Here's A Brain Teaser

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Proformance said:
The toasts may well be 90% more important than anything you are going to do in the remaining time. :) Try not giving them a microphone and see if it only has a 10% impact on the review you get. "...it isn't going to ruin the event" is hardly the standard of care and due diligence a customer wants to hear from their DJ. This is not an unforeseen circumstance.

If you only intend to bring two speakers - then what are you... a rental agent? We know in advance this room has issues - so you resolve that issue by bringing another fill monitor. If you're so cheap that you can't bring a powered Eon or equivalent (which you should already have as backup anyway) then what is your reasoning to nickel and dime what should be simple professional foresight?

The important thing is: what needs to be accomplished? - and can this be done well with a given setup. There are only 8 tables shown which means the guest count lies somewhere between 48 and 80 people, with up to 2-8 more at the head table. No doubt there is more than enough sound to blow everyone away no matter where you put the speakers. Sound is not really the issue in this room - the real issue is the work-flow. If the DJ is hired for his emcee skills and works alone - then his setup needs to be near the front and not on the opposite side of the room where he walks back and forth all night like a bell-hop. If he is an "entertainer" and not just a DJ then he needs to be part of the visual - not hidden away.
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From experience, and not conjecture, for the size of this room, 2 speakers in the back is not an issue. If one chooses to add additional speakers, fine and dandy. And I don't know any DJs who set up aside the head table in the front.
 
steve149 said:
From experience, and not conjecture, for the size of this room, 2 speakers in the back is not an issue. If one chooses to add additional speakers, fine and dandy. And I don't know any DJs who set up aside the head table in the front.
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In that room - one speaker should be enough! ("...it ain't gonna ruin the event.")
I also believe my illustration puts the DJ aside the room - not the head table.

LOL. If you're too shy to setup where people can see you - why not setup out in the hall? :)
Heck, maybe we can hide the band with some pipe & drape or wrap some "DJ Skirts" over their instruments?
 
Proformance said:
In that room - one speaker should be enough! ("...it ain't gonna ruin the event.")
I also believe my illustration puts the DJ aside the room - not the head table.

LOL. If you're too shy to setup where people can see you - why not setup out in the hall? :)
Heck, maybe we can hide the band with some pipe & drape or wrap some "DJ Skirts" over their instruments?
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LOL now that thar is funny! Be careful how you thread my friend. There may be hunters looking for new game! :cheers:
 
Okay, for the record, the room is really NOT big enough that coverage is an issue.
There isn't room, and frankly, here isn't a NEED for extra speakers.
You could talk loudly and be heard.
The bar, by the way, is kinda divided from the main room, I only wanted to show where it was in my diagram. Anything on THAT side of of the diagram is unusable space. And I'm too lazy to get specific.
And, yes, Pro...it is customary for half of the people at tables to have the sound at their back.
(and to have to turn to see the person toasting, or see the the b/g dance, or watch the cake cutting)
It's kinda expected with round tables.
So I apologize for not having specific dimensions. It was a question of general speaker placement, and not an issue of of optimum sound performance.
The gig is done. I will post pics in a gig log that should explain more.
 
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Ausumm said:
Okay, for the record, the room is really NOT big enough that coverage is an issue.
There isn't room, and frankly, here isn't a NEED for extra speakers.
You could talk loudly and be heard.
The bar, by the way, is kinda divided from the main room, I only wanted to show where it was in my diagram. Anything on THAT side of of the diagram is unusable space. And I'm too lazy to get specific.
And, yes, Pro...it is customary for half of the people at tables to have the sound at their back.
(and to have to turn to see the person toasting, or see the the b/g dance, or watch the cake cutting)
It's kinda expected with round tables.
So I apologize for not having specific dimensions. It was a question of general speaker placement, and not an issue of of optimum sound performance.
The gig is done. I will post pics in a gig log that should explain more.
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For the recorded - it is not about "having your back to the sound" - the professional answer is ALWAYS having the sound to be perceived as coming from the direction of it's source. The purpose of fill is to increase the perceived transmission. It should not create the sense of the source and it's sound being in two different places.

Not sure why anyone would think "round tables" is an excuse to take shortcuts - people will turn to face the direction of whoever is presenting (and if you are doing your job correctly they should also be standing during a toast. Only the B&G remain seated for this.)
 
Proformance said:
Not sure why anyone would think "round tables" is an excuse to take shortcuts - people will turn to face the direction of whoever is presenting (and if you are doing your job correctly they should also be standing during a toast. Only the B&G remain seated for this.)
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Oh, so you never have toasts after cake cutting? Your generalization is a bit broad there bro.
 
