MP3 CDs

It may not be difficult, but there is no way you can pull it, load it, and have it ready to play faster than a computer.

Okay, I've seen this crap go on long enough on here. Let me introduce you all to the way Ducky and I do things.

First off, there are two of us at every event, not a DJ and an assistant, but two fully capable DJs. At a gig, one of us is responsible for running the board, the other works with the people requesting songs, the bride, the photographer, whomever and this person also pulls the majority of the cds and songs that are being used.

When it comes time to play and we start getting requests, the request will be looked at in our request book to even see if it's appropiate for the event and to see if it will fit in at the current moment. We RARELY put a requested song in next, the only tmie we do is if it fits at the current moment. We don't shove the requests next unless it fits; we prefer to keep a groove going and transition between genres and fast and slow, etc.

When we are working, there are any number of cds (in their cases) lined up. We are able to change the order, put new songs in, etc. For track numbers, if it isn't already known, simple quick hand signals tell the number.


Now, Ducky and I merely asked a question to seek some advice and this whole thread has turned into nothing but a friggin' shouting match between pro-computer and pro-cd while not being very helpfull at all.

DJ Ducky said:

DJing is a little more than typing and double-clicking or even pulling a CD and pressing play.

Click to expand...

could not agree more. Djing is much, much more than just hitting buttons or typing.

However, getting media into a player is a task that has to be done. I, and every DJ I can recall that i've talked to that has switched to computers, have found that task to be much quicker and easier since switching to computers. I am not shocked when I see that the only DJs that are not convinced it's much faster and easier are the ones that haven't switched yet. Having said that, there is NOTHING wrong at all with someone simply feeling more comfortable using cd players.

Esoteric said:

I just wonder how it is physically possible for someone to:

1. Look up a song in a book to find which CD it is on (although you MIGHT get to skip this step if it is a popular enough song that you already know which CD it is on, but unless you are a cookie cutter DJ this isn't the case most of the time) and which track it is on that CD
2. Physically find the case
3. Open the case
4. Take the CD out
5. Open the player
6. Take the CD in there out
7. Put the new CD in
8. Cue up the track
9. Push play
10. Allow the CD to spin up and start playing

In the same amount of time it takes to:

1. Type in three or four letters
2. Double click a track

I just don't see how A can physically be done (no matter the skill level of hte DJ) than B.

Mike

Click to expand...

Gee, I'm so surprised at this post, because your original question was so un assuming...:sqerr:

First, as the old saying goes, "if you have to ask..."

Virtually ANY decent old school DJ could do what I did, because most of the steps you have described can be skipped, or relegated to muscle memory, IF you have experience.

1-5 are pretty much equal to ONE step. You generally DO know where a track is. Reminding you ONCE AGAIN, this was a KARAOKE HOST contest. Generally speaking you know several HUNDRED or MORE locations.

If you bothered to read my description- which doesn't seem to be the case- I said that each entry was set up at a table as they would be at a gig. Do YOU lose your cases at a gig? Do YOU close them each time you put in or take out a disc ( assuming you have worked on anything but a keyboard)?

Since I am only using one hand to handle the discs, the other is free. This means that WHILE one hand is handling the disc, the OTHER can be handling the player AT THE SAME TIME. You know, kinda like walking and chewing gum? Making 6-10 merely operation NUMBER 2.

All of this can and has been done by good DJs and Karaoke Hosts for many years.

Oh, BTW, as for #10- waiting for the disc to spin and load. Repeating the last part of the post you didn't read: This was a contest between Karaoke Hosts, not media. BOTH types of hosts ran into slow load problems. Some had slow loading players, some had slow loading software. Fortunately for me, and the people who BEAT me, WE didn't.


As for your version of what was required for using the PC:

As stated on another post that you didn't read, not all PC users are accurate speed typists and computer geeks. Some are just Karaoke Hosts. Mis-typed entries happen, a lot more under pressure.

Also, you have just pointed out a major difference between a karaoke music collection and a DJ collection.

Typing 3 or 4 letters just doesn't cut it, unless you only have one version of any song- not a great idea for a good host. Many of our singers prefer a particular mfr.'s version. This means one must get to a title, THEN scroll to the proper version as given by the judge. It's funny, but I'm so used to it that I never really thought about it....

From what my PC host buddies told me ( and yes, we ARE friends. The local Karaoke community is fairly tightly knit. If you heard the way we break each others' horns, especially about equipment, you'd think we hated each other! Not true. We actually just enjoy messin' with each other. That's how these contests get started..):

Their major pitfalls were: Entering wrong song versions, slow software ( which could also mean anything from not enough computer memory to compatability problems- we didn't go that deep.), bad files ( de-rezzed graphics or messed up audio), and one woman had (IMHO- I didn't open the machine, ya know) a screwed up video card.

