It's going down...

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The potential numbers, nationwide, are down. as Stu put forth. Each area is different. Many here have expressed a "boom". Is that due to the weddings/marriages being up?
OR ......Could it be that dj got "lucky?
OR ......Had a new marketing plan work?
OR ......They suddenly start following up on leads?
We will never know. Impossible to prove, or disprove.
Click to expand...

Yes, you can know. You should know if this is your business.

Potential perfrormances. This is the key word(s) Dude has based this thread on.
Click to expand...

It is also the key indicator of a blind guess. The information to make informed choices is available, Dude’s just not willing to get off the internet to look (or pay) for it.

The number of marriage licences issued is the only legitimate resource for a marriage census benchmark.
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If a census is all you care about. What do you really need to know? How many people get married or how many people spend money on the kind of stuff you sell?

A “wedding” to me represents 5 separate event opportunities too sell a DJ related service. I don’t care how many couples register at the town hall – I’m looking for the ones headed to the bank.

As for "sales data"... C'mon now...you can do better than that. Your suggestion of sales data is IMPERFECT by sampling.
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LOL Silly me for thinking market trends and actual bridal sales records would be useful.

EXAMPLE: If 100% of the MDJs in the USA filed their taxes reporting their wedding related earings... Oh wait... there is no "Wedding Sales" line on the tax forms & the last economic census took place in 2002. Darn...great theory though.
Click to expand...

…or you could use information gathered from people who actually sell stuff rather than “census” data from unrelated government agencies and public archives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Proformance
The number of marriage licenses issued is not important. What matters is how many result in significant money spent celebrating with parties. That number has seen a meteoric rise for mobile DJs for the last 3 decades. Oops! - I guess the CDC doesn't record sales data.

Bob,

I disagree.
Click to expand...


Then good luck with all that unqualified census potential.
 
Proformance said:
Dude Walker said:
As for "sales data"... C'mon now...you can do better than that. Your suggestion of sales data is IMPERFECT by sampling.
Click to expand...

LOL Silly me for thinking market trends and actual bridal sales records would be useful.
Click to expand...

Hmmm..., useful...perhaps. When used in conjunction with citable marital statistics.

So a "market trend" is benchmarked by...? Oh that's right...a citable marital statistic that you refuse to accept.

Your attempt to support your position fails...yet again!

You've not shared citable data or sources that can be scrutinized by the ODJT community. Again, your lack of credible input, resources, "merit"...etc, suggests that you are are seeking attention to placate your "id" as opposed to engaging as productive member of ODJT.




Proformance said:
…or you could use information gathered from people who actually sell stuff rather than “census” data from unrelated government agencies and public archives.
Click to expand...

Again, short on delivery...LONG on hearsay!

The "people that actually sell stuff" should be worthy of at least being named as a source BY NAME... that is...IF they were credible.


Proformance said:
Flyingdjdan said:
Potential perfrormances. This is the key word(s) Dude has based this thread on.
Click to expand...

It is also the key indicator of a blind guess.
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Bob,

Perhaps if you practiced what you preach your comments wouldn't be so darn amusing.

At best your suggestion of "informed choices" are still nothing more than "blind guesses" that you are basing on other unnamed sources of non-cited data.

It's absolutely comical that you are will to pursue and impart your unqualified, unnamed, non-citable data as an absolute which pertains to a future with unyielding variables.


Proformance said:
The information to make informed choices is available, Dude’s just not willing to get off the internet to look (or pay) for it.
Click to expand...

Bob,

If there's ever been a person in more dire need of extricating themselves from their OCD...it's you.

You're the essence of a board troll... that loves to bitch about the "paintings in the gallery" because you’re not the featured artist.

I'm not sure which I find more bizarre...?

Your predilection for self love...
Your absolute refusal and/or inability to name your sources...
Your affinity to play devils advocate in a pathetic ploy to infer wisdom...or derail a conversation...
Your predictable & immature personal attacks to avoid answering questions put to you...


