Actually, I have Gordon's Vodka fer ya! I buy AMERICAN and try to keep my dollars right here in the good ole' USA!
Bar & Club How Would You Have Reacted
- Thread starter ahoustondj
- Start date
Actually, I have Gordon's Vodka fer ya! I buy AMERICAN and try to keep my dollars right here in the good ole' USA!
From a legal standpoint, even without a written contract, if the DJ is expected to be plugging into the house system, it is implied that the venue will ensure that the house system is capable and ready to go when the DJ shows up.
My take on it is simply that. If the system is not ready to go, then that's the venue owner's problem, not mine. Why should I go in early and waste my valuable time to "make sure" that everything is as I left it? It simply should have been good to go.
When big name entertainment is hired to do shows away from their own town, you don't see them visiting the venue ahead of time to check up and make sure evrything is set up. No. They just show up, execting, as they should, that everything is ready to go.
Granted, the venues in these cases are generally given a sheet listing all they need to perform. But in this particular case, the venue knew, or ought to have reasonably known, what was needed. And they didn't provide it.
Period.
Call it a lesson (hopefully) learned for the venue owner (probably not).
Personally, I would not have gone out of my way to come in on my off time to re-do the system. Not my place to do it. Call me harsh, but I have better ways to spend my time and if the venue can't get their act together for something as (what should be) simple as providing a house system, then I will take my gig elsewhere and the bar will do less business.
Either that, or pay me tons extra for hauling my own gear.
In this case, I would have walked (or run!) very quickly away as well.
My take on it is simply that. If the system is not ready to go, then that's the venue owner's problem, not mine. Why should I go in early and waste my valuable time to "make sure" that everything is as I left it? It simply should have been good to go.
When big name entertainment is hired to do shows away from their own town, you don't see them visiting the venue ahead of time to check up and make sure evrything is set up. No. They just show up, execting, as they should, that everything is ready to go.
Granted, the venues in these cases are generally given a sheet listing all they need to perform. But in this particular case, the venue knew, or ought to have reasonably known, what was needed. And they didn't provide it.
Period.
Call it a lesson (hopefully) learned for the venue owner (probably not).
Personally, I would not have gone out of my way to come in on my off time to re-do the system. Not my place to do it. Call me harsh, but I have better ways to spend my time and if the venue can't get their act together for something as (what should be) simple as providing a house system, then I will take my gig elsewhere and the bar will do less business.
Either that, or pay me tons extra for hauling my own gear.
In this case, I would have walked (or run!) very quickly away as well.
OK, I guess we are hanging on to the subject.
The quick answer is if the site was checked a day or two earlier, he would not have HAD to leave on show night.
If the site had been checked a day or two earlier the problems MAY have been SOLVED before show night.
If the site had been checked a day or two earlier, and the problems couldn't be solved in time, the venue could have been notified IN TIME to hire a replacement.
Again, I wouldn't have hooked up to the system either given it's condition I wouldn't have worked the venue if I had to plug in. I AGREE with Houston on that part.
The only disagreement is that TIMELY PREPARATION would have avoided that show night situation entirely......whew! :sqerr:
Um, heck with the vodka, any 151?
The quick answer is if the site was checked a day or two earlier, he would not have HAD to leave on show night.
If the site had been checked a day or two earlier the problems MAY have been SOLVED before show night.
If the site had been checked a day or two earlier, and the problems couldn't be solved in time, the venue could have been notified IN TIME to hire a replacement.
Again, I wouldn't have hooked up to the system either given it's condition I wouldn't have worked the venue if I had to plug in. I AGREE with Houston on that part.
The only disagreement is that TIMELY PREPARATION would have avoided that show night situation entirely......whew! :sqerr:
Um, heck with the vodka, any 151?
This thread has been a car crash I can't turn away from...my .02 is based on my current 7 year gig as resident Fri/Sat jock..."Houston We Have A Problem" and you did the right thing. That was your question to start all this...I thought of waxing poetic but those would be opinions and if you want mine I suggest a review of all posts by djrox..yeah..what HE said...