The CD and Player problems that some experienced: Damaged discs, pulling incorrect discs, slow loading trays, one had a tray locked shut, and one tried to move fast without thinking and actually hit and snapped off an open tray.

Also, one guy never checked his equipment after setting up. He never hooked up the cables from his source ( I say it that way because I actually don't know whether he was PC or CD). When nothing came up on the monitor or speakers, he was eliminated. Hey, what good is speed loading if nothing comes out?

Third repetition for emphasis: This was a contest between users of their favorite equipment. This was NOT "Man vs. Machine"'

Besides, what do you care? Remember John Henry? The track layin' man? In a contest, he BEAT the automatic railroad track laying machine. He then dropped dead. Didn't change a thing. So why do you care if, in this instance, Disc users beat PC users. The next time it coud be reversed. You and Rick might enter and blow us all away, right?!

The point of the whole contest post was just that. It can go either way. There is no definitive advantage. Therefore, there is no need to be a PC pusher in every other post. If you're happy with your equipment, I sure as hell don't want you to change. By the same token, if I and other CD users are happy with ours, then why do PC people continually need to push? What is it, the PC Crusades? What's next, the PC Inquisition? Gonna torture us until we repent our evil ways?

Why can't a whole bunch of PC users read a dissenting post without getting all defensive? For that matter, with all the crap I've been getting, NOBODY has proven anything I have said is incorrect. Not about MP3s Not about PC problems as posted here on the forum.

Therefore, the use of PCs or CDs remains on equal footing, with no clear cut overall superiority. So why not live and let live?

DJ Ducky said:

Well, I suppose double-clicking is faster if you have a program that crossfades for you. At that point, why not just use an iPod shuffle? It's less work.

Seriously now, let me simplify this for you....

Click to expand...

1. Its still a step that you have to physically take, with a computer you don't have to move at all.
3. Okay, the tray is already open, so you have a CD in one hand and are setting the track number with the other.

Then you add the extra step of making sure the correct song is cued. This is because of a lack of display on the CD player. You see a track number but not the name of the track. You don't have this problem with computers. I can see the name and I know that is the song that will play. So any time saved by having the tray open is nullified and in fact you have added more time by having to solo the channel and check the track.

Why search by artist? Just type the name of the song? There are similar songs, that is why I said three or four letters. At any rate, at 40-60 wpm (a decent typing rate) means a lot of letters per second. So lets say you have to type ten or fifteen letters, still no time at all.

Why would I have to check the song? I can see the title in front of me. Now if your library has mistitled songs, that is a different subject all together. But no need to check the track.

There is still no way this is physically possible timewise. The only way this works is if you take a bumbling PC user and put them against an experienced DJ.

Mike

J Mac - Chill Dude! No one is yelling at no one.....We are discussing, albeit some are a little warmer than others......Makes the board interesting......

Does anyone play a request when it's not appropriate...I love the look on the guests face though when they come up with 30 seconds left in the song, make a great request and bang! it's the next song......................

From a cost and profit perspective...wouldn't it make more sense to have the ability for one DJ to do the work of what two used to do?

DJ Ducky said:

I turn around to my already open CD case, pull out the CD (I typically know exactly where it is), open the CD and as the CD is going in, I set the track number. I turn on the cue for the headphones and I get the song cued up.

As I've mentioned before, I passed a test in college where I was given the previous 2 songs. A song was cued with 30 seconds and when they hit play, I had to figure out the next song, pull it, cue it, and complete a suitable crossfade. After that 30 seconds of fun was finished, I had to explain my reasoning for picking the song that I played.

DJing is a little more than typing and double-clicking or even pulling a CD and pressing play.

Click to expand...

I think I'm gonna cry... Did I mention that I love you?... Thought I was all alone...

Ducky - You got over 1000 VIEWS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Esoteric said:

Why would I have to check the song? I can see the title in front of me. Now if your library has mistitled songs, that is a different subject all together. But no need to check the track.

Click to expand...

Not directed at you Mike, just a generic question

But shouldn't one listen to the song, even briefly, to make sure it fits, or as another post said, does one use the same songs so often that this is uneccessary?

DJ J Mac said:

Okay, I've seen this crap go on long enough on here. Let me introduce you all to the way Ducky and I do things.

First off, there are two of us at every event, not a DJ and an assistant, but two fully capable DJs. At a gig, one of us is responsible for running the board, the other works with the people requesting songs, the bride, the photographer, whomever and this person also pulls the majority of the cds and songs that are being used.

