If you've got your entire library of legally-purchased cds at home, archived for safe-keeping, and you're using a laptop for your shows (a 1 man show, no other people using the digital copy at the same time on another laptop) it wouldn't be legal. Plain and simple.
That's not to say that I wouldn't consider doing it, or that it SHOULDN'T be illegal, but we don't make the laws.
I think most of us would agree with this post, for the most part?
If you've got your entire library of legally-purchased cds at home, archived for safe-keeping, and you're using a laptop for your shows (a 1 man show, no other people using the digital copy at the same time on another laptop) it wouldn't be legal. Plain and simple.
That's not to say that I wouldn't consider doing it, or that it SHOULDN'T be illegal, but we don't make the laws.
I think most of us would agree with this post, for the most part?
All I can say is that I'm glad I haven't spent a bunch of time ripping my CDGs.
While I think the law is complete BS and the fact that SC and other companies are going to pursue legit KJs and not the real pirates I really don't feel like being made an "example".
Gonna stick with my discs for now
However, any future CDG purchases I make will not be SC. Guaranteed.
While I think the law is complete BS and the fact that SC and other companies are going to pursue legit KJs and not the real pirates I really don't feel like being made an "example".
Gonna stick with my discs for now
However, any future CDG purchases I make will not be SC. Guaranteed.
I can't imagine a case where the person can prove that they never used more than one copy at a time and had 100% legally purchased cds actually making it through the legal system.
I would hope that any judge this was presented to would throw it out. But, I guess, never say never.
What would the companies gain by prosecuting, other than pissing off a LOT of dj/kj's, even if it was to make an example? They wouldn't waste their time (and $$$$$$$$) on someone who's got the CDs, they would make a point out of someone who bought a loaded hard drive on ebay.
I would expect the worst that any of you would see regarding this is a scared venue owner insisting that you bring cds, or you don't have a job.
I would hope that any judge this was presented to would throw it out. But, I guess, never say never.
What would the companies gain by prosecuting, other than pissing off a LOT of dj/kj's, even if it was to make an example? They wouldn't waste their time (and $$$$$$$$) on someone who's got the CDs, they would make a point out of someone who bought a loaded hard drive on ebay.
I would expect the worst that any of you would see regarding this is a scared venue owner insisting that you bring cds, or you don't have a job.
K
Kirby Ball
Guest
Ok, the local radio stations here are muscling into the market big-time.
They are sending their "announcers" out to run the shows. They are all showing up with laptops with the music loaded.
Is it ok for them to use this method? I mean is there something that doesn't apply to them? Just wondering.
Thanks,
Kirby
They are sending their "announcers" out to run the shows. They are all showing up with laptops with the music loaded.
Is it ok for them to use this method? I mean is there something that doesn't apply to them? Just wondering.
Thanks,
Kirby
K
Kirby Ball
Guest
I just was curious as they have access to all the music in their "collective" libraries and wondered if they were exempt from the normal rules for some reason.
I didn't mention that these are not small-time locals (very few of those left) doing this, but the big "corporate" boys.
Good thread, didn't mean to "derail" it.
Thanks
I didn't mention that these are not small-time locals (very few of those left) doing this, but the big "corporate" boys.
Good thread, didn't mean to "derail" it.
Thanks
As I understand, radio station libraries from TMC may be used anywhere the station is conducting business.
The RIAA knows that copyright law is filled with loopholes, black holes and contradictions where music use is concerned. This is why they do not pursue sole proprietor DJ companies that convert CDs to HDD.
The RIAA knows that copyright law is filled with loopholes, black holes and contradictions where music use is concerned. This is why they do not pursue sole proprietor DJ companies that convert CDs to HDD.
There is so much "Variation" in the rules and regs, we have to wait until they call the shots I guess, no matter what the outcome, it wont be fair to our businesses, we should have the same kind of power the radio stations do in being able to have our music available to us for our work or appearances as well, dont you think???
MV....
MV....
Ok let's outlaw guns, because they kill people..
Let's outlaw liquor, cause people get drunk and kill people.
Lets outlaw cars, cars with drunk people in them kill people..
How about hammers? Theives can use hammers to break windows...
The computer is a tool. Nothing more. It's up to the individual to do either good or bad with it. Because bad things (like piracy) can be done with a computer, should we outlaw them from karaoke? Should we support the manufacturers in their quest to keep us held to an outdated format?
Name 1 case precedent where someone has had a 1:1 copy ratio and went down.
