PCness

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YourBasicDJ said:
I find that many people who dislike the immigrants are anti PC.
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Just for the RECORD, I do not dislike immigrants.

I dislike the concept of RESPECTING EVERYBODY'S BACKGROUND = REFRAINING FROM CELEBRATING YOUR OWN

For fearing the risk of "excluding" somebody or making somebody feel "inferior", we end up exluding everybody and everything. That's wrong.

You cannot teach EVERY SINGLE holiday. You also cannot teach EVERY SINGLE fact in the universe. Those are not reasons to be ignorant.
 
The Vinyl Spinner said:
Just for the RECORD, I do not dislike immigrants.

I dislike the concept of RESPECTING EVERYBODY'S BACKGROUND = REFRAINING FROM CELEBRATING YOUR OWN

For fearing the risk of "excluding" somebody or making somebody feel "inferior", we end up exluding everybody and everything. That's wrong.

You cannot teach EVERY SINGLE holiday. You also cannot teach EVERY SINGLE fact in the universe. Those are not reasons to be ignorant.
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I'm not saying do not celebrate your own beliefs. I'm talking about a classroom setting. Children should not be taught the holidays because why pick and choose what holidays you celebrate? Where do you draw the line?

Years ago we were taught to sit Indian style. Do kids today know what that means? No. Today kids are taught criss cross applesauce to sit down. By saying Indian style you are telling the children that all indians sit that way all the time. Stereotyping.

I just have 2 statements to make.



1) Your Freedoms end when they begin to infringe upon someone else. Expecting a non Christian to be happy when you say Merry Christmas is wrong, even if you had no ill will and did not know their background. Put yourself in their shoes. This time of year is DOMINATED by Christmas. EVERYTHING is Christmas. Stores sell Christmas decorations, play Christmas music, and decorated in red and green and even have Santa outside. Radio stations play Christmas songs. TV has Christmas shows and specials. Imagine you're a non Christian and just want to go shopping. You drive in your car and Christmas music is on the radio. You walk into the store and are greeted by Santa. You get in the store and Christmas music is non stop over the radio there. The store is decorated in red and green with lights and trees. You get to the checkout counter and the cashier wishes you a Merry Christmas. I would be SICK of it. And at this point I'm aupposed to accept the "Merry Christmas" from the cashier as a sign of caring?

2) The bottom line is that you need to have empathy. Put yourself and THEIR shoes and see how it feels. I can't stress it enough, EMPATHY!
 
Empathy goes as far as the original values the country you were born in pronounced in the declaration, the bill of rights etc etc. I might need to dig up the Australian letter from their Head Cheese to say this correctly. More to come later.
 
Ed The Sawk said:
Empathy goes as far as the original values the country you were born in pronounced in the declaration, the bill of rights etc etc. I might need to dig up the Australian letter from their Head Cheese to say this correctly. More to come later.
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LEt's go back to my holiday party from last year. Remember, there were many "Indian" people meaning Southeast Asia. I ASSUME a lot were not Christian and you could tell a few were immigrants.

They come to America looking for a better life free from persecution. They go to school and land a job at the hospital as doctors, nurses, staff, etc... They go to the company holiday party and the director says "This is not a holiday party. I'm fed up with this PC bullsh*t! This is a CHRISTMAS party!!!"

How are the immigrants supposed to feel? They came here looking for an escape and freedom and this is what they get from theior bosses?
 
I guarantee you that many Christians are offended by Christmas.

Empathy I think should go the "other" way, at least sometimes. I am not offended if, say, somebody wishes me a HAPPY RAMADAN or BUDDAH DAY.

//

Ever heard of the term, "Blocking", in spontaneous acting? Actor A shouts, "A plane is crashing!" Actor B, rather than reacting to it, says, "No, it's not." Actor B just Blocked Actor A.

//

Instead of everybody having "empathy" for Mr. Ramadan Celebrater or Mr. Buddah Man, and respecting the fact that they want to spread their concept of "love", we show "empathy" by just neglecting EVERYBODY'S views--or, "Blocking".
 
YourBasicDJ said:
LEt's go back to my holiday party from last year. Remember, there were many "Indian" people meaning Southeast Asia. I ASSUME a lot were not Christian and you could tell a few were immigrants.