Proformance said:
For the recorded - it is not about "having your back to the sound" - the professional answer is ALWAYS having the sound to be perceived as coming from the direction of it's source.

So, I was supposed to put speakers BEHIND the head tables? Are you suggesting that I should always put a speaker near the head table, just so the sound of the speeches can be perceived as coming from the source? Regardless of the size of the room, or placement of the dance floor? That's ridiculous for this sized room, and it's no where near the dance floor. That would not have helped the audience to hear the speeches any better. The only purpose that would serve is to annoy the bride and groom.

The purpose of fill is to increase the perceived transmission. It should not create the sense of the source and it's sound being in two different places.

I think most people at a reception just wanna HEAR what is being said. I accomplished that.

Not sure why anyone would think "round tables" is an excuse to take shortcuts - people will turn to face the direction of whoever is presenting (and if you are doing your job correctly they should also be standing during a toast. Only the B&G remain seated for this.)

Round tables AS AN EXCUSE? My job was to provide dance music and allow people to hear speeches. I accomplised that, too. I'm not sure how I was cutting corners. The actual speeches lasted 5 minutes TOPS. I should reconfigure my sound for that? I should bring more speakers for that?
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Oh, did I mention the best man, who paid for my services, is a sound engineer for the concert production company I work for? And his father, who was also at the reception, has been doing it for more than 40-years. Funny that neither of THEM had any comments or complaints.
You are WAY overthinkig this, dude.
 
Okay, here are some pics.
Sorry that there are not more of the entire room, perhaps it would have settled a few of the disputes.
In all honesty, this room IS what it IS.
I have played it many times, and it always works out.
Like the old saying, "It aint charming, but it works..."
The gig is over. I did what I did.
And next time I play this room I'll do it again.

IMG_1652.jpgIMG_1644.jpgIMG_1645 (800x600).jpgIMG_1646 (600x800).jpg

And here's what was truly unique about this evening.
The father of the bride stops me and says, "You work for WZZO radio, right?"
1- He tells me that he is the guy who sold his house to the DJ who does the morning show on our station.
2- He goes on to say that he and the DJ were both members of a local Drum and Bugle corps.
Just so happens that my sister was also in the very same corps.
3- As he is telling me about it, his sister walks up (bride's aunt) and she tells me that the guy who was the DJ at her wedding, worked at WZZO. Wants to know if I knew a "Mike Something or other.."
I say, "Mike FOXX???"....and she lights up and realizes that it's ME! 26 years later. Now we all feel old.
Three major coincidences at he same wedding, all within 15 minutes.

IMG_1648 (800x600).jpg
 
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Yeahhhh Give Mike a big hand folks he knocked it out of the Park and I won a $20.00 bet here that said we would not see pics of the room! Mike you know that you were going to either set up one way or the way you were told. No problem with that here. That was your Gig and the Bride was Happy and all that hullabaloo etc. My question for you is..... were you REALLY asking for suggestions?
You yourself said and I quote:
"Okay, here are some pics.
Sorry that there are not more of the entire room, perhaps it would have settled a few of the disputes."
Now, why didn't you? Ran out of film or something? The most decent thing to do was post some pics of the whole room, 4 pics/vantage points instead of 3 shots in the same direction. You really played us, didn't you? Once I saw that there were no dimensions on the diagram I smelled a rat. Here comes the pats on the back!
 
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Mike .. well done. Don't bother with posting any more room pics .. You'll be second guessed to death.
 
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Canute, you are a piece of work.
(Make sure you post how all you did was comment, and everyone else started attacking you.)
When I last posted Thursday, this thread was still just a few guys offering their opinions. And you'll note on that post, I stated that I usually setup as most of the people suggested. (remember the arrows?)
Or, as you so ridiculously called it "the way I was told" to set it up.
Yes, I was really asking for suggestions. Why else would I bother? What OTHER reason would I have for starting a thread? For the life of me, I cannot think of what you're getting at.
When I came back to post the pics, I saw all of the crap that had accumulated, and I was HOPING that the pictures would end the stupidity over a simple question. Judging by your response, I guess it didn't. I didn't take the pictures Friday night to serve you or anyone else. I DID, however, take pictures of the way I placed the speakers. Considering I didn't know how far off kilter the thread had gone, I would have no reason to take pictures of the rest of the room as "evidence".
Oh yeah...I didn't give dimensions because I didn't KNOW the dimesions. How friggin' obvious is that? Sorry, I forgot my tape measure. Again, the thread was simply to see if someone had a better plan, than the one I had followed in the past for this very unusual room.