All SC and STLR have offered is their legal interpetation of the law, which won't mean squat until it gets tried in court. Since when did they become an expert in copyright law? I thought I saw SC and STLR get sued last year for a lack of copyright law knowledge? Maybe they should just shut their stinkholes and stick to making karaoke, instead of trying to be an IP law firm.
Somehow... We need to send a message to these clowns..
Let's outlaw liquor, cause people get drunk and kill people.
Lets outlaw cars, cars with drunk people in them kill people..
How about hammers? Theives can use hammers to break windows...
The computer is a tool. Nothing more. It's up to the individual to do either good or bad with it. Because bad things (like piracy) can be done with a computer, should we outlaw them from karaoke? Should we support the manufacturers in their quest to keep us held to an outdated format?
Name 1 case precedent where someone has had a 1:1 copy ratio and went down.
All SC and STLR have offered is their legal interpetation of the law, which won't mean squat until it gets tried in court. Since when did they become an expert in copyright law? I thought I saw SC and STLR get sued last year for a lack of copyright law knowledge? Maybe they should just shut their stinkholes and stick to making karaoke, instead of trying to be an IP law firm.
Somehow... We need to send a message to these clowns..
G
Guest
Guest
Toger,
All I can say is write them a letter tell them you run a pirated system, give them your shows exact locations and times and dare them to do anything about it!
That would certainly put them in a position of put up or shut up. And if they do come after you and you are successful in court you will have changed the laws and will be a hero for the rest of us computer KJs.
Ok let's outlaw guns, because they kill people..
In fact it has been and is being done as we speak!
Let's outlaw liquor, cause people get drunk and kill people.
Hello it is illegal for anyone under a certain age to have or drink alcohol, just as it is for an habitual offender to have or drink alcohol
All I can say is write them a letter tell them you run a pirated system, give them your shows exact locations and times and dare them to do anything about it!
That would certainly put them in a position of put up or shut up. And if they do come after you and you are successful in court you will have changed the laws and will be a hero for the rest of us computer KJs.
Ok let's outlaw guns, because they kill people..
In fact it has been and is being done as we speak!
Let's outlaw liquor, cause people get drunk and kill people.
Hello it is illegal for anyone under a certain age to have or drink alcohol, just as it is for an habitual offender to have or drink alcohol
You're falling into their game and you don't even realize it Steve. Think about this for a minute or two, why is SC and STLR so against PC's?
Let's not mention the loss from piracy and look into the other factors...
1. They will lose money on their replacement CDG revenue (SC charges $15 for a replacement)
2. They will lose money on hardware revenue (it's no secret that SC sells hardware)
3. By supporting digital downloads, SC and STLR would be creating competition for their brick and mortar distributors. The B&M's who are already having a hard time moving CDG stock would probably drop karaoke altogether if SC or STLR made this move.
4. The karaoke companies percieve a huge net loss from the costs of setting up and supporting internet based distribution. Salaries and costs for programmers, managers, and support of internet based distribution is higher than what they currently have setup. I'm certain there is a lot of managers in the karaoke production companies that have been there for 10+ years that would absolutely FAIL managing a large technical staff. I think there's some people just looking out for their cush jobs.
So basically SC/STLR knows this. This scares them.. Despite digital being best for us, it's certainly not best for them. So now i'm going to talk about something different, propaganda and mass hysteria.
Both these companies would love to see PC based karaoke squashed out. Make some press releases, offer some lame legal advice (again, without any case law to back it up) and create a digital divide between KJ's.
Steve, instead of pointing fingers and yelling "YOUR SYSTEM IS ILLEGAL TOQER" use your head.. Please.. Name one case law, one case precendent where someone got busted for ripping their CDG's and running them from a PC. I'm not talking about the guys who've been in business 6 months and have 100,000 songs. I'm talking about the guys like you and me.
My venue has done karaoke for over 25 years. Tape cassette, printed sheets and japanese folk songs to start out with. Then it was the DKK collection 10 years ago, followed by numerous VCD's and CDG's from different mfgrs. Despite being in business so long, we only have 4700 english songs spread out over 300 disks. You or anyone else is welcome to come inspect our hard drive any time you wish, granted it's not during a live show.
Again though steve, I implore you not to fall into SC and STLR's trap. If they get enough guys like you convinced that PC based karaoke is the devil, they will win. On the other hand, if the few of us playing it straight take a stand, they won't have a leg to stand on.
--toq
PS steve, they know where to find me, but i'm too high profile of a target for them to want to mess with.
Let's not mention the loss from piracy and look into the other factors...