They come to America looking for a better life free from persecution. They go to school and land a job at the hospital as doctors, nurses, staff, etc... They go to the company holiday party and the director says "This is not a holiday party. I'm fed up with this PC bullshit! This is a CHRISTMAS party!!!"

How are the immigrants supposed to feel? They came here looking for an escape and freedom and this is what they get from theior bosses?
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First of all, whether you like it or not, everybody except Natives are immigrants.

How are the Christians supposed to feel?

If it were a Chinese New Year's party, I am certain that The Honky Tonk Man is not going to SHAKE RATTLE AND ROLL some Chinese immigrant because he is not taking CHRISTIANS into account. It's an F'N Chinese New Year's party!
 
they left a country or culture behind for a number of reasons and mostly cause it wasnt the kind of life they wanted to live any longer. Perhaps coming to this country with its solid foundations they must consider they will need to accept tradition and foundation when adapting and settling in. Bringing ones own ways and making The US or Canada in my case an extension of that previous culture is a bit unfair as well. OF course bring your heritage but dont cry oh but we take the third Friday of each month off for prayer and we must have jelly donuts supplied by the employer tuesdays and wednesdays and on Thursdays the Employer must provide transportation to and from work as its a tradition in our country to give our cars a rest on Thursdays.
 
"and we must have jelly donuts supplied by the employer tuesdays and wednesdays"

I want to work there.... donuts...ummmmmmmmmmmm....

and we are very close to stepping on each other here... take a breath... have a jelly donut...
 
Chuck The DJ said:
and we are very close to stepping on each other here... take a breath... have a jelly donut...
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Johnny walks up to Chuck...

Squeezes donut...

Chuck cries in agony because now jelly is stuck to his eyeballs.

:boxing:

OK...I won't ever tell anybody to go to Hell...well, I will, but just at the same frequency as I always have.

:p
 
sitting here cross legged, middle finger and thumbs touching going...... auhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
 
I have been to Japan, Thailand and India and asked to participate in Shinto, Buddhist and Hindu customs. It would have been rude of me to say no. Watching me go through their motions was a very uplifiting experience for my hosts. To me, they were just motions. I enjoyed doing them because it made them happy. I did not see this as being forced to assimilate. Of course I was just a guest. However, if I were an ex-patriot, it would be no different. Of course, others would see that differently and that's sad.

An orthodox rabbi (the black hat type) moved down the block from me a few years ago. He is very friendly and talks to everyone. He will shake the hand of a man but not of a woman. When he first met us, my wife stuck her hand out to shake his. He did not return the gesture? Was he rude? Was my wife rude? Should my wife be banned from offering her hand to a stranger because it might be offensive? BS! The rabbi was very gracious about the incident. He smiled at her. Recognized her custom and politely told her that he didn't mean to be rude but his beliefs prohibits him from touching a woman other than his wife. He was so nice about it my wife felt bad for not knowing his customs and he reassured her that he wasn't offended. I thought this was handled quite nicely. You can't help but liking the guy. BTW, my wife thinks that rule is absolutely looney but she respects that others follow this.
 
There was a problem in NY a few years ago between Asians & Blacks I believe. I'm not sure what caused the rift, but I assume the blacks were unhappy with the influx of Asians. I can't recall now.

Anyway, a black woman was shopping and went to the cashier, an Asian man. When the man made cahnge he placed it on the counter for the woman instead of putting the change in her hand. The black woman was so offended because she believed the asain man didn't put the change in her hand because he didn't even want to TOUCH her.

I believe this started a whole big riot a few years ago. As it turns out, it was customary for the Asian man to place the change on the counter instead of placing it in the hand. That's just the way of his culture.

Remember a few years ago when I believe Bush Sr. visited I believe Australia. He gave the standard 2 finger peace sign to a bunch of Aussies. As it turns out this sign has the same meaning as our middle finger to the Aussies. Could you imagine Mikhail Gorbechev visiting the USA in 1985 and giving the middle finger to us because he thought it meant peace. Geez, that Cold War would have turned hot real fast.
 
The Vinyl Spinner said:
if I ever say, "Merry Christmas," and that person makes a stink
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sawdust123 said:
The rabbi was very gracious about the incident.
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Key Words

YourBasicDJ said:
He gave the standard 2 finger peace sign to a bunch of Aussies. As it turns out this sign has the same meaning as our middle finger to the Aussies.
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Somebody is obviously ill-prepared for the scale of politics in which he participates. Is the above example supposed to justify the need to NOT teach children about other cultures (for fear of "exclusion" or "inferiority")?



