How do we change the luddite mentality?

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Although I don't DJ anymore, I think one aspect of this that has not been mentioned yet is customer perception. Many potential clients (especially when everywhere you turn you see stories about illegal downloading) view computer DJs as just someone who sits around "stealing" their music to use at events. Also, the fear of a computer "locking up" in the middle of an event could be in the minds of a potential client.

I don't really believe that clients think too much about the technology behind the music unless that client has above average user ability. Although I have been asked if I use professional gear I can count on one hand how many times they asked for brands or what media I use
 
BTW- I'm a bit slow here- Thought Blu-Ray was just for video?

CDs, DVDs, and now Blu-Ray... it's all just storage!

Blu-Ray blanks are 5" round DVDs with a storage capacity (I believe) of 50 to 60 Gig.

They are designed to be used for hi-def video, but I see no reason why, like DVDs, you couldn't use them to archive any form of data, including a huge collection of mp3s. It's just that no one makes a player that would read that (yet). Am I making sense?
 
CDs, DVDs, and now Blu-Ray... it's all just storage!

Blu-Ray blanks are 5" round DVDs with a storage capacity (I believe) of 50 to 60 Gig.

They are designed to be used for hi-def video, but I see no reason why, like DVDs, you couldn't use them to archive any form of data, including a huge collection of mp3s. It's just that no one makes a player that would read that (yet). Am I making sense?


Well, if they can't be read for audio at the moment, I guess they're still video. On the other hand, MP4 discs store bunches, and the player WILL read that.
 
If I were to switch to computer, I would want the setup to REALLY LOOK High Tech. Look and presentation nothing short of Star Trek TNG! :sqwink:

This is show biz guys, what's exciting about a laptop and a mixer? Why not make the setup a show piece, console with multi que, and control screens etc.. with a reverse angle video camera watching over your shoulder occasionally popping up on the big screens to show what's happening on "the bridge"!!! :sqlaugh:

(Oh wait... that would be tooooo heavy and too much bother!!!!!!)
 
I like CD's when I'm beatmatching.....
If I tried to beatmatch with a mouse,......

If I was a karaoke jock, I would change over.


OK, I'll bite. Why would you change over if you were a karaoke host, as opposed to a DJ?
 
OK, I'll bite. Why would you change over if you were a karaoke host, as opposed to a DJ?


Maybe I'm naive in my presumption....

The closest and really cool hard drive based gear I've seen is the Rane Serato Scratch Live with the time coded stuff. Not much latency issues there and pretty darn seamless sounding. I just can't justify spending a grand or two on a computer and hard drive space and backup space AND the mixer AND the program AND the interface. But in the end, I still get the tactile surface I desire to perform....

So I guess the real issue for me is money and tactile interface.
The less expensive programs don't seem to be as easy to navigate the beatmatching/fader trick stuff I like to do in my live show....

I don't think I'll need to beatmatch karaoke tracks. Right?
Fade out karaoke, fade in time waster song, fade out, fade in, fade out, fade in right?

Let me put it this way...I think the only way to do Karaoke quickly and efficiently is to keep it automated somewhat. I think if I was a Karaoke host, I'd be all over the place and on the mic WAAAY more often and would need automation...thats just me.....and another reason I don't do karaoke is the money factor. If I did decide, I'd go all out just as I do as a DJ.

I love it, I'm just not ready for it.


Sorry about my long winded fat headed approach to all this. Thanks for reading....
 
I can see your point on the tactile part of it... I don't scratch (well not the music anyway) I don't manually beatmix either... I'm not one of those types of DJs (presently)

I prefer a more automated system... plus with using a PC vs CD or Vinyl you aren't spending time looking for a song... a quick click and a search and you find what you're looking for.

There's no way I would even consider using a program for scratching even if I new how. It's simple not the same... but then I'm not a club DJ.
 
I can see your point on the tactile part of it... I don't scratch (well not the music anyway) I don't manually beatmix either... I'm not one of those types of DJs (presently)

I prefer a more automated system... plus with using a PC vs CD or Vinyl you aren't spending time looking for a song... a quick click and a search and you find what you're looking for.

There's no way I would even consider using a program for scratching even if I new how. It's simple not the same... but then I'm not a club DJ.

I'm not a club DJ either. I do all this stuff at weddings and HS dances.