But in all fairness...I do need to sincerely thank you for breathing life into threads that annoy you... Even if you can’t backup your fabricated delusional claims.
 
Is there any reason why I can't get to the missing posts?

Showing last post as 137, (this 138) but pages are 15 and showing 146 posts>>>

Wassup?

***************

All I know is if I had credible information I could put out here that could facutually stifle Dude Walker, I shure as hell would use it.

That would be good, ... no great... for MY ego!

Performance:

or you could use information gathered from people who actually sell stuff rather than “census” data from unrelated government agencies and public archives.
Click to expand...

What "people" selling what "stuff" could give hard evidence that someone is intending on hiring a dj?
 
I do know weddings are not what they use to be, but that will not stop girls from having some sort of BIG DAY! has anyone noticed sweet sixteen party increases! Do you think this is a market that could be tapped to offset wedding dollar losses?
 
barry stamper said:
I do know weddings are not what they use to be, but that will not stop girls from having some sort of BIG DAY! has anyone noticed sweet sixteen party increases! Do you think this is a market that could be tapped to offset wedding dollar losses?
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Barry,

There's no doubt that alternative events could fill the void being created in the marriage/wedding calendars.

Promoting to this specific clientele...or for that matter, any clientele requires a certain amount of desire, innovation and $$$ to properly position & promote.

Then it comes down to ROI. However, that ROI needs to transcend initial curb appeal price expectations.


For instance: I have received 132 phone calls for 7/7/2007. I have all of my DJs & myself working that evening. I've helped several other companies fill their calendars as well. However, a call early Wednesday produced an inquiry/expectation of less than $500 for a 7hr show.

Despite this caller being un-impressed with the preceding contacts that she'd made. She was stuck on the price issue. 30 days out...& stuck on price.

I offered to help her find a DJ to suite her needs, however, her budget expectations the DJs that we refer work to may not be interested.

She had the gall to bark at me claimed that you DJs are too damn high priced?

I asked her in relation to what?

Big surprise that she could not offer an example and became flustered.

I asked her politely if she wanted me to refer her information on and she started barking about finding her a DJ for under $500 all over again.

She heard the sales pitches from various DJs... In fact, she'd picked up on some of the key points of value. The kicker is that she kept increasing her expectations after every phone call...yet the price she wanted to pay was going the wrong direction.


I thanked her for her call & rescinded my earlier offer to refer her information on.

She became combative and demanded to know why.

I put it to her in plain English: Your budget in not commensurate to the experience & value my referrals have to offer. I would be wasting your time & theirs.

Her reply... "I think it's ridiculous for someone to expect so much money just to play a few hours of music."

My reply: What do you do for a living?

After she replied, I asked her what she makes..."ballpark".

After she replied, I told her that I think she's getting paid too much for what she does. (naturally she was insulted)

I then asked her: It's seems a bit insulting to tell someone what they should be making...now doesn't it?

Her reply: Well yeah...I guess so...

I asked her again: Would you like me to refer your information on?

Her reply: Yeah...sure...why not.

I asked her to hold the line & made a 3-way call to a DJ that I knew was available.

Surprise! She booked the event for $1395...

Clients needs are met...

Referral is happy...

Chalk one up for valuation.
 
The "people that actually sell stuff" should be worthy of at least being named as a source BY NAME... that is...IF they were credible.
Click to expand...

Bureaucrats count heads, businessmen count open wallets. You seemed to have overlooked that in your haste to make hay out of the “census”.

This thread is about the use of your data. I'm not offering you names. I'm telling you yours aren't worth what you claim, and why.
If you want less criticism cite better sources before you wander off on speculative analytical fantasies.

You're clueless regarding market research firms and that's a fault of yours not mine.

I wonder, is there any other insight you can offer on my sad psychological state? ...and could you establish for us why my presumed psychosis would constitute a validation of your data interpretations?

Perhaps you could find some way support your own arguments with actual metrics or something that has demonstrable causality?
 