Get me some refill for my donut! :p
 
Thank you, Jon. :)

Folks, I served a stint in the US Navy. The Navy loves to take thousands of American pups to foreign shores and dump us on the locals. :D

I can't recall all the countries I've visited. But there is one thing I recall well: when in Rome, do as the Romans. Remember, when visiting a foreign country, YOU are the minority. It's a humbling experience, trust me. It's an educational experience as well.

America was built by immigrants. The most powerful country in the world was constructed piece by piece by people who were not born here. I don't think it's too much to ask that their cultures be respected.

Today we're dealing with 4th, 5th and 6th generations who are interested in their cultural roots. There ain't nothing wrong with that. And no one in his right mind is gonna read you the riot act for saying "Merry Christmas" in America.

Christmas in America today is not what Christmas in America was in 1956. All the retail hype and whatnot is just that ~ hype. It's there to make a dollar. Nowadays it's a year-end celebration where the factories close and people are free to visit and spend time with their families.

The term "Christmas" is simply a tradition.
 
Your Freedoms end when they begin to infringe upon someone else. Expecting a non Christian to be happy when you say Merry Christmas is wrong, even if you had no ill will and did not know their background. Put yourself in their shoes. This time of year is DOMINATED by Christmas. EVERYTHING is Christmas. Stores sell Christmas decorations, play Christmas music, and decorated in red and green and even have Santa outside. Radio stations play Christmas songs. TV has Christmas shows and specials. Imagine you're a non Christian and just want to go shopping. You drive in your car and Christmas music is on the radio. You walk into the store and are greeted by Santa. You get in the store and Christmas music is non stop over the radio there. The store is decorated in red and green with lights and trees. You get to the checkout counter and the cashier wishes you a Merry Christmas. I would be SICK of it. And at this point I'm aupposed to accept the "Merry Christmas" from the cashier as a sign of caring?

2) The bottom line is that you need to have empathy. Put yourself and THEIR shoes and see how it feels. I can't stress it enough, EMPATHY!
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That's just dumb.

Your Freedoms end when they begin to infringe upon someone else.
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WRONG!

Your rights may be abridged where they infringe upon someone elses rights.​
Rights in conflict is what the legal system is for.

Empathy is not a right.

If the world were as you prescribe: what of the poor Christian kid who lives in a society dominated by Christianity - yet he can't get a simple friggin' Christmas tune played on the radio? What of the poor station owner who has to ignore the majority of his audience and play stuff that doesn't attract advertising dollars?

Empathy? Are you for real? LOL

Then again, maybe you're right. Everytime I go to Paris I get annoyed that no one there has the courtesy to speak English!
 
The V Sign

YourBasicDJ said:
...Remember a few years ago when I believe Bush Sr. visited I believe Australia. He gave the standard 2 finger peace sign to a bunch of Aussies. As it turns out this sign has the same meaning as our middle finger to the Aussies. Could you imagine Mikhail Gorbechev visiting the USA in 1985 and giving the middle finger to us because he thought it meant peace. Geez, that Cold War would have turned hot real fast.
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There isn't complete agreement on this but the most satisfying answer I've found on this question explains it dates back to Agincourt in 1415. Up until Agincourt the armored knight pretty much owned the battlefield. Owning a full set of armor during these times might be roughly compared to owning your own Lear Jet today. Henry V made it mandatory for young men to practice their skill at the bow to the extent of outlawing other sports. The longbow turned out the be the TOW anti-armor weapon of its day. The flower of French youth died on the field that day. It was one of the most lopsided victories in history.

Before the battle the French threatened to cut off the bow fingers of every archer. When what remainded of French nobility was being paraded in captivity the bowman presented two extended fingers and the back of the hand to the now hostage nobles and knights, indicating that although the fighting is over we still have the fingers to draw our bow. The implied message is "up yours".

The V for victory turns the hand around for the palm to face outward. All pictures of Winston flashing the famous hand gesture will have the palm outward (unless he was trying to indicate an all together different message).
 

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Empathy, tolerance and the American way.

Proformance said:
You seem to be confused on the difference between Political correctness and common sense.
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No. I am the very model of lucid thought and crystalline logic. You wish to impose your definitions on the argument. You wish to define what things mean and what they mean not. I don’t accept your definitions, just as you have not accepted mine.