I DO bring a laptop. yes indeedee. I simply play special dances at weddings after I purchase on itunes and my promo only subscriptions are in a database as well for requests and I sharpie an asterisk of any hits or must-plays right on the promo only CD's.

The rest of my CD's are in jewel cases. I'm very visual. I may not know what to play either at times, but I can just scan the spines of my CD's and muse from there. Takes me very little time. I can "store" a lot more song titles visually than I could ever "store" mentally if all I used were binders.

I'm a little left brained and right brained about how I get the job done and I'm not frantic at all.
 
See there in lie the differences... and that's ok.

I think the original intent of the thread though was to find out why when technology is there for the most part do people drag their heals and then find reason why it's not a good way to operate.

Basically why are there sooooo many technophobes in a technological field such as DJ'n?

Honestly I have no idea what Luddite means to tell ya the truth and I am too lazy to look it up.
 
I think the original intent of the thread though was to find out why when technology is there for the most part do people drag their heals and then find reason why it's not a good way to operate.


It's naive. That prescribes technology for technologies' own sake.

The fact that something exists or is new does not automatically make it desirable. A technological improvement does not by itself improve the methodology.

Consider the multitude of technologies that have been abondoned beacuse while they were indeed "better" their adoption provided neither an economic or ergonomic benefit.

The singular advantage of a PC is the ability to store an entire music collection, or to have instant access to songs you don't already have.
But you can easily make use of this archive ability without making a PC the root of your system.

If you work alone, the ability to automate the music and get out in front of your gear is arguably not a valid "DJ" advantage since you would in fact be "entertaining" and no longer DJing. (See also: "Track Act" or "Milli-Vanilli") Thus, this would be a personal or vocational benefit and NOT a technological improvement to DJing.

There are many presumed advantages that simply don't exist where the DJ is already highly efficient and streamlined with other technology:

Economic: Switching to a PC will not significantly improve your sale price or your margin.

Ergonomic: The typical "all PC" DJ is using gear that is bulkier and takes longer to setup than a well thought CD system.

Artistic: Automation is largely NOT what DJing is all about.

There are also some very disctint disadvantages:

Perceptual: Customer's fail to recognize any sigificant gap between the DJ and their own home computing resources or abilities.

Life cycle: The hardware and software are both vulnerable to early and repeated obsolescence.

Visual Personna Real DJs are just cooler than computer geeks. :sqlaugh:
 
Honestly I have no idea what Luddite means to tell ya the truth and I am too lazy to look it up.

The use of the term "Luddite" is what is so revealing about the true nature of the questioner.

The best modern day equivalent of a Luddite would be the Uni-Bomber or those eviromentalists who burn down housing developments.

The difference between a Luddite and say; the Amish is that a Luddite actively protests and campaigns against technological change, often by interfering with it's implementation.

So the term is being mis-applied to DJS who simply don't need or want to change their style.

Because the proposition is just a thinly veiled insult - it begs the question: "why does the author feel so threatened by other Non-PC DJs?"
 
Maybe I'm naive in my presumption....
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1) Fade out karaoke, fade in time waster song, fade out, fade in, fade out, fade in right?

2) Let me put it this way...I think the only way to do Karaoke quickly and efficiently is to keep it automated somewhat. I think if I was a Karaoke host, I'd be all over the place and on the mic WAAAY more often and would need automation...thats just me.....and another reason I don't do karaoke


1) Um, no. A GOOD karaoke host is, among other things, re-calibrating sound for each and every singer. Not just bass, treble, and volume, but key and vocal effects amongst other things. I know that there are people who do as you described above, but those are the K-mart KJs, or DJs trying to do karaoke as an "add on". The sound setup alone would drive me nuts if I was using a mouse driven laptop for a mixer. I've done it, and for me, tactile is a neccesity.


2) Another myth. Once proficient, whether PC OR disc based, there's plenty of time for going out and playing the crowd. I know. 95% of my shows are disc based. It's all in the experience.
 
It's naive. That prescribes technology for technologies' own sake.

The fact that something exists or is new does not automatically make it desirable. A technological improvement does not by itself improve the methodology.

Consider the multitude of technologies that have been abondoned beacuse while they were indeed "better" their adoption provided neither an economic or ergonomic benefit.

That is partially true... but not completely true... sure a good example of technological advancement that went nowhere would be the Betamax systems...