I call that intelligence. In my world I'm paid as a professional to play music. Period. Unless otherwise agreed to in advance, I'm the DJ.
I call that intelligence. In my world I'm paid as a professional to play music. Period. Unless otherwise agreed to in advance, I'm the DJ.
G
Guest
Guest
That is why I mention "unless agreed to in advance". If there is no agreement between parties either written or inferred, I simply play the music. Personally, I always carry a pen (mightier than a sword) because it needs to be in writing w/ no 'grey" areas to fall back on and place blame.
Simply for clarification - if I chose to leave I'm not what? Paid? Professional? or the DJ? (careful with the answer)
Diafel makes a good point. In all honesty, the house manager or owner is responsible for the house PA system. It's part of his business equipment, same as a beer chiller or the ice maker. If it's not maintained and presented in serviceable order it's not fit for duty.
I've seen contractors walk off the job before. Either the other party didn't provide what they said they would or an issue involving safety or health and hygene was evident. A business owner is well within his right to protect his employees and his equipment from potential damage.
Granted, Houston could have traveled to the venue to inspect the house system a day or so before. All I'm sayin' is, he shouldn't have to do this nor should he be expected to. The house management booked him to perform with their equipment and Houston agreed in good faith. There you have the implication that the business equipment in question is fit for duty.
Just for the sake of argument, let's suppose that Houston had traveled to the venue to do a site survey ahead of time. Question: Would the house manager pay Houston for the additional time and travel? I doubt it.
Now let's suppose that Houston found the system to be a bag of worms and told the manager he couldn't use it. Question: Do you think the manager would've done anything to make it right before Houston's scheduled show? I don't think so.
In this case, Houston kept his end of the bargain by being where he was supposed to be and providing what he was expected to provide, in accordance with mutual agreement. The house management didn't keep their end of the bargain by providing the necessary business equipment for Houston's use.
I've seen contractors walk off the job before. Either the other party didn't provide what they said they would or an issue involving safety or health and hygene was evident. A business owner is well within his right to protect his employees and his equipment from potential damage.
Granted, Houston could have traveled to the venue to inspect the house system a day or so before. All I'm sayin' is, he shouldn't have to do this nor should he be expected to. The house management booked him to perform with their equipment and Houston agreed in good faith. There you have the implication that the business equipment in question is fit for duty.
Just for the sake of argument, let's suppose that Houston had traveled to the venue to do a site survey ahead of time. Question: Would the house manager pay Houston for the additional time and travel? I doubt it.
Now let's suppose that Houston found the system to be a bag of worms and told the manager he couldn't use it. Question: Do you think the manager would've done anything to make it right before Houston's scheduled show? I don't think so.
In this case, Houston kept his end of the bargain by being where he was supposed to be and providing what he was expected to provide, in accordance with mutual agreement. The house management didn't keep their end of the bargain by providing the necessary business equipment for Houston's use.
I have already posted my two last songs but its hard to abandon ship. Something I want to clarify aside that I left. I was pre-paid for that Saturday and this Saturday since Monday 6th. Its only because I did not perform on 4/11 that I went back to "give" some of my time to straighten out the mess on Monday 13th. I did not have to do that, I was just trying to be nice.
What I don't understand from some of those faulting me for leaving and not staying to fix things and do the gig that night, is that THEY do not understand that there was not enough time and the proper tools to do it then. That is why I left. I can guarantee you, that as defective as those two speakers are, as long as there is some sound coming out of them they won't be replaced or repaired.
I guess since I started the thread i may as well finish it. I do think that the debate is healthy though.
What I don't understand from some of those faulting me for leaving and not staying to fix things and do the gig that night, is that THEY do not understand that there was not enough time and the proper tools to do it then. That is why I left. I can guarantee you, that as defective as those two speakers are, as long as there is some sound coming out of them they won't be replaced or repaired.
I guess since I started the thread i may as well finish it. I do think that the debate is healthy though.