Proformance said:
Bureaucrats count heads, businessmen count open wallets.
Click to expand...

Bob, you've done neither... So what are you? What do you have to offer?

Proformance said:
This thread is about the use of your data.
Click to expand...

No Bob,

This is about a 30% decline in marriages/weddings that TIME magazine illustrated a few issues back. It just so happens that their research corroborates my findings.

Unfortunately, you've made this about your inability to look past your personal issues.


Proformance said:
I'm not offering you names.
Click to expand...

No Bob,

I guess YOU can't offer...what YOU DON'T have.

Proformance said:
I'm telling you yours aren't worth what you claim, and why.
Click to expand...

No Bob,

You've offered your opinion devoid of and credible supporting argument and cited sources.

Proformance said:
You're clueless regarding market research firms and that's a fault of yours not mine.
Click to expand...

No Bob,

You have no factual basis to support this assertion... which weakens your credibility...

You really need to read the TOS.

Proformance said:
I wonder, is there any other insight you can offer on my sad psychological state?
Click to expand...

Does somebody need a hug??
 
Man, did this thread ever get off topic.

Proformance and Dude, you are both exceptionally gifted and do not need male enhancement. You are both able to project urine streams for long distances. It's a tie. Please end the pissing contest and please get back on topic or else take it private.

Thanks, guys. You both have too much to offer to lower yourselves to this level.
 
Well, here's a "ferrinstance." Today I had a gig at a medium-sized VFW hall... or at least I THOUGHT I did. The hall is very close to my house and is also the location of the bi-monthly record shows in my area, so I get there often, work or no.

So I roll up a little bit earlier than planned, but no one is there. Odd, since they don't allow outside catering. Usually they cook all day. So I call the hall's number. Turns out that my client switched to another hall -- a big, mutiple room banquet center directly across the street! So we lost no real time. So we pull up, and out of FIVE banquet rooms, mine is the ONLY PARTY. The VFW across the street never did book the date for either of it's two rooms. IN JUNE!!! In years gone by, both these places would've been booked solid. The big hall would've been booked a good year in advance for anything in May, June and September! But not today.

On my way home, dropping off my roadie, I passed another small banquet hall near my home. My party ended at 11, so it's only about midnight - 12:30 as I'm rolling by. There is no sign that THEY had a party today either. This is another place -- a mom n' pop with good home made style food -- that used to be in very high demand. But not so on June 9th, 2007.

Again, Michigan is even more outta whack than the rest of the country. For us, the recession never ended and has ramped-up to new extremes. They're closing-up all the Farmer Jack supermarkets -- they've been around since I was a kid. Even with all this, I never expected the wedding business to be this skimpy during our peak season! Oh well, at least I'm working. I gotta feel for all the DJs who aren't.
 
Stu,

Thank you for sharing worthwhile information to the topic at hand.

Did these venue have any sort of party or were they empty?

It would be interesting to have you get these venue's "take" on how their season is shaping up.
 
Dude Walker said:
Stu,

Thank you for sharing worthwhile information to the topic at hand.

Did these venue have any sort of party or were they empty?

It would be interesting to have you get these venue's "take" on how their season is shaping up.
Click to expand...

Thanks!!!

Well, my "survey" is decidedly unscientific. I know that the VFW hall across the street was vacant the whole night. When I mentioned how odd it was that we were the only party to the guy who was running my venue, he just shook his head. The hall on my way home COULD have had an earlier party. I just saw no evidence of one. If theirs had ended at midnight, the guests and clean-up crew usually take more than an hour to totally vacate. Here it was 12:30 AM and there wasn't a single car in the parking lot. Very odd during the peak season, even for my sucky state.
 
Stu,

I've spoken directly with venue managers when numbers have seemed "off".

Several corporate Xmas parties last year had a meal & awards with no entertainment.

One of the larger employers claims the liability is to great to host full blown parties.

Sexual harrassment, DUI...etc...