When it comes time to play and we start getting requests, the request will be looked at in our request book to even see if it's appropiate for the event and to see if it will fit in at the current moment. We RARELY put a requested song in next, the only tmie we do is if it fits at the current moment. We don't shove the requests next unless it fits; we prefer to keep a groove going and transition between genres and fast and slow, etc.

When we are working, there are any number of cds (in their cases) lined up. We are able to change the order, put new songs in, etc. For track numbers, if it isn't already known, simple quick hand signals tell the number.


Now, Ducky and I merely asked a question to seek some advice and this whole thread has turned into nothing but a friggin' shouting match between pro-computer and pro-cd while not being very helpfull at all.

Click to expand...

And I believe if that is working for you, you should keep doing it. The fact that ducky was looking for some advice on change is telling me she's at least considering looking for a better way.

For me, I simply don't have the manpower and don't charge enough to put 2 quality DJ's at each event. I need to be able to make it easy for 1 quality DJ to run the board and still interact with clients. Wanna guess how I do that?

JoeChartreuse said:

Gee, I'm so surprised at this post, because your original question was so un assuming...:sqerr:

First, as the old saying goes, "if you have to ask..."

Virtually ANY decent old school DJ could do what I did, because most of the steps you have described can be skipped, or relegated to muscle memory, IF you have experience.

1-5 are pretty much equal to ONE step. You generally DO know where a track is. Reminding you ONCE AGAIN, this was a KARAOKE HOST contest. Generally speaking you know several HUNDRED or MORE locations.

If you bothered to read my description- which doesn't seem to be the case- I said that each entry was set up at a table as they would be at a gig. Do YOU lose your cases at a gig? Do YOU close them each time you put in or take out a disc ( assuming you have worked on anything but a keyboard)?

Since I am only using one hand to handle the discs, the other is free. This means that WHILE one hand is handling the disc, the OTHER can be handling the player AT THE SAME TIME. You know, kinda like walking and chewing gum? Making 6-10 merely operation NUMBER 2.

All of this can and has been done by good DJs and Karaoke Hosts for many years.

Oh, BTW, as for #10- waiting for the disc to spin and load. Repeating the last part of the post you didn't read: This was a contest between Karaoke Hosts, not media. BOTH types of hosts ran into slow load problems. Some had slow loading players, some had slow loading software. Fortunately for me, and the people who BEAT me, WE didn't.


As for your version of what was required for using the PC:

As stated on another post that you didn't read, not all PC users are accurate speed typists and computer geeks. Some are just Karaoke Hosts.

Also, you have just pointed out a major difference between a karaoke music collection and a DJ collection.

Typing 3 or 4 letters just doesn't cut it, unless you only have one version of any song- not a great idea for a good host. Many of our singers prefer a particular mfr.'s version. This means one must get to a title, THEN scroll to the proper version as given by the judge. It's funny, but I'm so used to it that I never really thought about it....

From what my PC host buddies told me ( and yes, we ARE friends. The local Karaokke community is fairly tightly knit. If you heard the way we break each others' horns, especially about equipment, you'd think we hated each other! Not true. We actually just enjoy messin' with each other. That's how these contests get started..):

Their major pitfalls were: Entering wrong song versions, slow software ( which could also mean anything from not enough computer memory to compatability problems- we didn't go that deep.), bad files ( de-rezzed graphics or messed up audio), and one woman had (IMHO- I didn't open the machine, ya know) a screwed up video card.

The CD and Player problems that some experienced: Damaged discs, slow loading trays, one had a tray locked shut, and one tried to move fast without thinking and actually hit and snapped off an open tray.

Also, one guy never checked his equipment after setting up. He never hooked up the cables from his source ( I say it that way because I actually don't know whether he was PC or CD). When nothing came up on the monitor or speakers, he was eliminated. Hey, what good is speed loading if nothing comes out?

Third repetition for emphasis: This was a contest between users of their favorite equipment. This was NOT "Man vs. Machine"'

Besides, what do you care? Remember John Henry? The track layin' man? In a contest, he BEAT the automatic railroad track laying machine. He then dropped dead. Didn't change a thing. So why do you care if, in this instance, Disc users beat PC users. The next time it coud be reversed. You and Rick might enter and blow us all away, right?!

The point of the whole contest post was just that. It can go either way. There is no definitive advantage. Therefore, there is no need to be a PC pusher in every other post. If you're happy with your equipment, I sure as hell don't want you to change. By the same token, if I and other CD users are happy with ours, then why do PC people continually need to push? What is it, the PC Crusades? What's next, the PC Inquisition? Gonna torture us until we repent our evil ways?

Why can't a whole bunch of PC users read a dissenting post without getting all defensive? For that matter, with all the crap I've been getting, NOBODY has proven anything I have said is incorrect. Not about MP3s Not about PC problems as posted here on the forum.