Proformance said:
Freedom of religion does not grant you freedom from religion. For the latter, you'll have to go to a planet where you can avoid contact with other people.
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Proformance said:
When a Christian store owner is publicly criticized for a banner that includes the word "Christmas" that is political correctness.
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In the first case, it is agreed people have their right to freedom of religion. In the second case, do you believe that person in your hypothetical, who criticized the sign should not have their freedom of speech? It may not be polite and I don’t think this is at all PC but none the less it is their right to say it no matter how unpleasant. This is the same rights the Evangelist shares when seeking new converts. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.


Proformance said:
You seem to be confused
That's just dumb.
WRONG!
Empathy? Are you for real? LOL
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Most everyone, especially Basic seems to making a case for empathy, consideration for others and general tolerance for other viewpoints. Like it or not, the time when Caucasians will not be in the majority is on the horizon. Any white not interested in minority rights today may be interested when that time comes. Performance, I simply do not share your viewpoint. Religion is on myriad TV and radio channels 24 hours a day. Evangelists go door to door without fear of religious persecution. Every single federal elected official proclaims a belief in God yet the odds a this being true are almost non existent. Yet somehow those practicing their faith are at risk? The shoe seems to be on the other foot.

This debate about Christmas being taken away or subverted has been made three times in the last hundred years. In the 1920's Henry Ford wrote a virulent piece of propaganda called “The International Jew”. It was widely disseminated in this country. It made the claim that Christmas was being subverted by the Jews. In the 1950's, the John Birch Society made the claim that Christmas was being subverted by Godless Communists. The language was so extreme that even Barry Goldwater (not known to lean to the left or have Communist sympathies) had to distance himself from the rhetoric. In the new century, the blame comes back to the godless but this time it is the humanists. There was no threat then and there is no threat now to Christmas or anyone’s expression of their faith.

I’ve not seen any persuasive arguments here that theism is at any risk at all. When trying to determine why this non-issue is being raised yet again, the Wizard of Oz comes to mind. Pay no heed to the man behind the curtain (pulling the levers furiously)!
 
Many many years ago I was doing a reception when the Bride, who was dancing close to where I was setup) sneezed. I instinctivly said "bless you" (not giving it another thought).
I got my ARSE ripped for the next couple of minutes on how DARE I force my religion on her during "Her Day" and that I should keep my religious s**t to myself!
Beleive me....I don't do that anymore.
Too many people are getting just too touchy about PCness. If it doesn't fit "your" beliefs....so be it. Let it go. But don't jump all over me when I say "Merry Christmas".
If you don't celebrate as I do, in your own mind, change it to whatever you DO celebrate and accept it as a wishing of joy.

Lighten up people. :)
 
On THAT Note

Scott McKinney said:
Many many years ago I was doing a reception when the Bride, who was dancing close to where I was setup) sneezed. I instinctivly said "bless you" (not giving it another thought).
I got my ARSE ripped for the next couple of minutes on how DARE I force my religion on her during "Her Day" and that I should keep my religious s**t to myself!
Beleive me....I don't do that anymore.
Too many people are getting just too touchy about PCness. If it doesn't fit "your" beliefs....so be it. Let it go. But don't jump all over me when I say "Merry Christmas".
If you don't celebrate as I do, in your own mind, change it to whatever you DO celebrate and accept it as a wishing of joy.

Lighten up people. :)
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AMEN! :p

You know, this reminds me of the fact that, for probably longer than I ever knew of "gay" people, I have always said, "THAT'S GAY," when something is "REALLY LAME."

Did I learn "gay" from people who were againsts "gays"? I dunno. Do I refer to "gays" when I say it? Absolutely not. Do you believe that, when I say, "Gay," I have an image of a cheesy cartoon where funny looking cave people run through the house, not moving there arms, and running past the same sets of furniture over and over?

It is not my fault that cultural phenomena changed the definition of a word that I like to use. And I am actually PRETTY SURE that I did, in fact, learn it from the Flintstones. Justin Timberlake? Gay! Is he homosexual? I dunno, and I don't care. His songs are gay.

Cultural Phenomena. I feel REALLY bad for the makers of the AIDS diet chocolates. They were in business before the disease, but they sure were off the market in a hurry, do to something that was absolutely not their fault.

B-dy B-dy B-dy...that's all folks!
 
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