Then along came DVD... and recordable DVDs with vast improvements in sound and picture quality.

The singular advantage of a PC is the ability to store an entire music collection, or to have instant access to songs you don't already have.

I don't think that is the sole reason for computer use... I think that's a bit short sighted...

If you work alone, the ability to automate the music and get out in front of your gear is arguably not a valid "DJ" advantage since you would in fact be "entertaining" and no longer DJing. (See also: "Track Act" or "Milli-Vanilli") Thus, this would be a personal or vocational benefit and NOT a technological improvement to DJing.

Aren't DJ's suppose to be entertainers? I've DJ'd alot via PC and I do not see myself being able to get out from behind my gear any more than a DJ who works of anyother media... I'm always looking for the next song... and sure I'll line up a list of music I might play but sometimes that gets nixed by a request or even me coming up with a better song to play...

It's not like useing a computer means that the DJ automatically can just hit random and then play... just doesn't work that way... at least not for me anyway.

There are many presumed advantages that simply don't exist where the DJ is already highly efficient and streamlined with other technology:

Economic: Switching to a PC will not significantly improve your sale price or your margin.

Really?... hmmm.... let's see.... I can provide an endless amount of music provided there is an internet connection, I can add music at a whim to the playlist, I can even add live media streams to my system... heck even do a live feed via a web cam if I so choose. While the later doesn't have to do with DJ'n per se it does add to your sales pitch of things you can do.

Ergonomic: The typical "all PC" DJ is using gear that is bulkier and takes longer to setup than a well thought CD system.

Oh... here we go... a computer is harder to setup vs a CD player, mixer, crossover, eq's blah blah blah...

Not true... I run a single s/PDIF optic wire to my AutoEQ to my amps and to my speakers.... all remain hooked up within my rack... harder to setup, bulkier... pffft don't make me laugh.

Opps, did I forget to mention that I don't need an external mixer... wow one less thing to mess with while setting up. I do have one don't get me wrong any piece of gear be it a computer or a CD player can breakdown at the most in opportune times.

Artistic: Automation is largely NOT what DJing is all about.

And just what is wrong with a bit of automation if it makes your job easier? Nobody said the computer has to run the show but there is absolutely nothing with allowing it to crossfade, beat match and other assorted things for you.

There are also some very disctint disadvantages:

Perceptual: Customer's fail to recognize any sigificant gap between the DJ and their own home computing resources or abilities.

Life cycle: The hardware and software are both vulnerable to early and repeated obsolescence.

Visual Personna Real DJs are just cooler than computer geeks. :sqlaugh:

Customers are coming to almost demand instant gratification and pretty much expect a PC to be used in some fasion or another... and they are not dumb enough to equate their RS home stereo to a pro-audio setup. Not to mention your average consumer isn't using expensive mixing software or audio gear to play their music on at home... unless you are also rolling in there with the latest in Rent-To-Own speakers I'm quite possitive that your clients will be able to see the gap between home sound and pro-sound.

The life cycle of any piece of gear can be short lived this is true... compatability issues asside... even CD players have a life cycle... CD's have a life cycle all degrade thru time.. but, that mp3 will live forever as long as ya don't format the dang drive. So while technology marches on... so do the advances in software.

A DJ working with a PC doesn't make him a geek. But, if working smarter and with more effcientcy makes me a geek.... well then I guess I am.

Sorry but I just don't see why a computer seems to be such a threat to folks after all it is only a tool and is only as good as the tool using it... lol
 
I'll stay with me CASSINGLES
 
I'm with Scott Hanna on this one. I don't care what my competition is using. (although after seeing me use a computer for over 8 years they are just now making the switch. At least 5 of them anyway)
It's just another tool to play back music. As long as I have a back-up for any failure, i'm covered (as all pro's should be)
The client doesn't care what I use as long as they get the party they paid for. If I mixed with 8-tracks and it didn't sound like total crap.....they'd be happy.
The thing that most people keep missing is.....You are hung up on sellling Equipment, Music Library size and all the other "Tools" and not selling "YOU".
I have Bose speakers, Denon CD/MP3 players, Peavey Clubmix board and a Toshiba Laptop stuffed with 21K of songs and outputted through a pro sound card.
Do I sell THAT?
NO!
I sell what "I" can do to make the party a success. Stop worrying about what everyone else is doing and stop trying to convert the natives. If they want to change....they will.