Therefore, the use of PCs or CDs remains on equal footing, with no clear cut overall superiority. So why not live and let live?

Click to expand...

No problem man. I just can't see how it is physically possible for a CD user to be faster than a PC user in an equal contest. If the contest is rigged then it is possible, although I would say that a tie would be the best outcome a CD dj would be able to hope for (for example if a CD DJ is allowed to line up his CD's ahead of time, then the PC dj can cue up songs on a play list in which case he doesn't have to do anything to move from song to song so his transition time is 0 seconds, I doubt anyone using a CD can transition in 0 seconds).

Also, I am not talking about instinct. For example I can yell out channel numbers as fast as I want, but it still takes the amount of time that the console operator takes to move the channel levels and record the new cue. It doesn't matter that to change the channel numbers and record is one step to a good console operator, it still takes time.

Okay, so to wrap this up....

To say that CD's have better sound quality than PC's might or might not be true. In my experience this might very well be the case for other professionals listening (although it is still debatable). But to the average listener there is no difference. So sound quality if you are a purist might be an argument to someone making the switch.

To say that speed is a good reason to use PC's is a legitimate reason to someone thinking about the switch. There is no way in an equal contest that a CD user can be faster than a PC user.

So in the end if you like CD's better then go for it, if it works for you, who cares? Same for PC users. The problem comes when someone asks for opinions based on what you use. In order to make your point you tend to talk badly about the other medium. Both sides are guilty of this. There is no live and let live on either side. The CD side points out the lack of sound quality in PC's and the PC users point out how slow CD's are.

I have no problem with people using CD's or PC's. I have no dog in this fight.

I was simply asking for an objective measure of speed (a time) that I could compete against to see how a lay person operating a PC lines up against a professional DJ on CD's. Just a little experiment.

Mike

eldjdelcaribe said:

you might find and play one or two cds faster but when you play for two hours it is not going to happen.

I don't care whatever anyone says, when you have 20,000 songs and you get a request that you have not played in over 10 years, you are not going to find it faster and play it then one who has it on his PC! Sorry cut the BS but it will not happen! Been there done that!

Click to expand...

Um, just wondering if you read the contest description? We were given a QEUE of 9 songs, by title and mfr. version. In other words, while the PC people were entering, the CD people were pulling and laying out the discs on the felt. Once you have that many songs laid out, it's easy to keep adding to the rotation. You could go for DAYS.

BTW, SOME of the PC users software wouldn't LET them line up 9 songs. They had to do it in groups. Another slowdown.

Also, since I use open books instead of racks, they are on the same table as my equipment. I don't even HAVE to turn around, they are right in fron of me, as is my master songbook, tabbed by artist title, and genre, as WELL as alphabetically. I'm never more than a page away from that obscure title when I open the book. 2-3 seconds....

thatmusicguy said:

J Mac - Chill Dude! No one is yelling at no one.....We are discussing, albeit some are a little warmer than others......Makes the board interesting......

Does anyone play a request when it's not appropriate...I love the look on the guests face though when they come up with 30 seconds left in the song, make a great request and bang! it's the next song......................

From a cost and profit perspective...wouldn't it make more sense to have the ability for one DJ to do the work of what two used to do?

Click to expand...

That was my question as well. Two fully qualified DJ's could then do two events on the same night and bring in more money.

Mike

Randy A said:

There's no way it's faster.......I would not believe it unless I could see it. This thread has now become useless without video.

Click to expand...

So join hands with Rick. Somehow, I can still sleep at night......

DJ J Mac said:

Not directed at you Mike, just a generic question

But shouldn't one listen to the song, even briefly, to make sure it fits, or as another post said, does one use the same songs so often that this is uneccessary?

Click to expand...

this is a good question. Occasionally, I do need to listen to a song to remember exactly how the beginning goes. But for most of the songs, I remember how it goes and the cue is already stored in memory. As far as knowing what version of the song it is, a good computer dj tags things properly so he can SEE what version it is before even loading it.

Now, I do mostly weddings, so somethings may not apply to all.

DJ J Mac said:

Not directed at you Mike, just a generic question

But shouldn't one listen to the song, even briefly, to make sure it fits, or as another post said, does one use the same songs so often that this is uneccessary?

Click to expand...

No problem. The way I see it, soloing is used when CD players are used because you just might have looked at the track number wrong on the CD case, or you might not remember exactly which track you were looking for, or because you have only the track number and not the title.

To me, this is taken care of with PC's where I can see the album name, the track number, and the song name.

In this case though, to clarify the soloing is done before hand at home. I would listen to every song in my library (which I have), to make sure the song title matched the song, that the song ended like I wanted, that it is good quality, etc.

But that work can be all done on the front end, not taking up time at an event.

Mike