G
Guest
Guest
Simply for clarification - if I chose to leave I'm not what? Paid? Professional? or the DJ? (careful with the answer)
If you leave, by your own definition, you're no longer the D.J., and I'm agreeing with that.
I'm not interested in debating the term "professional".
Whether or not you're paid is dependent upon your agreement (written or not - written is a stronger basis, of course) with the club management. If you had to go to court to get paid from the club, after leaving a half hour before the D.J. is scheduled to start, citing safety concerns, I believe you'd have a hard time getting it. Many people on this board (including me) take great pride in our sound systems. It would be up to a judge to determine if there was truly a danger inherent in working that night. The very same sound system, hooked up the very same way, but without a D.J. and his laptop somehow managed to work (at least minimally) for the rest of that evening, and possibly a few days longer, until houston returned to improve it. Does this indicate danger that justifies bailing on a client?
My friend! Answer me these few questions.
You saw the pic of the pair (left and right) of RCA cables going into the amp. I needed at least three pairs of inputs for my setup. How was I supposed to achieve this? (Mind you, he told me that the mixer and eq were both blown).
I saw the condition of that wiring, the pics are there too for everyone to see. It was an accident waiting to happen. I was not about to be held responsible for any malfunctions. Why would I want to put myself in jeopardy or held responsible for blown equipment? When I went there last night to do my Gig (my production) he announced that he had installed a new dance floor surface. Know what it was? It was a square piece of linoleum. Have you ever tried to dance on linoleum? Almost impossible, it sticks to your feet, you cannot make dance spins. Get the picture yet? Cheapskate! A wood/parquet or tile flooring is what most people use.
Last analogy for you. Guy regularly goes out clubbing, intoxicates himself and drives home without an accident. Would you feel safe riding in his car while he is intoxicated? He's been getting home okay before, hasn't he? Don't you think that its a matter of time before something happens?
While I agree that the venue is responsible, I also think that the DJ/Karaoke Host should be ethically inclined to take the time to check out the venue beforehand.
Let me ask the wedding DJs: Would you run a wedding at a venue that you haven't checked in advance? I'm guessing no. Of course many would just say " Of course not, but look what a wedding DJ gets paid!". To which I reply: Whatever the rate, I am being paid as a professional to act like one. Check the venue in advance- not on show night.
Look, I just got hired for a new venue on Thursdays. Even though I am using my own rig, you can be sure that I will show up there WAY in advance to check setup area, acoustics, etc... because I want to do the best show possible.
Let me ask the wedding DJs: Would you run a wedding at a venue that you haven't checked in advance? I'm guessing no. Of course many would just say " Of course not, but look what a wedding DJ gets paid!". To which I reply: Whatever the rate, I am being paid as a professional to act like one. Check the venue in advance- not on show night.
Look, I just got hired for a new venue on Thursdays. Even though I am using my own rig, you can be sure that I will show up there WAY in advance to check setup area, acoustics, etc... because I want to do the best show possible.
Houston, I love ya babe, but you're not getting it. The setup could have been tin cans and string and it wouldn't make a difference. If you had gone in a day in advance to scope out the venue -with an admittedly bad technical background- in advance, there would have been no problem ON SHOW NIGHT. Why do I put it on you? Because you DID KNOW of previous problems. YOU DID KNOW the management did not have the expertise to fix them. YOU ALMOST HAD TO KNOW there would be technical problems upon your return. I really am not trying to sound snotty, but truth be told, this would never have happened to me.
All that said, can I still get Mozzerella sticks with the booze?
What would you do if you checked out a new wedding venue and saw electrical wiring problems that you were not authorized or qualified to fix, you brought it to their attention but when you arrived that day to play you saw that it had not been repaired?