1. They will lose money on their replacement CDG revenue (SC charges $15 for a replacement)
2. They will lose money on hardware revenue (it's no secret that SC sells hardware)
3. By supporting digital downloads, SC and STLR would be creating competition for their brick and mortar distributors. The B&M's who are already having a hard time moving CDG stock would probably drop karaoke altogether if SC or STLR made this move.
4. The karaoke companies percieve a huge net loss from the costs of setting up and supporting internet based distribution. Salaries and costs for programmers, managers, and support of internet based distribution is higher than what they currently have setup. I'm certain there is a lot of managers in the karaoke production companies that have been there for 10+ years that would absolutely FAIL managing a large technical staff. I think there's some people just looking out for their cush jobs.
So basically SC/STLR knows this. This scares them.. Despite digital being best for us, it's certainly not best for them. So now i'm going to talk about something different, propaganda and mass hysteria.
Both these companies would love to see PC based karaoke squashed out. Make some press releases, offer some lame legal advice (again, without any case law to back it up) and create a digital divide between KJ's.
Steve, instead of pointing fingers and yelling "YOUR SYSTEM IS ILLEGAL TOQER" use your head.. Please.. Name one case law, one case precendent where someone got busted for ripping their CDG's and running them from a PC. I'm not talking about the guys who've been in business 6 months and have 100,000 songs. I'm talking about the guys like you and me.
My venue has done karaoke for over 25 years. Tape cassette, printed sheets and japanese folk songs to start out with. Then it was the DKK collection 10 years ago, followed by numerous VCD's and CDG's from different mfgrs. Despite being in business so long, we only have 4700 english songs spread out over 300 disks. You or anyone else is welcome to come inspect our hard drive any time you wish, granted it's not during a live show.
Again though steve, I implore you not to fall into SC and STLR's trap. If they get enough guys like you convinced that PC based karaoke is the devil, they will win. On the other hand, if the few of us playing it straight take a stand, they won't have a leg to stand on.
--toq
PS steve, they know where to find me, but i'm too high profile of a target for them to want to mess with.
G
Guest
Guest
Toger,
I am not falling into their "trap" I have always said that if you read the Copyright law it is obvious what the law states (and it is).
I have also said that I too am in violation of the copyright laws because I too use a computer for my system. It doesn't make it right just because I use it.
Too me it makes sense that the manus are going to have to go after all systems that are in violation of the law and not pick and choose which violators they go after. It is easier to hit the venues with the violations and let the venues police who they hire.
I am not falling into their "trap" I have always said that if you read the Copyright law it is obvious what the law states (and it is).
I have also said that I too am in violation of the copyright laws because I too use a computer for my system. It doesn't make it right just because I use it.
Too me it makes sense that the manus are going to have to go after all systems that are in violation of the law and not pick and choose which violators they go after. It is easier to hit the venues with the violations and let the venues police who they hire.
I never looked at it from this perspective, especially #1 and #2. Makes sense though. Thanks for the insight!
G
Guest
Guest
First off their replacement price is $5.95
Sound Choice makes no hardware products they may act as a seller of other makers products but they don't manufacture anything.
Sound Choice makes no hardware products they may act as a seller of other makers products but they don't manufacture anything.
That's your interpetation. The line is blurred there buddy. Give me case precendence, case law, a trial, anything. If you believe what you are doing is illegal, then it's clear they've already gotten to you. You have self doubt, and you'll never win.
I've read every section in the copyright law. Took me a good month to do so, but mostly I focused around section 117. Nowhere in the law did I see anything specifically pertaining to CDG.
I asked my Congressman who comes to our venue. He told me fair game.
I asked a IP lawyer who's computers I fix from time to time, she told me fair game.
I had some friends at AOL/Time Warner ask their legal team. AOL/TW says fair game.
So basically, the only people crying foul are the ones who have the most to lose from going digital. Do I believe their word? Not a chance. Do I think they're wrong? Yes I do. Do I think they have a chance against me? Not a chance in hell. I cross my tee's, dot my eyes, and cover my butt. I wish them the best of luck trying to sue me.
One last thing i'd like to add about lawyer advice. Lawyers tend to agree with whoever is paying them. Sort of like when you get a haircut and the hair stylist tells you "You have such nice hair". Lawyers are pretty infamous for blowing smoke up pieholes.
G
Guest
Guest
Like I said write them a letter and invite them to do something about you. Tell them where your shows are and say come and get me if you have the balls........me I am going back to a legal disc system until you get it all straightened out!