There are companies that hire out bus or limo service for employees...

There are others that will split hotel costs...

In our neck of the woods...the bigger spenders are fewer & further between.



The response for weddings are varied...however, illustrative.

Initial response, most venues roar about how great things are going.

When you ask them why the rooms are vacant on a Saturday evening...it becomes clear that the weekday meetings & luncheons are up. Small size family get togethers...etc... However, weddings in several venues from Bismarck, ND to Minneapolis, MN are experiencing "downward change" in the wedding numbers.

One venues manager had no clue what last years total was, however, boasted how great the current year is. Upon closer look, the venue realized they were down from last year & under closer scrutiny of county marriage stats...realized that they have a smaller market share than previously assumed.

Another venue is up over 100 events..., however, is down over $250,000 in sales...

They are doing more work, there is noticeable wear & tear on the facility...and they are showing a net loss.
 
Well, that's certainly MY story, Dude!

My numbers are down, but it looks as if this year may surpass last year -- the worst year I've had since I STARTED by biz.

For the sake of raw numbers, keep in mind that I'm a single op (always have been, always will be) and the first year I was in business, I did 54 events. Only about three of them were charity, unpaid events. Each year saw an increase, right on up to 90+ events for several years. (My "personal best" record is 98.) I only fell below 90 after 2001. 9/11 cost me several corporate holiday clients because those companies had people or offices in the WTC and decided to cancel any celebrations. They have yet to resume, and I had to work hard to replace them. (I still haven't done so 100%.)

Last year, my worst ever, saw my total fall below 50 for the first time EVER.

Also, to remain competitive, I had to reduce my rates. I was trying hard for a while to "stick to my guns" and not budge, but nearly all of my competitors / colleagues had slashed their rates, or were at the very least cutting substantial deals when they otherwise wouldn't have. In the past six years, I haven't spoken to anyone who has raised their rates. Not one.

If it wasn't for the fact that my overhead is WAY down from previous years, and I've been able to make a few bucks in related areas (writing, for one), I'd have been out of business three or four years ago. Another trend that has helped keep the wolves at bay: last minute bookings are way up! It used to be that I'd book-up a year -- even two -- in advance. About July I'd take a look at my calendar and I could get an idea of how the next year would be shaping-up becuase I'd have fully half of my year booked by then. (Usually 40 or more events.) Last year at July I had three. This year I have four so far -- could have five or six by the end of July. If it wasn't for my experience with last minute bookings, I'd be in a panic right about now.

If what you're saying is also true in my market, then banquet halls are surviving on the proceeds of other, non-wedding, non-weekend events, whereas we DJs have not had a similar switch. For my MB article, I interviewed a dozen or so DJs in my state, and the one thing that stood out was that former full-time DJs like myself had taken day jobs. Sad but true. Others have added other goods / services to offer clients. At least two are now offering sound systems or jukebox type systems for the do-it-yourself crowd. I was pretty amazed at the ingenuity of some of our colleagues! I guess when it's about survival -- and we all have families, kids and retirement to think about -- people "do what they gotta do."

Again, my viewpoint is totally parochial -- Michigan is a worst case scenario for any DJ! (If I was smart, I'd take my business and my awesome Latin collection that I'm so proud of to Phoenix where my friends have all moved and set-up shop there. But what can I say -- I love my Great Lakes and green grass / trees.) If the economic catastrophe that analysts are predicting actually happens, our experience may forshadow that of the country. If the analysts are fulla crap, which they often are (or they're partisan, which again, they often are), then hopefully even Michigan's economy will rebound one day soon. I'm hangin' in there, and I'm in very good company.
 
This is about a 30% decline in marriages/weddings that TIME magazine illustrated a few issues back. It just so happens that their research corroborates my findings.
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No, you've posed a contradiction. You've cited a 25+ year decline in the per capita marriage statistic and claimed it as bad news for DJs; while during that same period sales of DJ services rose dramatically.