I was not dealing with children. I did not have to go to check anything beforehand. If he knew there were problems (Mixer & EQ were down) he should have called or notified me on 4/6/2009. He is running a Club not a basement family room. When I go to do a Gig with my own full system, I carry all kinds of connectors, cables, AC cords, tools etc imaginable just in case its needed. Same with doing a Club gig, I take all kinds of connectors and adapters with me. I did not almost have to know there would be technical problems waiting because his system was functioning as best as it could in February. If he knew that he was unqualified to add more gear, he should have sought professional help at that time. Then I would not have had any surprises. Trying to fix his errors would only encourage him to repeat his folly in the future at someone's expense.
Another thing to consider here, for the sake of argument, had I gone before the date and saw the problems, guess whose time would have been wasted to do the repairs/reconfigure hookups? Since I did not work that Saturday night but gave him the time on Monday to do the fixes, he got more than his money's worth, I did not loose much and the problem was solved. Hopefully he learned a lesson.
You just kinda answered your own question. "....if I CHECKED OUT a new wedding venue".
Yes, I WOULD have checked it out in advance! See? the answer to your question will have to be hypothetical, as - to repeat- I NEVER hook into house systems.
If I WAS going to hook in, I would inform both venue management AND the B&G of the situation. Then I would let them know that I would be unable to use the system as is. Remember, I am telling them IN ADVANCE, not on Event Day, because I went in early and checked it out. Now the responsibility is completely on the venue AND the clients- I mean ethically as well. The venue must solve the problem, and the B&G know it, and know to push the venue.
If I were in ownership of a mobile rig - and I am and you are- I would give all involved the option of romoving their worries by using it, if they so desire. If an additional fee is required, I would pass that info on as well. NOW the ball is their court, they know all the options IN ADVANCE of the event, and can work accordingly. I would then give the day before as the drop dead date for repairs. If they haven't been made properly, ( after checking again) I would re-offer your equipment option, if refused, let them know that you will be unable to work the event.
If the B&G and the venue haven't made the proper repairs, AND have refused your offer to to use your equipment, then AND ONLY THEN can you walk off. Of course, in the eyes of the uninitiated, you'll still LOOK like the bad guy.
NEVER, under any circumstances, would it happen on the Event date.
Guess I'm out the mozzerella sticks.....
You're right, you don't. You also don't HAVE to have a good sound system. You don't HAVE to have a good music source. You don't HAVE to have any feel for the floor, or know music, or anything else.
The thing is, to be in demand, we do all of the above to the best of our abilities- else we may get the job- but only once. Bad news travels quickly.
Well, good and early prep is a part of the package. I want to be clear. I have no problem with you not working with the crap at the club, only WHEN this decision was made.
Just because you go early doesn't mean you have to do the repairs. Just tell him the situation as I described for the wedding, leave, and see what happens. It's then definitely in his court.
You DON'T have to check out the venue early. All I'm saying is that it's a REALLY REALLY good idea to do so. It adds to your rep, it adds to customer satisfaction when all goes well, or options are given. It is NEVER a bad thing.
Look, forget what HAS happened, and maybe just kinda think of it for future venues.
Great, and I'm still dry as a bone. Where's that flask of mine....?
Great, and I'm still dry as a bone. Where's that flask of mine....?
I was bringing it over to you and got mugged by some winos!
If I had checked out my destination path before travelling that route, I would have avoided that mistake! :sqerr:I do have a background in sound, I would have either sold this owner on a newer system or charged for my services (or contracted services) to make it better for both the DJ and the owner. But I would have never just left (again this is how I deal with these types of situations). Education, why should we do this, why should I? that seems to be your question. My answer: Because you want to work there, because you want the money.
Differences between you and me, Your quotes seem to reference caution in the wind.
I am not arguing what you did is wrong, I am stating what I would have done.
EK. If you read closely you will comprehend that the individual does not take his sound system seriously. He and I are still friends. There was no love lost. Maybe one day he will get it. One of the most critical components in a club is its sound system. This he does not understand. He is content to just having noise come out of two boxes.
Until it stops working, he won't replace it. Once again, the determining factor for my leaving was that there was not enough time to fix the problems that night. I am a DJ not a magician. BTW you did not give me a direct answer to my question.
That was not my question, so your answer does not apply!
G