The rat you smelled? I played you? REALLY? Again, what was hoping to accomplish?
Are you saying I concocted this devious evil plan just to make you look like a fool?
If so, judging by your last post, it must have worked!
 
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Ausumm said:
Canute, you are a piece of work.
(Make sure you post how all you did was comment, and everyone else started attacking you.)
When I last posted Thursday, this thread was still just a few guys offering their opinions. And you'll note on that post, I stated that I usually setup as most of the people suggested. (remember the arrows?)
Or, as you so ridiculously called it "the way I was told" to set it up.
Yes, I was really asking for suggestions. Why else would I bother? What OTHER reason would I have for starting a thread? For the life of me, I cannot think of what you're getting at.Then why are you upset that others chimed in to give their opinions? What else did you expect?
When I came back to post the pics, I saw all of the crap that had accumulated, and I was HOPING that the pictures would end the stupidity over a simple question. What crap? I really think you were looking for someone to rubber stamp the way you were going to set things up! Judging by your response, I guess it didn't. I didn't take the pictures Friday night to serve you or anyone else. I DID, however, take pictures of the way I placed the speakers. Considering I didn't know how far off kilter the thread had gone, Thats a lie because by the time you posted in #24, Proformance and I had already joined the conversation. So go fool someone else. I would have no reason to take pictures of the rest of the room as "evidence". Nobody said anything about evidence, we wanted to satisfy our minds!
Oh yeah...I didn't give dimensions because I didn't KNOW the dimesions. You are a Professional DJ didn't you say, or am I mistaken? I would think after all these years of running speaker cables you could take an educated guess. You mean to tell me you can't look at a room and gauge the dimensions 50ft, 100ft, etc? That is a lame excuse! How friggin' obvious is that? Sorry, I forgot my tape measure. Again, the thread was simply to see if someone had a better plan, than the one I had followed in the past for this very unusual room.

The rat you smelled? I played you? REALLY? Again, what was hoping to accomplish?
Are you saying I concocted this devious evil plan just to make you look like a fool?
If so, judging by your last post, it must have worked!
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First, you did not make me look like no fool. You wasted my time, yes! I thought you were serious. You could have said then or after the Gig "Thanks for all the inputs but this is how I finally did it."

I just wanted to see the room for curiosity sake. It would have been too late to do otherwise to make you change the setup. won't it? However, not seeing the room makes me wonder...where were you set up, in the Hallway? See, there is no real way to believe anything because you perked everyone's interest and was not decent enough to show the after pics. I did not see anyone, including me, demanding that you setup the way we suggested.

Y'all ask for discourse and then when you get it you turn around and want to get mad with some other's opinions? Why ask for it in the first case. This is not an attack on you, even though I am sure some will claim it as such to get their sympathy votes and have others jump on the bandwagon. It is simply a voicing of displeasure for the amateurish handling by you of a very simple discourse. Anyway, carry on! I'm done!
 
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Ausumm said:
Not sure why anyone would think "round tables" is an excuse to take shortcuts - people will turn to face the direction of whoever is presenting (and if you are doing your job correctly they should also be standing during a toast. Only the B&G remain seated for this.)

Round tables AS AN EXCUSE? My job was to provide dance music and allow people to hear speeches. I accomplised that, too. I'm not sure how I was cutting corners. The actual speeches lasted 5 minutes TOPS. I should reconfigure my sound for that? I should bring more speakers for that?
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If you were using round tables, you were cutting corners. You should have used square tables .. then things would have been ok.

;)
 
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Great job Mike! Next time smile for the camera...like your avatar pic!

Canute...just go away...please. You're making this place a little less fun dude...chill out!
 
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Ausumm said:
Oh, did I mention the best man, who paid for my services, is a sound engineer for the concert production company I work for? And his father, who was also at the reception, has been doing it for more than 40-years. Funny that neither of THEM had any comments or complaints.
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You didn't mention a lot of things - like dimensions, ceiling height, entry doors, or the fact that you were looking for some kind of approval rather than actual opinions about how sound issues are professionally addressed. Most of us gave you ideas anyway that can be applied to lots of circumstances.

If all you wanted was a pat on the back - then why all the subterfuge about a "brain teaser?"

How many of you guys blow this same kind of smoke when dealing with customers? It sure would explain the disconnect so many DJs seem to have with people during the sales process.

- - - Updated - - -

ittigger said:
If you were using round tables, you were cutting corners. You should have used square tables .. then things would have been ok.
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I have an up-charge for each edge of the table, which is why I have such an issue with rounds.
 
Proformance said:
I have an up-charge for each edge of the table, which is why I have such an issue with rounds.
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From a quantum perspective, you'd have an infinite number of edges with a round table, so ka-ching ..
 
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