What "evidence" do you need to see the folly in that?

You're desperately searching for some profound answer to the current slump in special event sales; which is actuially only 4 or 5 years in the making and attributed to some very clear and obvious circumstances. It is NOT the result of a decline in the per capita marriage statistic.

You're statistical marriage "slump" is never going to turn around, and it doesn't matter. It didn't matter in the last 25 years, and it won't matter in the next 25.

The trend in DJ sales is not shaped by things so marginal.

The success of DJs has never been affected by the per capita rate of licenses issued for marriage, (as shown by the period of your own choosing) and the social commentary of Time magazine is not market "research" (as should have been clear when you read it).

You've presented a lousy case, and drawn conclusions that aren't adequately supported by the information you cite. (Not the first time.)

If it makes you feel better, continue thinking it's personal.
 
Proformance said:
No, you've posed a contradiction. You've cited a 25+ year decline in the per capita marriage statistic and claimed it as bad news for DJs; while during that same period sales of DJ services rose dramatically.

What "evidence" do you need to see the folly in that?
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Bob, there is no folly... "folly" would be of your inventions...

The original post does not elude to DJs at all...merely the USA marriages at large. Elements within this thread and their commentary steered the conversation towards DJs. Who just happened to be affected by fewer potential events & increased competition.

The decline of Bands coincided with the rise in MDJs...

The overpopulation of MDJs is now affecting the MDJ market at large.


...AND all the entire wedding/marriage market is affected by the will of bride & groom consumers.

There are several "trends" taking place at once...however, it still boils down potential. Sales are not possible without potential. The basis of any solid business plan is "potential market" to derive sales from.

So...if the current wedding/marriage market decline continues... ~Sans~ "Rose Colored Glasses"...how bright is the wedding/marriage market future?
 
Where did you develop this habit for writing first sentences that say no . .
followed by multiple supporting statements for yes ?
 
DJStuCrew said:
Well, that's certainly MY story, Dude!

My numbers are down, but it looks as if this year may surpass last year -- the worst year I've had since I STARTED by biz.

For the sake of raw numbers, keep in mind that I'm a single op (always have been, always will be) and the first year I was in business, I did 54 events. Only about three of them were charity, unpaid events. Each year saw an increase, right on up to 90+ events for several years. (My "personal best" record is 98.) I only fell below 90 after 2001. 9/11 cost me several corporate holiday clients because those companies had people or offices in the WTC and decided to cancel any celebrations. They have yet to resume, and I had to work hard to replace them. (I still haven't done so 100%.)

Last year, my worst ever, saw my total fall below 50 for the first time EVER.
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Stu, you're not alone.

Aside from a select few that have hit a string of good luck...the marriage stat numbers reflect a similar trend.

Month Marriage Rate Comparison 1996-2006 vs 139yr Avg{256}.bmp


Based upon the most recent report, marriages for 2006 have been consistently below average. No folly...a harsh and absolute reality!


DJStuCrew said:
Also, to remain competitive, I had to reduce my rates. I was trying hard for a while to "stick to my guns" and not budge, but nearly all of my competitors / colleagues had slashed their rates, or were at the very least cutting substantial deals when they otherwise wouldn't have.
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This is EXACTLY the problem! ...and I understand the concerns.

However, when an industry refuses to accept the limits of event potential, the abundance of MDJs & the quantifying of fixed costs, operational costs & wage...we end up with MDJ reacting in desperation.

But where's the bottom...?

$500 get's beat by $495...and $495 get's beat by $480...

When any attempt to volumize a service comes at the expense of wages...everyone loses.

DJStuCrew said:
In the past six years, I haven't spoken to anyone who has raised their rates. Not one.
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We need to talk!

I've raised my rates each year...for the past 6 years.

...and BTW...it doesn't come without resistance...!

The most direct approach I've used in selling is simply stating that "price" is the endorsement of what the owner knows and feels they are worth.

If they are pricing themselves lower...they are admitting they are worth less.
 
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